Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlin return to save rock and roll!!!

[PhotoJones]

I also mentioned Stevie Ray, Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen. Why you gotta fixate on Joe and Steve? Some more for your delicate palate: Jeff Beck, Clapton, Jeff Healey, Dave Hole, Jay Hooks, Eric Johnson, Robert Cray, Albert Collins, Albert King, Colin James, Tommy Iommi, Zakk Wylde, Prince, Angus Young, Santana, Frampton, Jimmy Page, John Butcher, Billy Gibbons, B.B. King.....the list of incredibly gifted guitarists that stand head and shoulders above 99.9% of the guy making "pop" music (and I would include Iha and Corgan in that list) is almost endless. That's the only point I was trying to make. The artistry of the guitar virtuoso...hell, musicianship in general...just doesn't have a focus on it that much these days, unfortunately. And bands like Linkin' Park, Papa Roach and, yes, the Pumpkins, aren't doing a whole lot to change that, IMHO.

BTW, I've seen both Satriani and Vai live in concert and you'd be surprised how much soul they bring to their live performances, Vai in particular. And that's coming from a guy who lives for the blues.

jag

I focused on Vai and Satriani because those guys stick out like sore thumbs compared to Hendrix and Stevie Ray.

I've also seen them play live (G3), and like I said they're very good with technical aspects of guitar playing. It's not even music, it's like a display of math skills. It's all show offy to me, and just not my bag. I can recognize the skill, but it's the same way a computer is "skilled".

Coming from a guy that "lives for the blues", I'm surprised to see you lump Vai and Satriani in with everyone else.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I'm sure his boyfriend appreciates that talent as well.

jag

lol, oh yeah.

 

[jaguarr]

I focused on Vai and Satriani because those guys stick out like sore thumbs compared to Hendrix and Stevie Ray.

I've also seen them play live (G3), and like I said they're very good with technical aspects of guitar playing. It's not even music, it's like a display of math skills. It's all show offy to me, and just not my bag. I can recognize the skill, but it's the same way a computer is "skilled".

Coming from a guy that "lives for the blues", I'm surprised to see you lump Vai and Satriani in with everyone else.

I just inferred that I wasn't "lumping them in with everyone else" and that I was just giving examples of guys who could actually, REALLY play the guitar in the face of guys like Iha and Corgan who I consider inferior on the instrument. Why does that point escape you? Am I typing in Latin?

jag

 

[PhotoJones]

I just inferred that I wasn't "lumping them in with everyone else" and that I was just giving examples of guys who could actually, REALLY play the guitar in the face of guys like Iha and Corgan who I consider inferior on the instrument. Why does that point escape you? Am I typing in Latin?

jag

Originally, you listed Vai and Satriani with Hendrix, Stevie Ray and Van Halen. I pointed out how two are not like the others. I also stated my own opinions.

Am I typing in Latin?

 

[jaguarr]

Originally, you listed Vai and Satriani with Hendrix, Stevie Ray and Van Halen. I pointed out how two are not like the others. I also stated my own opinions.

Am I typing in Latin?

Ahhh, but I was not listing a "Name your favorite guitar virtuosos who make great music" list, I was listing "Name some guitarists who are virtuosos in comparison with guitarists who are NOT such as Iha, Corgan, or the slags from Linkin Park and Papa Roach". So, yeah...for the purposes of THAT list, they fit perfectly well.

Vini vidi vici.

jag

 

[PhotoJones]

Ahhh, but I was not listing a "Name your favorite guitar virtuosos who make great music" list, I was listing "Name some guitarists who are virtuosos in comparison with guitarists who are NOT such as Iha, Corgan, or the slags from Linkin Park and Papa Roach". So, yeah...for the purposes of THAT list, they fit perfectly well.

Vini vidi vici.

jag

Right. But that's not what I was replying to, and that's not what I said. I never questioned their talents. I saw your post, and those two names jumped out at me. So I responded with a comment.

This is ridiculous, anyway. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone that James Iha is a great quitarist.

Agree to disagree about Vai and Satriani, and move on?

 

[jaguarr]

Right. But that's not what I was replying to, and that's not what I said. I never questioned their talents. I saw your post, and those two names jumped out at me. So I responded with a comment.

This is ridiculous, anyway. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone that James Iha is a great quitarist.

Agree to disagree about Vai and Satriani, and move on?

