Comics BND Sales are dropping Celebration fun time thread

You're missing my point, though, Style. I understand other people being upset and saying that they're going to boycott, etc. I even understand the greivances, even if I don't agree with them. What I don't understand is this effort to get someone else to dislike something that they don't like. A lot of people like Transmetropolitan, The Boys, and other titles that I don't particularly care for. Just not my cup of tea. And if I were in a conversation about it, I would argue that I think that a lot of it is just violence for the sake of being violent, and that's not enough for me. I might even say that so and so is a one trick pony (I have said this about Bendis, Millar). But if someone enjoys the book (I remember Elijya was a big Transmetropolitan fan), hey, rock your socks off. It ain't for me, but I'm glad you like it.

Now, all that said, I really do understand why I get that comment from time to time. Because people on the other side of the fence think that my( and others) buying it prevents Marvel from changing back to the version that they like. Well, all I can say is I like it the way that it is. I like, I buy.

I can see from you sig that you're a Ben Reilly fan. So was I. In fact, I was one of the few that liked the switch out with Peter. And when they went back on it, in a very ham-handed way, and killed Ben, I didn't like it. And over the years, I've expressed my enjoyment of that storyline. Well, maybe idea, not story. Because the story did get munged up. But I never went around telling people that they were towing the company line for supporting the newly returned Peter.

Reply to EDIT: I was really replying to your initial post, but it looks like it all still applies.


Yeah, pretty much. I just kind of cut it down.
I thought it was confusing lol.

The funny thing is, when people are like "avoid this book, for yadada reason" It really does backfire.

If they are an avid comic fan, they are going to want to look. Sales are going to be made and who knows they might like it.

Marvel fans are like new yorkers. No matter what happens or how sticky things get they have to look. Even in other genre's like T.V., movie, etc. I've seen this happen. It's why I think the clone saga did so well in sales before the dragged it out for 2 1/2 years. :yay:
 
My own story from the clone saga:

One of my favorite stories from the original clone saga came in the aftermath, when Spidey goes to Doc Connors to confirm that he was the original and not the clone. His final "proof" was that, when under attack/stress, his "final thoughts" were of MJ, and he figured that the clones would be of Gwen, so he threw out Doc Connors results without reading them. And I always thought that was a bit stupid, and left the door wide open. Fast forward to what most people know as the clone saga: Ben's first appearance was dodging a car or saving a kid (I forget the exact circumstances), and when I saw that scene, I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if that were the clone?" And then they introduced him, and that story came back to me, and I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if they were switched?" (which is probably why I accepted it, and most people didn't). And when they revealed that, I was hoping that Marvel had the cajones to make the switch permanent. Which they did. And they didn't.
 
My own story from the clone saga:

One of my favorite stories from the original clone saga came in the aftermath, when Spidey goes to Doc Connors to confirm that he was the original and not the clone. His final "proof" was that, when under attack/stress, his "final thoughts" were of MJ, and he figured that the clones would be of Gwen, so he threw out Doc Connors results without reading them. And I always thought that was a bit stupid, and left the door wide open. Fast forward to what most people know as the clone saga: Ben's first appearance was dodging a car or saving a kid (I forget the exact circumstances), and when I saw that scene, I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if that were the clone?" And then they introduced him, and that story came back to me, and I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if they were switched?" (which is probably why I accepted it, and most people didn't). And when they revealed that, I was hoping that Marvel had the cajones to make the switch permanent. Which they did. And they didn't.

Looking back on the clone saga I think they should have at least kept Ben around. It would be interesting to see how he would really be perceived now.

I wonder if he would have the same respect he has now.
 
I can't stand Ultimate Spider-Man and I am glad to see it gone...

:yay:
 
Looking back on the clone saga I think they should have at least kept Ben around. It would be interesting to see how he would really be perceived now.

I wonder if he would have the same respect he has now.

