Batman Returns: Scene by Scene

[JohnnyGobbs]

You'll notice there are also a number of other 'freak' circus people down in the sewers with Cobblepot along with the penguins. I'm guessing they are the ones who literally raised him, this is backed up more by the scene in which Bruce is looking over old newspaper articles in Gotham and one says something to the effect of "Circus freaks living in Gotham"...but the sewer penguins are who he felt most attached to.

Cool. Thanks for the answer ALP. That's more or less what I assumed. It's just that so many people tend to refer to this film as the one where The Penguin is literally 'raised by penguins' (suggesting something similar to the way Mowgli was raised by wolves in the Jungle Book). However, I think you're right, and I can imagine The Organ Grinder in particular being The Penguin's main 'carer' for want of a better word.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

You'll notice there are also a number of other 'freak' circus people down in the sewers with Cobblepot along with the penguins. I'm guessing they are the ones who literally raised him, this is backed up more by the scene in which Bruce is looking over old newspaper articles in Gotham and one says something to the effect of "Circus freaks living in Gotham"...but the sewer penguins are who he felt most attached to.

Right. The movie does not say "raised by penguins," and, although it's not unreasonable to assume that, it's much more reasonable and logical to go with the notion that the members of the circus raised him. His relationship to them comes off more familial and less like just a gang leader.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

It's also automatically clear that this is a practically fairytale vision of Gotham with closer parallels to the satirical, intentionally absurd world of Edward Scissorhands, than the more prosaic hyper-realism of Gotham circa 1989.

Batman Returns does evoke feelings closer to Edward Scissorhands than Batman. I don't labor under some belief that, despite what he says, Burton was exorcising some deep childhood demons with those two works, but he clearly still had some things to say post-Scissorhands about fairy tales, about Christmas, about abandonment and isolation, about being an outcast that he's working out in Batman Returns.

The decision to focus the film's prologue on The Penguin's birth clues the audience into where Burton's dramatic interest (and even sympathies) lie. Whilst it may be making too fine a point to suggest that The Penguin is as much the film's protagonist as Bruce Wayne/Batman, the film makes no apologies for concerning itself with Batman, 'the outcast', and consequently, the various traits he shares with his fellow outsiders, The Penguin and Catwoman, as opposed to Batman, 'the hero'.

I can see the viewpoint of "Batman doesn't get anything to do, and the villains steal the show" in this way: Batman does not get his own plotline, and he doesn't have the most obvious development. His role is to be reflected in those villains, to bounce off of them. This is not a case of The Hero vs. The Villain(s), this is absolutely a three-ring circus; the leads are Batman, The Penguin, and Catwoman.

It's also interesting to ponder Daniel Waters original draft for Batman Returns, in which the deliverer of that line, Max Shreck was initially conceived as The Penguin's elder brother (a far cry from the street-smart self-made man he eventually appeared to be). This may have been one coincidence too far, (contrived back-history associations between lead characters being a particular bug-bear amongst comic-book movie audiences); however, it would have further emphasised the parallels and differences between the film's central male villains, Max Shreck, the socially 'respected monster', and The Penguin, the ostracised 'bird-man' of the sewers.

That is an angle I'm glad they lost, because it would have been one parallel/coincidence too far - an interesting parallel, but it would have been too much, in a story that's busy enough already.

Other fans have recognised the ambiguity of the moment in which a barely toddler Oswald viciously reaches beyond his cage to grab and apparently throttle the family cat (a witty piece of foreshadowing for a certain avian/feline relationship later in the film), suggesting that Oswald may have been inherently evil, and that his parents' drastic actions, although entirely barbaric, were nevertheless, a response to their only child's inhuman behaviour, and not his bizarre physiognomy alone.

I think there was some response to that incident with the cat (and perhaps other similar occurrences we didn't see) involved there, but the overriding reason was the weight of the terror and shame that their son was inexplicably born a freak.

I always like to speculate how and why Oswald Cobblepot became so deformed. Sure, there's a possibility of in-breeding bearing in mind how bizarre his parents looked, but I always like to think (and I know it's a stretch) that Oswald's deformities might have been linked to the toxic waste Max Shreck had been releasing into Gotham's environment. Shreck seems to be a good couple of decades older than either Bruce or Oswald (who are both implied to be about 33 years of age during the main chunk of the story), so it's feasible that Shreck may already have been involved in some form of highly polluting business venture prior to Oswalds birth...at least that's what I like to think.

