Bought/Thought for August 25th, 2010 - SPOILERS

[Dread]

Dynamo 5: Sins Of The Father #3

The biggest shock of the week! No, it's not this comic, but the fact that Dread has not reviewed it yet!!! Seriously, is there a bigger proponent of Dynamo 5 than Dread??!!??

A Diamond shipping delay prevented it from hitting comic shops in New York, as well as in California. I should be able to get it next week.

As for Captain America: I really, genuinely hope Brubaker never touches Baron Zemo ever again after this arc is over. I could begin to rationalize his actions when he was mostly behind the scenes, manipulating things from afar. But this issue really reduced him to a straight-up cookie-cutter, cackling arch-villain. It was painful to read. The arc as a whole is fine and would probably even be enjoyable if not for Zemo's involvement, but every panel with him is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Zemo still clearly doesn't want to kill Barnes. Then again, NO villain who Barnes seems to fight wants to kill him. Even Red Skull (or his cronies) took him alive no end of times. So far he seems out to ruin Barnes' reputation by digging up the old skeletons and leaking them to the media, but he has his own agenda. I'm reserving judgment until the finale.

But as I have stated a few times, I was literally one of five people who never read T-Bolts during Zemo's heroic streak, so it really doesn't bother me. Him being a hero is like the Shredder being a hero to me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I suspect a lot more than 5 people didn't read or care about Zemo's time as an anti-hero. As it stands, it seems like Anubis and I are the only ones who are actually annoyed with his regression in Brubaker's series.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I suspect a lot more than 5 people didn't read or care about Zemo's time as an anti-hero. As it stands, it seems like Anubis and I are the only ones who are actually annoyed with his regression in Brubaker's series.

I actually didn't read that in T-Bolts or anything, but if this regression is really as bad and sudden as that, you can probably add me to the list. Regardless of my opinion on the character, that's ultimately just bad writing.

 

[TimBisley]

I think so. And I think you exaggerate his "regression".

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I actually didn't read that in T-Bolts or anything, but if this regression is really as bad and sudden as that, you can probably add me to the list. Regardless of my opinion on the character, that's ultimately just bad writing.

Eh, I don't know, I'm sure there are some who have read it who would say I'm overstating the damage Brubaker's done. Part of it is probably that I personally don't want Zemo to be a full-on villain anymore, too.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Eh, I don't know, I'm sure there are some who have read it who would say I'm overstating the damage Brubaker's done. Part of it is probably that I personally don't want Zemo to be a full-on villain anymore, too.

Well, what kind of an anti-hero was he? Was he the kind that wasn't afraid to get dirty, but ultimately did thinks for what he felt was the greater good and actively tried to redeem his own ways? Or was he the anti-hero who technically was on the side of good, but always kept a certain amount of villainous tendencies and ideals (like some of the Secret Six members now basically)?

Because, yeah, he's come off pretty much as a pure villain to me this arc as well. If he was suppose to be the former, I certainly don't see that kind of character in this Zemo. If he's the latter, though, a sudden jump back to villain probably isn't a huge regression.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He was the kind of anti-hero who believed in an "ends justify the means" philosophy. He'd get very dirty, but he firmly believed that he was working toward a better future. He was genuinely heroic at times, though. For example, he took a blast in the face that was meant for Captain America--his greatest enemy for years.

 

[Dread]

Anti-Hero is okay, but I never bought those "genuinely heroic" moments. Like at one point I heard he returned the items of Steve's that were destroyed when he had the Masters Of Evil break into and occupy the Avengers Mansion during the "Under Siege" story, and I rolled my eyes. I could accept a Zemo who thought his schemes usually had a positive end goal, like Dr. Doom (although Doom often gives into pettiness). I can't buy him giving a spit about other heroes, especially since he tried to kill them for so long.

Zemo's a good villain for this arc of CAPTAIN AMERICA, but he isn't too anti-heroish at all. Not unless he genuinely believes exposing James Barnes' time as Winter Soldier to the media and making him look bad on camera via drugging and manipulation will serve a greater good. I'm reading it as Zemo wanting to destroy Captain America as an ideal, not exactly as a person. That he could never do that when Steve Rogers was in the mantle, as Rogers was/is squeaky clean and perfect. Nothing twisted or ugly in his record; even in the middle of CIVIL WAR, Tony and Steve could only find one time where Rogers got hot and took a swing at someone unjustly (and it was Iron Man, back when his identity was still unknown). But Barnes was a brainwashed Cold War hit-man who not only was a boogeyman of the last century, he committed acts of terror on U.S. soil in this one. People were killed or orphaned when he set off a bomb in a major city. He killed SHIELD agents. He even personally assassinated Jack Monroe, who despite being psychotic when he was murdered, had been a hero. Here is a deeply flawed Capt. America with sins that he technically hasn't answered for, because a Cosmic Cube fixed the brainwashing and Steve always puts in a good word. It's possible that Zemo sees the mantle as needing someone who isn't so deeply flawed or has so many sins behind him that haven't been answered for, but if he believed that, why isn't his first target Wolverine? That guy's killed half of Asia and is personally responsible for creating a slew of maniacs, including Nuke, and getting a mess-load of innocent people killed, and has spent most of his life as a brainwashed assassin, even recently. But I'm getting the vibe it's more about tarnishing the mantle and getting some sort of revenge on Barnes, for whatever reason, or at least making Barnes hear some lecture about how Zemo never got the free ride he got, or something. I don't know. We'll see how the last chapter goes. Clearly, either Zemo lets him go to face the music, or Barnes escapes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Dude, you never read any of it and you admit that you only think of Zemo as a villain, period, full-stop because you don't want heroism poaching anymore good villains after Venom or whatever. The fact that you can't buy Zemo as a hero, anti- or otherwise, stems entirely from your own bias.