No, death really increases the interest in characters (see Thor, Hawkeye)
 
But I never went around telling people that they were towing the company line for supporting the newly returned Peter.

The irony of that post is that the reason they changed it back was because people were upset with it and didn't "tow the company line". On on a side note I loved Ben Reilly as well. Just not as much as Peter.
 
iluvclones: Hey, if I stop liking it, I stop buying. I did for about a year once. Am I supposed to supply some kind of "anger cred" now?


"Anger Cred".....lol....that phrase gave me a good laugh after work.

As for TMOB....it is funny how our opinions vary so much, just in spider-man land....i mean...i actually loved the Ultimate Spider-Man series.

However, the new reboot in Amazing feels like a poorly done Ultimate to me. I just wish my favorite character still existed for me to read and buy. But i am ok with it, as ok i can be, and waiting for the next inevitable reboot.

I've said long ago...if they wanted to alter stuff...i actually would've liked it WAY altered....i mean, even Ultimate in some ways didn't vary enough. Bring Gwen back. Have Aunt May die in the origin and Uncle Ben alive. Explore truly new scenarios....i mean...Ultimate AND BND they say they want to tell these NEW stories...but they never truly do....i can think of LOTS of NEW things to really explore if they WENT WITH THAT CONCEPT for REAL. Ya know?

So it is just neat...or whatever...to see how we vary. Da'ts all! :yay:
 
I can't stand Ultimate Spider-Man and I am glad to see it gone...

:yay:

I enjoyed Ultimate Spider-Man and am sad to see it go.

:csad:


I honestly just hate that I don't care more about the books than I do. I used to argue vehemently over Spidey and what was wrong with the new direction....now, I honestly don't care.

If they changed it all back with an apology on top tomorrow, I still wouldn't buy it. I've accepted that this is a title that will always do what is the MOST controversial and attention-getting thing it can do. Shock tactics and out-of-character decisions are the norm, and good, solid storytelling takes a back seat to that. I'm not saying the stories are good or bad, but they will always hav eto step back and let the next big "thing" happen, and it will always cause the story to suffer.

Personally, I'll stick with Invincible and the Walking Dead, where change is real and meaningful. I'll buy the occassional issue (like 600....WOO), and that's about it.
 
Personally, I'll stick with Invincible and the Walking Dead, where change is real and meaningful. I'll buy the occassional issue (like 600....WOO), and that's about it.

I recently picked up a comic called "North 40", where it's basically like Walking Dead except with Chthullu monsters instead of zombies...

:yay:
 
I can't stand Ultimate Spider-Man and I am glad to see it gone...

:yay:

So you hated Ultimate Spider-Man and love the current Amazing? Talk about "upside-down-crazy-world" logic. You read Ultimate Spider-Man 1-133? I don't think you did. No one could have read those and not have loved them being a Spidey fan.
 
So you hated Ultimate Spider-Man and love the current Amazing? Talk about "upside-down-crazy-world" logic. You read Ultimate Spider-Man 1-133? I don't think you did. No one could have read those and not have loved them being a Spidey fan.

My son likes Ultimate Spider-Man, and he has the comics, and I've read them... for the most part... I stopped reading around the end of the Clone Saga...

While there may have been some "regressive" moments in BND, to me it's as current a Spidey adventure from the guy whose adventures I've been reading since ASM #148 (as well as those previous issues via bought back issues). The current "Amercian Son" storyline which ran from ASM #595-599 showed an experienced Spider-Man in my opinion...

Ultimate Spider-Man did nothing to me because I simply could not relate to the guy... this teenager was not the same person whom I had developped an affinity to during the last 35 years of my life...

USM was no different to me that Marvel Adventures Spider-Man... they're basically Spidey stories that "don't count", so why bother...

I can understand the appeal though... the art was nice and some stories were decent... just not for me.

Hope that helps...

:yay:
 
My son likes Ultimate Spider-Man, and he has the comics, and I've read them... for the most part... I stopped reading around the end of the Clone Saga...