I have truly never once considered why Oswald was born the way he was (I wonder if Tim Burton or Daniel Waters ever have), but I like that thought.
​

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

That is an angle I'm glad they lost, because it would have been one parallel/coincidence too far - an interesting parallel, but it would have been too much, in a story that's busy enough already.

Agreed. The Max/Oswald sibling connection would have been an interesting angle, but like you suggest, one coincidence too far, and one reason why Daniel Waters' final draft for Batman Returns, co-written by Wesley Strick, is a better piece of screen-writing than his original occasionally cluttered screenplay.

I think there was some response to that incident with the cat (and perhaps other similar occurrences we didn't see) involved there, but the overriding reason was the weight of the terror and shame that their son was inexplicably born a freak.

Once again, agreed. Although I do think there is some scope for debate as to whether Oswald was 'born evil', Burton has always demonstred an affinity for the 'outsider', and in view of the particularly visual nature of his films, characters whose particular physicalities mark them out as different from mainstream society. All of which does suggest that Tucker and Esther Cobblepot had infanticide on their mind from the very moment the deformed Oswald entered the world.

So whilst The Penguin does commit some truly heinous acts throughout the course of Batman Returns he neverthless remains a tragic character worthy of eliciting some degree of sympathy, and as Danny DeVito himself speculated, it's tempting to imagine how different a person Oswald might have become had his parents loved him instead of rejecting him outright for his physical deformities.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

So whilst The Penguin does commit some truly heinous acts throughout the course of Batman Returns he neverthless remains a tragic character worthy of eliciting some degree of sympathy, and as Danny DeVito himself speculated, it's tempting to imagine how different a person Oswald might have become had his parents loved him instead of rejecting him outright for his physical deformities.

Absolutely. I personally can't go so far as to say I think The Penguin was born evil, because I don't think it works in a way as grandiose as that. We have instincts before we have any sort of morality or sense of right v. wrong. Oswald seizing the family cat shows his instincts to be fairly gruesome, but rather than making any sort of effort to guide their child, the Cobblepots toss him away. I have remarks on The Penguin's sometimes-sympathetic nature that I'll save for later, but the question of "What if?" - What if I was a straight businessman? What if I was a respected, even feared, crime boss? - is an important part of the character, and it's given more of a fantasy bent this time.

 

[ALP]

I don't think he was born evil. A freak yes, but not necessarily evil. Being abandoned and physically deformed is enough to make him resent life itself. Kidnapping the children is the one thing that truly made him despicable...other than that I see him working as very sad and pathetic but still forgivable. He is the antagonistic form of the Elephant Man- and we know Burton/Waters was inspired by that film to some degree. If anything, one of the reasons I am not as in touch with Burton's newer work is that for the most part(other than Sweeney) he is lacking the perennial sympathetic outsiders that use to fill his work(although I also understand his change as a director, you can't expect someone to be exactly the same decade after decade).

Batman Returns is the perfect example of Burton's old mold. I love the idea of the Bat, the Cat, and the Penguin all working as a trinity that fits together. Unlike the first, this film is definitely a gothic fairytale. Though many changes were made, Batman and Catwoman both fit the core of their comic book character whereas the Penguin was the one character whose core was changed from his source material. Burton and Waters made him into their rendition of Frankenstein's monster.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

3. Tree Lighting

(Running time: 0:05:29 - 0:07:07)

The Rundown
A paperboy hawks the latest Gotham Globe, with a front-page story on the mysterious "penguin man of the sewers," as the Ice Princess performs the annual lighting of the Gotham City Christmas tree.

The Review
Here we're given our first good look at Bo Welch's interpretation of Gotham City, starting with a striking matte-painting establishing shot. A good deal has already been said in this thread about the style of art direction in Batman Returns, but I always find it a fascinating area, the gothic, fascist, neo-Expressionistic aesthetic of the film, an approach that goes beyond just the production design. The Gotham of Welch and his team is 100% successful: It feels more or less like the same world we were brought into in the previous film, while being something fresh. It's any and every American dystopia, textured and decaying, but still cleaner than in the last film, as if trying to present the veneer of safe prosperity. It merges the neo-Expressionism with the art deco with the distortions of then-contemporary New York in a fulfilling way.

