Comics BND Sales are dropping Celebration fun time thread

[imdaly]

Again, MARVEL has wanted this for YEARS now. It's just that Joey Q is the person to finally step up and make it happen. And the idiot who put him in charge is the idiot who's responsible for putting someone in charge who's CLEANING UP in sales! Don't think Marvel has anything to complain about here at all.

 

[Styleshift]

I was at TV tropes the other day reading about "Creator Breakdown," and read some of the backstory behind the thought process that went into writing OMD, and it only makes the annulment of Peter and MJ's marriage seem even less legitimate. I know this is all old news, but for the sake of refreshment: Joe Quesada basically equated getting married with growing old and dying, probably because he hates his marriage. He also said that he'd do anything to bring his dead mommy back to life. Since he can't exchange his wife for his mommy in real life, he decided to act it out through Spider-Man, hoping that it would satisfy his unrequited desire at the expense of the comic. All I can say is: what idiot put this guy in charge? Spider-Man's decreased sales are a light slap on the wrist compared to what Marvel deserved for letting Quesada use Spider-Man to alleviate his oedipal need to trade his wife for his mommy.

Personal attacks just make your argument less intellectual. Dude, why even go there? Quesada is a DAMN good E.I.C.

Personal attacks like the one you just made makes fans that don't enjoy the change of the status quo look only one dimensional and stupid. It's ok to disagree, but c'mon. Really? your going to say he has a sexual attraction to his mother? Really? If your getting that upset over comics you need to seek help.

Quesada is a VERY nice guy. Very gracious.


Really both sides can be argued intellectually.
Alot of the writers in charge at Marvel grew up in the 80s
They remember stories like, "Nothing can stop the juggernaut and Whatever happened to crusher hogan." They remember the great story telling that status quo held. It inspires them to give fans today the same opportunity to read stories of the same quality of back than. The truth is, every great Spider-man story could have been told with a married Spider-man. Gwen Stacy could have been married to him for the same effect. He was going to spend the rest of his life with her.


Other than that we really don't see any stories that really stand out because he was single. Spidey has only sucked when they were more concerned with erasing the marriage than actually telling stories. (See how I made a good point without insulting anyone? )

 

[Styleshift]

Again, MARVEL has wanted this for YEARS now. It's just that Joey Q is the person to finally step up and make it happen. And the idiot who put him in charge is the idiot who's responsible for putting someone in charge who's CLEANING UP in sales! Don't think Marvel has anything to complain about here at all.

I'm glad someone FINALLY brought this up because while I was gone, I had alot to say about it.

Marvel is more of a license than a company. They don't write stories.

Really,
It all depends on the E.I.C. at the time. Rick Jones would probably be the hulk right now if it weren't for Jim Shooter. Peter Parker would have 2 adult children if it weren't for Joe Quesada. That's why the writers don't have full control.

The funny thing is, Joe is the main in the chair, he's the one approving and handing down story ideas. We all seem to forget that not only could he have turned down the story of Sins past, but it was his idea for Gwen to have an affair with Norman Osborn. That's what people are mad about.

Stories that really mixed up the status quo can be blamed on him as much as they were on JMS.

You BND folk aren't mad yet because Joe hasn't dipped his hand back into the pot. He's a great E.I.C. but I really don't think he understands Spidey.

These changes will reverse. I remember an interview where Quesada says he was a fan himself thinking the marriage was a mistake the second they did it.
I'm pretty sure a fan from this generation will set the marriage back into continuity one day.
Hey it worked for him. We "Anti-BND" status quo fans can only imagine, huh?

 

[Themanofbat]

From ASM 545-578 you can literally skip all of that and read 578-598 and be up to speed on whats going on now. I did it. No one seems to notice though.

I think this is a good thing...

Any new reader should be able to pick up any random issue of a comic and be able to "get" what's going on without having to go back and read 26 back issues...

My first issue of ASM that I ever bought was ASM #148, the "almost" before last appearance of the real Peter Parker... you think I wasn't confused? Especially being 9 years old (turning 10 a few months later)... not to mention that I had read some Marvel Tales at the time, and there was Gwen, who was "dead" in the other book, fights with Norman GG Osborn when there was talk about his son Harry recently being the Green Goblin... it's a miracle I was able to learn through it all...

Answers aren't always there, and sometimes things take time...

There was a panel in ASM #170 of a dark figure entering a house in Queens, and nothing more was ever mentioned about this until the last page of ASM #193 (almost 2 years later... and with MTU & Spec going on, we had 69 issues of Spidey books not including Annuals) where nothing was mentioned... and it turns out to be Uncle Ben's killer...

I don't mind waiting and letting things develop as the writers intend it to be, as opposed to being dictated by impatient fans... we've had teases and clues thrown at us thus far, and I'm good with it. It'll come when it comes...