While there may have been some "regressive" moments in BND, to me it's as current a Spidey adventure from the guy whose adventures I've been reading since ASM #148 (as well as those previous issues via bought back issues). The current "Amercian Son" storyline which ran from ASM #595-599 showed an experienced Spider-Man in my opinion...

Ultimate Spider-Man did nothing to me because I simply could not relate to the guy... this teenager was not the same person whom I had developped an affinity to during the last 35 years of my life...

USM was no different to me that Marvel Adventures Spider-Man... they're basically Spidey stories that "don't count", so why bother...

I can understand the appeal though... the art was nice and some stories were decent... just not for me.

Hope that helps...

:yay:

Yeah. Clone Saga was pretty far into the series. And I can see what you're saying about the "don't count" thing. But I'll take a good Spidey story wherever I can get it. Because if you really take the "don't count" thing to heart you couldn't watch or play any of the cartoons, movies, or videogames. You couldn't even read a "What If?" for that matter.

That being said, I thought Ultimate Spider-Man as a whole were some of the best written Spider-Man stories. Ever. There is nothing wrong with updating something that is starting to look dated. DC had to do it who knows how many times now because they've been around so long. They've tried to update Spider-Man (well, the entire Marvel universe really) for a long time. Clone saga, John Byne, even BND is an attempt to inject it with new life.
 
He's not lying either. I'd give American son a 5/5 overall personally.
It was that good. They really did a good job with it, because I felt like I was reading Amazing instead of an alternate title this time.

But there are 3 reasons why I liked it so much.

  1. experienced Spidey
  2. Brand new day cast was barely involved.
  3. It connected Spider-man heavily back with the M.U.

Although it was more of a Harry Osborn story than Peter. Peter's worth was realized at the end.

The sad thing is, I've been enjoying the title alot since they stopped forcing the Brand new day cast into my face. But truth be told that can happen with any character (Venom, Punisher, Wolverine :o...)

Some characters are just best in small doses when introduced. Unless of course they become a staple of the title.
 
The Clone Saga...I am of the impression that those fond of that particular era are perhaps more passionate about Ben and the new path Peter was able to take. In total, The Clone Saga created far more problems than solutions. So many things went on during that era that shouldn't.

-Nano Tech Carnage
-Resurrecting Aunt May
-Still Birth of Mayday
-Resurrecting Norman Osborn

The Clone Saga was actually the reason why I stopped reading Marvel comics for 7 years (honest to goodness). There were high points...Judas Traveller is a beast of a character. Kain was interesting. But all the "no I am really Peter" shtick and having Pete in jail because of Kain...too much drama. It was just too convoluted. But Marvel has topped that with Sins Past and One More Day.

Personally, I enjoy the BND stories because they are a return to form for Peter. As much as I loved reading New Avengers, I hated seeing Spidey on that team as much as I semi-hate Batman on the Justice League. I just despise seeing street level heroes doing cosmic and international level battles unless it comes to their own turf (a la Amazing Spider-Man #326, my favorite issue of Spider-Man).

My only gripe with BND is the unnecessary dissolution of Peter's marriage to MJ. Everyone complain that it is so difficult to write Peter while married...but that doesn't seem to stop people from writing Superman or Fantastic Four stories. But I suppose excuses will be abound when people run out of ideas and need a scapegoat. I am also not partial to the inovlement with the figurative satan of the Marvel universe. It taints Spidey in such a way that it offends me as a Christian (also being very honest).

I try to endure it because I am in general not bothered by stories involving demons. In fact I enjoy reading DC stories involving Etrigan. I even enjoyed Ghost Rider, which was about a character who made a similar faustian bargain. But perhaps because John Blaze suffered for his choice and rectifies this by battling the same demon clan he belongs to (a page from which Spawn took notes from), I feel that there is a balance. Peter just did some dirty deal and the fans paid the price. I suppose it is difficult to explain...
 