If I recall correctly, it's Sam Hamm's Batman II script that begins simply-but-properly, "Hell has frozen over." I don't think there was any point where this movie wasn't conceived as being set over Christmas, and certainly I can't imagine it not being so. There's something about Gotham in winter that seems to bring out both the odd beauty and the bleak, cold despair of the city. Batman Returns is one of my Christmas fixtures, along with The Nightmare Before Christmas, Elf, Scrooged, Christmas Vacation, A Christmas Story, and certain Rankin-Bass specials; it's one of those "anti-Christmas movie" Christmas movies, and works as a kind of treacle-cutter after a certain amount of stop-motion sentimentality.

The Rest
Stage 1 of the four-stage Penguin reveal: His gloved flippers are seen clutching the grate, watching as the tree is lit.

 

[returntovoid]

I don't really like Christmas films but I like films with that theme such as A Nightmare Before Christmas, Die Hard and Batman Returns. Yeah, I agree that Bo Welch's Gotham feels like the same world in the first film but it's still feels fresh.

 

[The Joker]

My only complaint was that the bulk of Gotham in Returns is centered around Gotham Square.

 

[Brother Jack]

My only complaint was that the bulk of Gotham in Returns is centered around Gotham Square.

Yeah. We got to see more of the city in the first film while in this it's pretty much just the square. It makes the city feel smaller and less organic.

 

[ALP]

Why is that? Was it intention? We know Burton wanted it to feel more claustrophobic. Or was it because it was all filmed indoors, they were limited? Can't say for sure. But overall, we did not get to see as much as in B'89, I especially would have liked to see more of Wayne Manor. I could never tire of talking about how beautifully designed this film is, shame we didn't get more. Damn the critic who called the movie an 'oil well.' Another big influence in a number of the designs in the film was 1940s locomotives.

I love the establishing shot of Gotham with the camera railing upwards to show a very narrow view of the city. Once more we see Gotham from a skyline, but it is a massive contrast to the wide 'epic' establishing shot in B'89. It goes along with the 'less is more' thing Burton spoke of. I also love the sweeping shot of the Gotham zoo, filled with classic Burton sculptures reminiscent of the ones in Beetlejuice(or is the Zoo shot in another scene, I cannot recall). But indeed the Christmas setting is very well done. I'd love to see another Batman film with Gotham set in the winter, but I'm afraid it would fall short of what we see in Returns.

As for Penguin's flippers, anyone else notice that the Burton Penguin has influenced a number of comics. I'd say the most prominent one is the Penguin in the Long Halloween series who also has sharp teeth and flippers. There's also the Penguin in TAS- although I've never been a big fan of that one.

 

[Cain]

The way I always viewed Gotham was as a peek into the Batman's mind in this flick. Cold, bleak, claustrophobic and seeping with chaos & adventure. With all of the parallel characters to Batman colliding with each other for dominance. Like how one aspect of his personality (being Batman) collides with everything else (having a sense of normalcy) in his mind. Since german expressionism & noir were indeed a big influence it makes sense that Gotham serves as the window into the protagonist's mind frame.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

Damn the critic who called the movie an 'oil well.'

Oh, that's the one Stefan Czapsky refers to on the DVD, right? The critic who said the film looked like it was shot in an inkwell? You know what, I actually kind of agree with that. Obviously it was meant as a negative, but I see it the other way, because there is something inky and rich about the film's color scheme and overall cinematography.

(or is the Zoo shot in another scene, I cannot recall)

I think you're thinking of the big "tour shot" just before Max and The Penguin meet.

As for Penguin's flippers, anyone else notice that the Burton Penguin has influenced a number of comics. I'd say the most prominent one is the Penguin in the Long Halloween series who also has sharp teeth and flippers. There's also the Penguin in TAS- although I've never been a big fan of that one.

Yeah, there were definitely some iterations of The Penguin influenced by Batman Returns. The animated series' Penguin and Catwoman were both visual echoes of the versions in this movie, Catwoman with the blond hair and Penguin with the long, stringy hair and flippers, despite those versions not bearing much resemblance to this movie's takes.

 

[Cain]

The Underground one shot that came out during Battle for the Cowl last year also has the DeVito Penguin sans flippers

 

[The Joker]

Wow, that is the spitting image of DeVito's Penguin.