 

[Styleshift]

I think this is a good thing...

Any new reader should be able to pick up any random issue of a comic and be able to "get" what's going on without having to go back and read 26 back issues...

My first issue of ASM that I ever bought was ASM #148, the "almost" before last appearance of the real Peter Parker... you think I wasn't confused? Especially being 9 years old (turning 10 a few months later)... not to mention that I had read some Marvel Tales at the time, and there was Gwen, who was "dead" in the other book, fights with Norman GG Osborn when there was talk about his son Harry recently being the Green Goblin... it's a miracle I was able to learn through it all...

Answers aren't always there, and sometimes things take time...

There was a panel in ASM #170 of a dark figure entering a house in Queens, and nothing more was ever mentioned about this until the last page of ASM #193 (almost 2 years later... and with MTU & Spec going on, we had 69 issues of Spidey books not including Annuals) where nothing was mentioned... and it turns out to be Uncle Ben's killer...

I don't mind waiting and letting things develop as the writers intend it to be, as opposed to being dictated by impatient fans... we've had teases and clues thrown at us thus far, and I'm good with it. It'll come when it comes...

I became a fan during the clone saga...
Sadly I'm still confused! lol

I get your point though.....
although I still have a different opinion of it, I respect it.

I'm still really indifferent on stretching out plot points longer than they need to.

The brand new day style is a bit too drawn out for me. It feels like we could have gotten the same stories and paid for less. (I'm very cheap...)

 

[DACMAN]

This will pass because of one big thing. Everyone calls it "BND" and not just "Spider-Man". It will never be the status quo.

 

[iloveclones]

If we called it Spider-Man, we would spend the next five pages arguing about what we mean by "Spider-Man." Obviously, BND was the point that a lot of people around here stopped buying the title. That's why it's referred to in that way. To the people still reading it, it's still Spider-Man.

 

[Styleshift]

This will pass because of one big thing. Everyone calls it "BND" and not just "Spider-Man". It will never be the status quo.

I never saw it that way, it is kinda odd. Brand new day is officially over when you really think about it. But we all still refer to it that way.

what really interests me is how BND folk will react after ASM 600.

After the stunning events of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #600, Spider-Man's life has become more unpredictable than ever, and it's about to get even more tangled in the all new ongoing WEB OF SPIDER-MAN, launching this October!

I'm really curious to see how people take these changes, or if they are even all that big in the first place.

 

[Styleshift]

If we called it Spider-Man, we would spend the next five pages arguing about what we mean by "Spider-Man." Obviously, BND was the point that a lot of people around here stopped buying the title. That's why it's referred to in that way. To the people still reading it, it's still Spider-Man.

I'm still reading it...and I call it BND.
It's not an insult or distaste. It just helps to distinguish the status quo.

 

[farmernudie]

Well...everything after OMD ..is.. the BND world, under the umbrella of all the BND scenarios and rules.

I mean...to me, personally, it isn't and hasn't been Amazing Spider-Man...which was canceled for an experimental phase that we're now in, where continuity was altered & the comics i read didn't transpire as those in BND world.

I mean, I like Exiles...which was written well...but Alterante Spider-Man 3X just isn't done well...but some like it...that is fine....we all like various and different titles...it just stinks that it is so devisive & that many fans no longer have a Spider-Man title to buy anymore. No choice here. Joe's vision or out the door!

And i was pumped at first to hear a new "WEB OF" comic starting.

(i still have warm feelings & can remember the excitement of collecting original Web of when that initially came out...i really enjoyed that title...i wish they did a Web Of Omnibus....hint!)

But then it sank in...this is "BRAND NEW WEB".... So still...ugh...it is stuff that falls under this new Peter Parker i'mnot impressed with in the slightest.

I'll be excited when this BND stuff is retconned...or when they start publishing a real spider-man comic again that has no mention of Mephisto, marriages never happening, everything is the same nonsense, and spider-man has learned and is aware of his own life lessons.

 

[farmernudie]

We still call Clone Saga stuff...(that people stopped buying) the "Clone Saga stuff". Sure we could just call it Spider-man....but it was an odd time and many stopped buying, just truth. Marvel admits it was an error now and went on for eternity. Historical time, for the wrong reasons.

This BND stuff will always be referred to as BND stuff, i believe. historical time again, very big, but for the wrong reasons. Everyone knows about BND, even if they don't collect, like it or hate it. Controversial!!

It is very similiar to Clone Saga time. It was devisive and many fans were cheesed!!! I mean really cheesed! Just like now. (plus i like saying cheesed, or some would say!)

To me, it is only a matter of time till we rejoin good ol' Pete back within continuity and Marvel staff down the road will admit BND stuff was a big error the same way they do now with Clone Saga material/times.