Aunt May wasn't "resurrected" until a while after the Clone Saga ended. :)
 
ARACHKNIGHT: But perhaps because John Blaze suffered for his choice and rectifies this by battling the same demon clan he belongs to (a page from which Spawn took notes from), I feel that there is a balance. Peter just did some dirty deal and the fans paid the price. I suppose it is difficult to explain...

I think that's how many of us feel, even some of those that DO like BND.

Pete made this deal with the devil (Evil) which nixed his marriage and created this brand new world where his elderly aunt is alive, everything is good....and we just move on with no actual CONSEQUENCES to the actual deal.

It's (BND) is a foundation with poor writing, that doesn't follow up on it's own story and CONSEQUENCES. It was just a quick way to punch the reboot button basically. Evil won, and a whole new world is there...presto!

Plus, Pete of ALL CHARACTERS dealing with ultimate evil just makes him look like an ultimate loser now.
 
It was mentioned early on that their is a price to pay when "dealing with the devil"... whether this remains to be seen is the question...
 
The Clone Saga...I am of the impression that those fond of that particular era are perhaps more passionate about Ben and the new path Peter was able to take. In total, The Clone Saga created far more problems than solutions. So many things went on during that era that shouldn't.

-Nano Tech Carnage
-Resurrecting Aunt May
-Still Birth of Mayday
-Resurrecting Norman Osborn

The Clone Saga was actually the reason why I stopped reading Marvel comics for 7 years (honest to goodness). There were high points...Judas Traveller is a beast of a character. Kain was interesting. But all the "no I am really Peter" shtick and having Pete in jail because of Kain...too much drama. It was just too convoluted. But Marvel has topped that with Sins Past and One More Day.

Personally, I enjoy the BND stories because they are a return to form for Peter. As much as I loved reading New Avengers, I hated seeing Spidey on that team as much as I semi-hate Batman on the Justice League. I just despise seeing street level heroes doing cosmic and international level battles unless it comes to their own turf (a la Amazing Spider-Man #326, my favorite issue of Spider-Man).

My only gripe with BND is the unnecessary dissolution of Peter's marriage to MJ. Everyone complain that it is so difficult to write Peter while married...but that doesn't seem to stop people from writing Superman or Fantastic Four stories. But I suppose excuses will be abound when people run out of ideas and need a scapegoat. I am also not partial to the inovlement with the figurative satan of the Marvel universe. It taints Spidey in such a way that it offends me as a Christian (also being very honest).

I try to endure it because I am in general not bothered by stories involving demons. In fact I enjoy reading DC stories involving Etrigan. I even enjoyed Ghost Rider, which was about a character who made a similar faustian bargain. But perhaps because John Blaze suffered for his choice and rectifies this by battling the same demon clan he belongs to (a page from which Spawn took notes from), I feel that there is a balance. Peter just did some dirty deal and the fans paid the price. I suppose it is difficult to explain...

Heh looks like the opinion polls have changed. Good to see you back on the boards Arach Knight. :cwink:

I agree. Johnny Blaze sold his soul and still lost his mentor.
Pete seems pretty nonchalant. That's why I didn't buy the whole "im jealous of their happiness" bit.

I think the whole problem of Spider-man is that he's changed over the years so many times that he's really hard to define.
He's the most realistic super hero because we've seen him grow. From a teen to an adult. But we can atleast agree on one thing. He may not always get it right. He may fail, but he never gives up. That's the most important theme
 
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All the hate in this thread reminds me of why I took a break from these boards for a long time and stayed away during BND. I figured this animosity would be over by now. I would figure that if you don't like it, don't like it. If you like it, you like it. We are ALL "real" Spider-Man fans. Some of you are grown ass men arguing about Spider-Man and other grown ass men's decision on where to take the character. I would say that is tremendous love, no matter what you feel about the current state of the book.