 

[returntovoid]

I got more things to say about Returns.

What makes DeVito's Penguin more three-dimensional than Nicholson's Joker is that even though this Penguin is a villain, you seem sympathize with him to some degree because he was not born evil but just how his parents treated and threw him into the sewers. I think Michelle Pfeiffer is one of the most beautiful women to play a female comic book character but at the same, it's also a well acted characterization and on-screen portrayals of Elektra, Storm, Jean Grey, Lois Lane, Vicky Vale, Black Widow etc. don't compare in the acting department. When Batman/Bruce doesn't end up with the woman at the end, you can easily shrug off that there was nothing in the relationship and he'll get over her but in Returns you really genuinely feel bad for the fact he doesn't end up with Catwoman/Selina Kyle because of the chemistry/how the relationship is built up.

 

[Cain]

Yeah I always felt Batman/Catwoman in BR was the only genuine live action superhero movie romance by far. So the noirish ending is more effective in all it's Shakespearean glory.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

4. Not Properly Housebroken

(Running time: 0:07:08 – 0:09:20)

The Rundown
Arrogant business mogul Max Shreck proposes the creation of a new power plant to the Mayor, despite the city’s current power surplus. When his meek secretary Selina starts to make a suggestion, he casually demeans her, before his son Chip summons him down to “bring joy to the masses.”

The Review
This scene begins with a distinctive shot panning up at a progressively faster speed to the top of Shreck’s tower, conveying a nice sense of height and immensity. The giant cat head decorating the top of the building, the logo for Shreck’s corporate empire, beyond being a cute link to the upcoming guise of his secretary, is a smart satirical detail about the oh-so-adorable icons that are frequently attached to companies with a larger, more insidious reach than they would want anyone to acknowledge.

By this point, after he’s done so many movie comedies and hosted seven episodes of Saturday Night Live, it’s hard to take Christopher Walken completely seriously, but he is great as Max Shreck, because he dominates a scene by going not too far, but exactly as far as he needs to as this calculating, Trump-ish megalomaniac. The Walken-isms can be distracting occasionally, but that’s why you bring in Christopher Walken, for his odd cadences and utterly unique delivery (“That’s not growth, it’s…a mild swelling!” for example.) He speechifies a bit when describing to the Mayor what Gotham would be like without this new power plant, and that sincere insincerity is a real through-line over his performance.

Michelle Pfeiffer’s Selina Kyle is introduced as the quintessential abused secretary, and her shots in particular are framed in such an evocative way. The first is wider, and she’s right in the center, showing us immediately that she’s not even a cog in this machine, she’s in that place of utmost awkwardness, where even speaking up and having any sort of confident identity is not an option. The next shot is a little closer, but only to give us a tighter look at her embarrassment, which she’s learned to put up with. Her performance is fascinating to watch unfold, beginning as this more comic mousy character.

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

3. Tree Lighting
(Running time: 0:05:29 - 0:07:07)​

Some critics have rather churlishly taken Batman Returns to task for offering what appears to be a completely different Gotham City to the one presented in Burton's first Batman film. Since Returns was never intended as a direct sequel to its forerunner this is a somewhat moot point. However, other than the fact that both films are clearly focused on distinct regions of the sprawling, chaotic metropolis, and the unfortunate reality that necessitated an entirely new vision of Gotham following Anton Furst's tragic death in 1991 (irrespective of Burton's right, not least as a expressionistic, non-literal artist, to explore fresh takes on established characters), it is surely not an inconceivable stretch to imagine a Gotham that has dramatically changed since the emergence of Batman, and consequent demise of Jack Napier, Boss Grissom and the rest of its underworld fraternity. This is an apparently regenerated, revitalised city where criminal kingpins hide behind slick corporate facades and regularly hobnob with respected public officials.