Just felt like you were trying to bust my balls over a nit-pick detail that wasn't really even related to the point I was trying to make. That's why the thrash. I can certainly drop it. Go listen to some Kenny G and chill out.

jag

 

[That-Guy]

edit

 

[That-Guy]

edit

 

[That-Guy]

Ugh... does the Hype kick anyone else out EVERY single time they try to post here?

 

[PhotoJones]

Just felt like you were trying to bust my balls over a nit-pick detail that wasn't really even related to the point I was trying to make. That's why the thrash. I can certainly drop it. Go listen to some Kenny G and chill out.

jag

*shakes head*

*sigh*

 

[jaguarr]

Dude, compared to the guitarists I'm comparing Corgan and Iha to, they ARE inferior players. It's not to say that they flat out suck and can't play for sh1t, but they're hardly of the caliber of players I have much more respect for. That's all I'm saying.

jag

 

[PhotoJones]

Ugh... does the Hype kick anyone else out EVERY single time they try to post here?

The Hype is having some massive problems of late. But don't worry, it'll be "fixed soon".

 

[jaguarr]

*shakes head*

*sigh*

Haha! He does that circular breathing, dude. It's teh sexay.

jag

 

[sinewave]

ok, I just heard the new song.
and you know what? all you Billy Corgan detractors/haters can go straight to take a vacation, a lavish one, you're right.
I've been defending that shiftless emo-**** for the last decade, because "c'mon, he might be **** human being but he's a good musician and producer"
**** all that, he just took everything that I could tolerate about his music, I even overlooked "machina the machines of god" based on the strenght of Gish and the promise that this Glory would once return.
I should've known that a guy that couldn't make a cool/listenable record with Dave ****ing Pajo of all people was a megalomaniac on the path to sweet, sweet self destruction.
the new song blows in ways previously uninmagined by the Likes of that dude that wrote the Twister movie.
this was a class 10/ finger of god ****pile that I'm ashamed to even recall, If i had a trap door on my skullcap I'd scrub out the part of my brain that holds this information with a goddammed brillo pad.
I mean, I thought "hey, chamberlin still around...can't be that bad can it?"

oh, it can, it can very much be that bad and worse, oh, for you Old hair-metal dudes, one of the guys from Scorpion is going to be on the live band for this Album so dig out your sleeveless Whitesnake shirts and enjoy.

in sumation.

**** you Corgan, you blew it up you bastard, damn you, damn you to hellllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!

do you remember when chamberlain, kim deal's sister kelley and sabastian bach started a band together in the late 90's? what a supergroup!

LOL, yeah, "well thought out" to you means referencing Led Zepelin whne mention Corgan, congrats you can now get a music journalist job in 1993, hope it goes swell.
"a little bit all over the place"? no, it stays in the SAME place, a boring place. there's nothing there anymore.
even Chamberlin who normally knows how to salvage a song is not up to snuff on this one.
and seriously? you're saying that the new SP is good because it's better than Papa ****ing Roach?
my gawd! have our musical standards sunk so low that now we will bow not to something good, but to something "not quite that ****ty"

No thanks bro. enjoy Corgan's three hour tour into prog-rock mediocrity land, Pearl Jam awaits eagerly for some company.
the fact that you mention the single 2 best SP albums and say that this sounds like a mix of them just, just confuses the hell out of me, this sounds like Zwan / Friends and Enemies of modern music if it sounds like anything at all.

but it still puzzles me that your whole argument for how SP is, was that Papa Roach is real ****ty.

that like, makes no sense.

P.S.

you know very little about music, stop making it evident.

P.P.S.

No seriously, shut up.

P.P.P.S.

on second thought, keep going, I want to see how awesome the new SP single is when you compare it to Shabba Ranks 1991 hit "mr. lover man"

please, leave poor shabba out of this. i'm begging you.... SHABBA!!!!!!

 

[Mr Sparkle]

do you remember when chamberlain, kim deal's sister kelley and sabastian bach started a band together in the late 90's? what a supergroup!

"the last hard men" I think they mercifully never recorded anything did they?
:fear:

please, leave poor shabba out of this. i'm begging you.... SHABBA!!!!!!

a man ahead of his time, if there ever was one.

 

[jaguarr]

do you remember when chamberlain, kim deal's sister kelley and sabastian bach started a band together in the late 90's? what a supergroup!