To me...whether it's Lee/Ditko or Slott/Romita Jr. if it takes place in Amazing Spider-Man. It is Spider-Man. One More Day. Brand New Day. Clone Saga. Venom saga. Hobgoblin saga. Sin Eater saga. Kraven's Last Hunt. Master Planner. Death of Gwen Stacy. It's all Spider-Man no matter how I look at it. And he's my favorite out of all of them. :spidey:
 
All the hate in this thread reminds me of why I took a break from these boards for a long time and stayed away during BND. I figured this animosity would be over by now. I would figure that if you don't like it, don't like it. If you like it, you like it. We are ALL "real" Spider-Man fans. Some of you are grown ass men arguing about Spider-Man and other grown ass men's decision on where to take the character. I would say that is tremendous love, no matter what you feel about the current state of the book.

To me...whether it's Lee/Ditko or Slott/Romita Jr. if it takes place in Amazing Spider-Man. It is Spider-Man. One More Day. Brand New Day. Clone Saga. Venom saga. Hobgoblin saga. Sin Eater saga. Kraven's Last Hunt. Master Planner. Death of Gwen Stacy. It's all Spider-Man no matter how I look at it. And he's my favorite out of all of them. :spidey:

LOL dude. Some of us are grown men reading comics PERIOD. :lmao:

We all obviously have the same love of for the character regardless of our stance on where they take the character. To me, if your upset about something you should have the right to express your opinion. As long as you don't sling personal attacks. :yay:
 
LOL dude. Some of us are grown men reading comics PERIOD. :lmao:

We all obviously have the same love of for the character regardless of our stance on where they take the character. To me, if your upset about something you should have the right to express your opinion. As long as you don't sling personal attacks. :yay:

I know we all have the same love of the character, that's the point I am trying to make. Of course people have the right to express their opinion but as you said...as long as it does not go into personal attacks...but about nine times out of ten that seems to be the case.

And as Mr. Tom Defalco said in a recent podcast...it is very VERY easy to express your dislike for something than it is for your enjoyment of something, especially on Internet message boards. :oldrazz:
 
Picked up this tidbit in the Marvel Comics Forum, but apparantly, in New Avengers #54, there's a situation where Hellstrom, the Son of Satan, is ranting about the balance of good and evil to Brother Voodoo and kinda ranting about the something evil coming soon... then the convo goes...

Spidey: You should right greeting cards, really.
Hellstrom: And you better be ready to pay for all your sins.

:wow: :wow: :wow:

Now... this could be nothing, because it's a Bendis book... but both books (ASM & NA) are under Brevvort's wings, so this could be some weird foreshadowing.

I'd like to think it's the latter... Marvel used to be good with this kind of stuff...

Discuss...

:yay:
 
Picked up this tidbit in the Marvel Comics Forum, but apparantly, in New Avengers #54, there's a situation where Hellstrom, the Son of Satan, is ranting about the balance of good and evil to Brother Voodoo and kinda ranting about the something evil coming soon... then the convo goes...

Spidey: You should right greeting cards, really.
Hellstrom: And you better be ready to pay for all your sins.

:wow: :wow: :wow:

Now... this could be nothing, because it's a Bendis book... but both books (ASM & NA) are under Brevvort's wings, so this could be some weird foreshadowing.

I'd like to think it's the latter... Marvel used to be good with this kind of stuff...

Discuss...

:yay:

I mentioned that in the Bought Thought threads a bit before, but I doubt it has anything to do with anything. Isn't your tag line, "It wasn't a deal with the devil something else happened that hasn't been revealed yet?" Plus all the writers have been scrambling to distance everything from OMD after initially poking fun and feeling the backlash on that. And this was a Bendis book, no forshadowing that doesn't involve evil psychotic women trying to destroy the world.
 
MY tag line???

:huh: :huh: :huh:

All Mephisto did was erase the marriage from existance... everything else that changed was the result of some otehr action, some of which we still do not know about...
 

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