Burton often if not always employs his production design to reflect the psychological state of mind and mood of his characters; just as Furst's Gotham evoked a grimy, amoral, crime-ridden society that reflected the callous, materialistic ethos of the 1980s, Bob Welch's Gotham, focused primarily around a civic square highly reminiscent of New York City's Rockefeller Center, symbolises a community that is at once seemingly safer and more prosperous, but also clearly stifled by an oppressive, patriarchal social order akin to both 1930s Fascist Germany and late 1940s/early 1950s McCarthyist America. Monolithic statues of defiant and idealised male figures peer down on Gotham Square, whilst an ostensibly benign yet rather creepy corporate mascot resembling Felix the Cat (or should that be 'fat cat') overlooks the entrance to the city's capitalist hub, 'Shreck's' department store, rendering a look and feel to Gotham that could be described as an unholy fascist/capitalist amalgamation of Albert Speer meets Ronald McDonald. In any case, symbols are clearly prevalent in this world, even beyond the totemic identities undertaken by the film's three central characters.

It's not clear whether Burton loves or loathes Christmas, that most mainstream, yet to some (including Batman Returns' three lead characters), paradoxically alienating of holidays, but it seems that half of his films are set either explicitly or via the suggestion of a mid-wintry setting, during this period, and more often than not, it is seemingly his purpose to lampoon many of the season's customs or at least use it as a backdrop for some particularly malign narrative developments.

The Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony is presided over by the beautiful but brainless Ice Princess, the film's second most prominent female character and by extension the key example of the type of women against which the initially subjugated and later liberated Selina Kyle/Catwoman is defined. Both women are conventionally attractive, but whilst the glamorous and voluptuous but dim-witted Ice Princess is apparently beloved by Gotham for representing a decidedly pre-feminist ideal of womanhood, the at first seemingly dowdy and repressed but genuinely bright Selina Kyle is, as the following scene will demonstrate, at best ignored, more often scorned for daring to assert any intelligence in this patriarchal, chauvinist society.

Finally, this scene also provides us with our first albeit brief glimpse of Batman Returns' other social pariah, The Penguin who is only partially glimpsed from behind the bars of a sewer grating, literally and figuratively excluded from the most conventional and establishment of social festivities, much in the same way he was trapped behind his cage-like cot as an infant 33 Christmases ago.

Additional Comments:​

- Never one to miss the opportunity for a spot of semi-irony, Burton has Alfred snootily dismiss the "Gotham Globe's" latest 'Penguin sighting' headline as mere 'rubbish' just before he literally steps over a grating concealing the 'mythological' beast.​

 

[The Joker]

I'm a little confused, are both Johnny and Homer contributing to this?

 

[Cain]

I'm a little confused, are both Johnny and Homer contributing to this?

Yep it seems that way, better for the thread IMO to have 2 distinct views.

 

[The Joker]

I agree. Although Johnny, a suggestion for you: You should also had a pic of your own to compliment your pieces.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

I'm a little confused, are both Johnny and Homer contributing to this?

Well, yeah, I started the thread and I'm moving it from one scene to the next, and whoever wants to contributes.

 

[ALP]

The design of Max Shreck's corporate building was based on the Tower of Babel in Fritz Lang's Metropolis. You'll also notice in Shreck's office are photos of him along with different celebrities including Arnold Schwarzenegger who by complete coincidence will later become Mr. Freeze. Anyway, Max Shreck is the single greatest villain ever created specifically for a comic book film. I have read that Shreck was originally going to appear in Batman TAS only to be thrown out in favor of Maroni to be thrown out in favor of Rupert Thorne. But here in BR, Shreck is of the Burton aesthetic as filtered through a 1940s industrialist complete with wiry grey hair, spats, and bold stripe suits just one notch below the flamboyance of Beetlejuice. He's a corporate raider and a devil in disguise. Christopher Walken is just too good.

I think Michelle Pfeiffer's Selina Kyle is one of the most interesting we have ever been presented with, films or otherwise. She's shy, clumsy, and almost catatonic. The boss-employee line is set right off the bat. She has little to say when her boss immediately shoots down a suggestion. I even sense a bit of misogyny from Shreck which is further proved later in the film. Pfeiffer is every bit just as fascinating as Walken/Shreck if not more...

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

I'm a little confused, are both Johnny and Homer contributing to this?

This is Homer's thread but I just thought I'd add my own thoughts based on his template. Hopefully, our respective comments can stimulate discussion and occasionally some debate on the film.

I agree. Although Johnny, a suggestion for you: You should also had a pic of your own to compliment your pieces.

I'd like to. My disc drive is not working at the moment so I'm currently unable to take screencaps, but as soon as it's up and working I will add my own pics. I must say though that Homer always does a brilliant job of finding exactly the right screencap to represent a particular scene.