Discussion in 'Super-World' started by Dr. Fate, Jun 13, 2006.
Fleischer wins 'cause of the stunning art. However, Timm's work is great and already classic.
The Fleischer Superman Cartoons Arrive On YouTube [Video]
I agree. There will NEVER be a better non-comic book interpretation than the Fleischer toons IMO, only second to STM.
Bruce Timm seemed like he didn't know what to do with Superman. It almost seems like he doesn't get the character. You can't blame the bad parts of that series on writers as THEY HAD PAUL DINI!
In today's world? On a mass release nationwide, the GA wouldn't understand the racism and the political implications, even though many of those shows were WW2 themed. The Liberals would whine, at least in America.
Thread needs a poll, but...
Fleischer. Then, now, and forever. Fleischer.
Fleischer, for me Golden Age Superman is still the best, DC should bring back the imaginative dilemas and moral from there.
I hated several things about the Timm/Dini version.
1) Brainiac from Krypton.
2) the character designs. I think Timm's original designs were better. The final products for Lois, Perry and Jimmy were okay, but Superman was too blocky/bulky IMO.
3) the tone was too light in a lot of episodes.
Where can i see his original designs for Superman: The Animated Series? I'm intrigued by what his other ideas were.
Doesn't Ultimate Spider-Man have Paul Dini too?
That is true. I guess its all about the vision of a particular series.
Fleischer. STAS is very overrated. Fleischer, however, is timeless and incredible.
Incredible yes, but TIMELESS?
I am quite struck that you say this.
Not really. Very much set in a 1940's world (THE CITY OF METROPOLIS SHOULD FOREVER AND ALWAYS STAY THIS WAY) and the last 8 episodes are very much centered around WW2.
It's still aging very well and the city, while from the 40s, still looks futuristic and if one didn't know he could think it was set in modern times
Timm's has nothing on Fleischer's.
If anything Bruce Timm was probably a bigger fanboy than Paul Dini, in some interviews of the animated series Timm talks about getting fanboy angry at first due to the changes to Brainiac coming from Krypton, but that then he started to like the idea, so most changes to from the mythos probably came from Dini and the writers.
While not on the level of Fleischer, Superman: The Animated Series really deserves recognition, very well done cartoon, also had an interesting look.
While I still think Fleischer's series was technically better... it was limited. It had no mythos to fall back on the way STAS did.
Now, if I had done STAS and had complete control, I would have gone much more traditional with Brainiac, made Lex a businessman/mad scientist hybrid... not used Lobo at all, introduced Mongol, not relied so heavily on The 4th World, used more gangsters/Intergang and made it look more like BTAS.
Cut on the 4th World? If anything i would have dedicated an entire season to that. I wouldn't have changed Brainiac at all, i've started to prefer the cartoon version, it ties nicelly into the plot and the original version isn't that great.
The fact that the Fleischer cartoons didn't use much of the mythos is actually a streght IMO, it shows that you don't need to use superpowered villains in order to tell a compelling story.
I do agree with you here.
yeah, the fleischer cartoons are fun, epic, and while the stories are simplistic, they get the job done.
It's the simplicity that makes these such a treasure.
As amazing as the animation is in the Fleischer toons, that's all it is. Great animation. Stone me all you want, and call me an uncultured swine but I can't watch more than a few of those Fleischer episodes without getting bored. They can be repetitive and they lack any sort of dramatic storytelling. It's just simple adventure tales and while that is fine and great for the time it still fails to hold me attention after a while. I think people tend to overrate things like it simply due to it's legacy. I will never question the craft of the Fleischer cartoons. Really, I wont. They do look AMAZING but there is no comparison to actual story and character building. Timm all the way.
Fleischer simply because I prefer the animation technique they used and because to me the golden age superman is a better representation than the boy scout super clumsy Kent.
Now imagine a Fleischer style cartoon with the Bat-man from JL: The new frontier
While I do agree with you about lack of dramatic storytelling, it was the tone (serious pulp/noir) that set it apart from anything else Superman has been since. It was a Superman that was tough and slightly grim that took no prisoners. He wasn't as lighthearted as what they gave us in STAS, Ruby Spears version or anything else. Sorry it doesn't hold your attention.
Stories are well done with barelly any dialogue, it makes use of other storytelling devices, that's why it has aged well and is such a classic. Tone was great too.