They did? I didn't know that. I....didn't WANT to know that.

jag

 

[sinewave]

"the last hard men" I think they mercifully never recorded anything did they?
:fear:

that's right! i think i read that all the songs they recorded were finally released in '01. i'm sure you can find them on e-bay. happy hunting!

They did? I didn't know that. I....didn't WANT to know that.

jag

in that case, you're welcome.

 

[PhotoJones]

Two years ago, Kim Deal was my New Year's Eve kiss.

 

[sinewave]

Two years ago, Kim Deal was my New Year's Eve kiss.

so how's your herpes these days? a mouth full of sores ain't no fun.

 

[PhotoJones]

so how's your herpes these days? a mouth full of sores ain't no fun.

Hahaha! t:

My mouth is fine, thank you very much.

 

[dmor173]

cant believe all of the corgan hate.

1979, Zero, perfect, ava adore, bullet with butterfly wings, untitled....

Hell I even like ZWAN. thought they were awesome.


I remember one night in high school when i was little bit stoned and the film clip for ava adore came on...scared the beep out of me.

 

[PhotoJones]

cant believe all of the corgan hate.

1979, Zero, perfect, ava adore, bullet with butterfly wings, untitled....

Hell I even like ZWAN. thought they were awesome.


I remember one night in high school when i was little bit stoned and the film clip for ava adore came on...scared the beep out of me.

The first time I heard Billy's Zwan stuff, it was in the movie, Spun. I loved it. Then the album came out, and I wasn't feeling it.

 

[That-Guy]

LOL, yeah, "well thought out" to you means referencing Led Zepelin whne mention Corgan, congrats you can now get a music journalist job in 1993, hope it goes swell.
"a little bit all over the place"? no, it stays in the SAME place, a boring place. there's nothing there anymore.
even Chamberlin who normally knows how to salvage a song is not up to snuff on this one.
and seriously? you're saying that the new SP is good because it's better than Papa ****ing Roach?
my gawd! have our musical standards sunk so low that now we will bow not to something good, but to something "not quite that ****ty"

No thanks bro. enjoy Corgan's three hour tour into prog-rock mediocrity land, Pearl Jam awaits eagerly for some company.
the fact that you mention the single 2 best SP albums and say that this sounds like a mix of them just, just confuses the hell out of me, this sounds like Zwan / Friends and Enemies of modern music if it sounds like anything at all.

but it still puzzles me that your whole argument for how SP is, was that Papa Roach is real ****ty.
[/IMG]

Dude, I don't want to fight with you over this. I seriously don't. We're all entitled to our opinions. Personally, I like the song, as do a lot of other SP fans. If you don't, that's cool. But look at it this way if you will... When "The Everlasting Gaze" hit the radio back in 1999, I was like "SWEET!!! THE PUMPKINS ARE BACK AND KICKING ASS!!!" Then I bought Machina and I damn near threw it out the window. I guess I figured practically every song on the CD would be a kickass, angry rock tune, but as many of us often learn, you can't judge a whole album by the first single. (Anyway, I should note that after a while, Machina did grow on me, and I do like the album quite a bit now, but it's my least favorite of SP's CDs).

Just some food for thought. Maybe when you hear the album (I doubt you're going to buy it since you hate Tarantula, but maybe a friend will play it for you) you'll have a different reaction. Or maybe it will suck. Who knows? We can only wait and see. From the poor-quality video clips I've seen on youtube of the Paris show, it looks like at least some of their new stuff is going to be more industrial-metal influenced. But like I said, it was poor quality, so I don't know for sure.

As for my defense of "Tarantula," I think it's an amazing song. Some great guitar solos, it's really fast paced, and it doesn't follow your typical verse-chorus format (hence the Gish comparison). Corgan's voice sounds fine, again, he's not the best vocalist in the world, but he certainly doesn't sound any worse than he did back in the day. The lyrics aren't anywhere near something like "Mayonaise" or "Porcelina" but from what I can decipher out of them, they're good. I'm not sure exactly WHAT he's trying to say with the song yet, but I have an idea. So yeah, I like it, blah blah blah, take that for what it is.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I love the name Zwan. I loved the album cover. I thought it was gonna be my new favorite band, like when I first heard the White Stripes.
I went to the store amd listened to it, and it was dung.
WHY, Billy?