There will be some that will talk fondly of BND times, just as there are some that do of Clone Saga times...but overall....fans will be more united again and happy to leave the SLOPPY slapped together can of worms that OMD/BND experiment will at some point be agreed upon to have been.

That is how i see it, realistically, ...in the end. Universal truth is things are always changing, so thus as it is now, this too shall pass. Hopefully wisely back to something less devisive and something more along the lines of the Pete fans bought before.

 

[Meehaul]

As long as they don't bring back the marriage. That destroyed the responsible Pete I knew & loved as a character. The marriage is a mistake most have acknowledged for years, but they compounded that error with a craptastic magical solution that not even Dr. Strange finds credible.

 

[SpideyInATree]

The real problem with BND is no matter what they do it won't be exciting. If they kill Harry again, instead of people freaking out people they will say "again...really?" If they unmask Peter again, people will say "again...really?" If they decide to kill Aunt May, kill Spider-man, kill Norman, have a close girl friend get killed or almost killed we can all say "Again? Really?" They are simply treading old ground now.

Like we really needed a reboot so they could give us another Goblin. After three Green Goblins, three Hobgoblins, Demogoblin, Grey Goblin, two future Goblins, Jack O'Lantern, and a young Goblin in the making they thought it clever to give us a new Goblin? At least they dropped the Goblin from his name this time.

That is not just Brand New Day that is pretty much ANY superhero that has been around for a long period of time. If you don't want to be saying "Again?! Really?!" I would suggest reading superheroes that haven't been around for any longer than a few years because that is what you are going to get with many of them.

 

[mre]

I was at TV tropes the other day reading about "Creator Breakdown," and read some of the backstory behind the thought process that went into writing OMD, and it only makes the annulment of Peter and MJ's marriage seem even less legitimate.

An annulment is a long process where a couple has to prove to the church they were never in love in the first place, and should have never gotten married.

Mephisto "took" their love. He can't take something that was never there.

 

[DACMAN]

If we called it Spider-Man, we would spend the next five pages arguing about what we mean by "Spider-Man." Obviously, BND was the point that a lot of people around here stopped buying the title. That's why it's referred to in that way. To the people still reading it, it's still Spider-Man.

Marvel calls it "BND". That's my point.

 

[imdaly]

Look carefully. I have not been calling this "era" BND since BND ended last year. I'll refer now as Post-OMD or something like that, but BND was over a year ago.

 

[DACMAN]

I never saw it that way, it is kinda odd. Brand new day is officially over when you really think about it. But we all still refer to it that way.

what really interests me is how BND folk will react after ASM 600.

What happens in ASM 600? I don't read it anymore.

 

[Styleshift]

If we called it Spider-Man, we would spend the next five pages arguing about what we mean by "Spider-Man." Obviously, BND was the point that a lot of people around here stopped buying the title. That's why it's referred to in that way. To the people still reading it, it's still Spider-Man.

Look carefully. I have not been calling this "era" BND since BND ended last year. I'll refer now as Post-OMD or something like that, but BND was over a year ago.

Now that the pain killers have worn off, and I'm back to my senses.
How is that different?
Brand new day IS Post-OMD.

That's the point he's making.
Some of you guys make an argument that some of us are so critical of the book. But you guys do the same thing about our opinions sometimes....

Now we no longer refer to one more day. We grade the book on it's own merits and you guys can't accept why we might possibly not enjoy it.

• Some fans are confused by the total revamp.
• Some fans feel betrayed by Peter and seeing him now is a constant reminder of that.
• Some fans just think these stories are boring.
• Some fans feel like the title is more like Ultimate Spider-man.
• Some fans think Marvel just doesn't care anymore.

All of those are valid opinions. No one is saying: SPIDER-MAN MUST BE MARRIED TO MARY JANE THAT'S WHY I HATE THE BOOK. I WANT ALL OF THE ANSWERS RIGHT NOW!!!!

cause really those are the only arguments you guys have been making....those are the REAL critical responses.

The important thing is we are all still trying to like the book. We're not disliking it just to be stupid and hateful.

 

[Styleshift]

What happens in ASM 600? I don't read it anymore.

It's not out yet. ASM 599 comes out tommorow I think.

 

[imdaly]

Now that the pain killers have worn off, and I'm back to my senses.
How is that different?
Brand new day IS Post-OMD.

That's the point he's making.
Some of you guys make an argument that some of us are so critical of the book. But you guys do the same thing about our opinions sometimes....

Now we no longer refer to one more day. We grade the book on it's own merits and you guys can't accept why we might possibly not enjoy it.

Read DACMAN's quote again:

This will pass because of one big thing. Everyone calls it "BND" and not just "Spider-Man". It will never be the status quo.

Now maybe I'm reading him wrong or something, but it seems to me he's trying to say that the changes made by OMD and BND are sure to be only temporary and that eventually it will all be undone because "everyone" is still referring to the Spider-Man comics now as "BND stories" rather than simply "Spider-Man stories", as if it means that by calling them "BND stories" it's a way to distinguish this as a period of time when Spidey's off in some alternate world or something and he's just bound to get back to the "real" world once BND is over.

I'm simply pointing out that, no, not everyone is doing so. I'm using myself as an example of someone who doesn't call everything after OMD as "BND", since that was over last year.

 

[Styleshift]

Read DACMAN's quote again:



Now maybe I'm reading him wrong or something, but it seems to me he's trying to say that the changes made by OMD and BND are sure to be only temporary and that eventually it will all be undone because "everyone" is still referring to the Spider-Man comics now as "BND stories" rather than simply "Spider-Man stories", as if it means that by calling them "BND stories" it's a way to distinguish this as a period of time when Spidey's off in some alternate world or something and he's just bound to get back to the "real" world once BND is over.

I'm simply pointing out that, no, not everyone is doing so. I'm using myself as an example of someone who doesn't call everything after OMD as "BND", since that was over last year.

Read what I said again.

Brand new day IS Post-OMD.

You are literally saying the same thing.
I believe he's making a point that, we don't have any other "post status quo" stories that have stuck.

Except for ones that were controversial and have already been reversed.

Eventually there will be another "EARTH SHATTERING" change to the POST-OMD/BND Spidey-verse that will be made to gain sales.
600 is literally that new change, seeing as they've hinted a "wedding we'll never see coming" with solicitations that suggest it's Peter and Mj.

I'm telling you guys, the way Marvel handles Spidey. Eventually you will end up pissed off just like the rest of us.

 

[imdaly]

Read what I said again.

Brand new day IS Post-OMD.

You are literally saying the same thing.

It's the whole square/rectangle thing.

Brand New Day is the first set of stories that happend Post-OMD.

Brand New Day has finished, but we're still Post-OMD.

Brand New Day is ASM #546-564.
Post-OMD is ASM #546+.

Brand New Day IS Post-OMD.
Post-OMD is not Brand New Day anymore.

600 is literally that new change, seeing as they've hinted a "wedding we'll never see coming" with solicitations that suggest it's Peter and Mj.

...are you seriously believing that Peter and MJ will get married next week?!?

There's a better chance of Randy Robertson marrying Norah in this issue than those two.

 

[Styleshift]

It's the whole square/rectangle thing.

Brand New Day is the first set of stories that happened Post-OMD.

Brand New Day has finished, but we're still Post-OMD.

Brand New Day is ASM #546-564.
Post-OMD is ASM #546+.

Brand New Day IS Post-OMD.
Post-OMD is not Brand New Day anymore.

Just because they take a subtitle off of the book doesn't mean everything has come to a nice bow tie closure. lol

There are still plenty of unresolved plots. Did "the other" really end in issue 12 of amazing? No, sir.

So when I refer to "the other" I refer to all of the plots involved to it.
Same with any Spidey story. Labeling isn't always a bad thing.

When I say Brand new day, it makes it easier to distuguish the certain plots involved with it or that was born from it.

But I see what your saying about them reversing it because its a status quo. Dacman isn't dumb for his assumption though. Your listening to everything Marvel is saying...but c'mon dude they've lied since Stan was in the chair.

...are you seriously believing that Peter and MJ will get married next week?!?

There's a better chance of Randy Robertson marrying Norah in this issue than those two.

That's not what I said. I was using it as an example of how they do certain things to spike sales. Certain people that are not completely following the book could believe this perhaps. That's my point.

 

[iloveclones]

I'm telling you guys, the way Marvel handles Spidey. Eventually you will end up pissed off just like the rest of us.

I've been reading Amazing for over 30 years. Somehow, I think I'll survive.

 

[Styleshift]

I've been reading Amazing for over 30 years. Somehow, I think I'll survive.

AWW! was that sarcasm?
Well be very careful about dropping the title than, we don't want you to keel over "MR. 30 years of ASM". .

EDIT: You know what, I'm a very nice poster. I don't even get mad easily. But quite frankly, that comment you made pissed me off.
you act like in the past 30 years Spidey has sold his soul to the devil and divided fans every year.
The only story to do this before was the clone saga.

Every other controversial story ever told we were right there with fans like you.

Gwen screws Norman. We were there
Peter isn't Peter. We were there
Mary Jane blown up. We were there
Peters origin revamped. We were there.

Every freakin time, and just because some people cannot jump aboard Brand new day as easily, you act like we get mad and quit so easily. What a joke that is.