 

[runawayboulder]

This thing with Zemo doesn't bother me because it involves Bucky. Their histories are closely intertwined. If it was some other hero other than Buck, that's a different story.....

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That just makes it worse for me. Zemo tried his best to prove to Steve that he'd changed, but Bucky comes back and suddenly he's like, "F*** that noise, I'm gonna ruin this bastard's life!"

 

[Iron Man]

You can count me in the camp that's annoyed with Brubaker's handling of Zemo. His progression from villainy was one of the most fascinating parts of the Thunderbolts title and he was one of my favourite characters from that series (second only to Songbird) sheerly because of the way he was so well developed. He became such an interesting character because he genuinely wanted to save the world - he just thought the best way to do that was to take it over. I find it difficult to believe that he'd throw that self-proclaimed mission away simply because Bucky came back into the picture, especially considering he'd all but made his peace with Steve.

The arc itself is brilliantly written, and if it were any other villain than Zemo, it'd be awesome. But every time Brubaker writes him, it just feels wrong because years of layers have just been thrown away.

 

[Dread]

Dude, you never read any of it and you admit that you only think of Zemo as a villain, period, full-stop because you don't want heroism poaching anymore good villains after Venom or whatever. The fact that you can't buy Zemo as a hero, anti- or otherwise, stems entirely from your own bias.

Says the guy who never gives Daredevil or the X-Men a chance because...why exactly? We all have our own personal preferences about comics and the sorts of things that spark our interest and enthusiasm. The dirty little secret of fandom is that if we aren't invested or attached to a status quo that is washed away, we don't give a damn about it. I always nitpick how the Shroud is a standard vigilante when he used to be a far more interesting "hero pretending to be a villain", and does anyone give a spit but me? Absolutely not. But I don't get bent about it.

Just curious, how'd you like the "everyone is a hero of their own story" take on the DARK AVENGERS?

This thing with Zemo doesn't bother me because it involves Bucky. Their histories are closely intertwined. If it was some other hero other than Buck, that's a different story.....

That's the track Brubaker is going on. That their histories and attempts to honor a legacy or at the very least wear the same costume as someone else with a famous or infamous past connect them. Brubaker is good, or at least prefers, mastermind villains whose motives and end goals are so vague that no one can guess them, at least until Brubaker is ready (or for cynics, when he figures it out himself). Osborn's rise and fall from grace embittered Zemo with the rise of "black and white" morality again. He hears Barnes is alive again and the old gears start turning. He sets up a mastermind plan to manipulate Barnes, torment him and ruin the mantle he's using. But why? That's the riddle, really. His minion talked about feeling envious that Barnes has been allowed to ignore his horrible past while others are never allowed to forget, but there's no telling if that's Zemo's motivation. For all we know, Zemo just decided he'd honor the old man by icing Barnes at the old island again, strapped to a torpedo for old time's sake. Or we could get a lecture about how somehow all this serves some idea of a greater good in Zemo's head. We won't know until next issue, and if Brubaker plans on stretching this out as long as his Red Skull stuff, we may not know for years.

I still contend it would have been harder to simply revert Zemo back to being a villain, since everyone says that's happened, if someone had replaced him on that arch nemesis ladder for Captain America. An old villain can reform if a new one takes his or her place. Or at least it becomes harder to allow a writer to satisfy those "this was how it was when I was a kid" urges if there's a new cog to replace an old one. But that's just my theory. Brubaker's likely reached the point where it may not have mattered anyway, if he wanted Zemo to be his next big villain.

Does anyone still whine about the wasted death of Banshee just to bulk Vulcan the Retcon God up? Nope. The Internet cracked in half when Colossus died. No one noticed poor Sean.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

People stop b****ing about stuff over time, but Zemo's ******ification is still ongoing.

And I have tried Daredevil and various X-Men comics numerous times, but I find them to not be to my tastes. How many issues of Zemo's time in Thunderbolts did you actually try again?

 

[JewishHobbit]

I only read some of the Heroic Zemo stuff and I haven't read any of the Cap run.... but any regression annoys me.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Does anyone still whine about the wasted death of Banshee just to bulk Vulcan the Retcon God up? Nope. The Internet cracked in half when Colossus died. No one noticed poor Sean.

I freakin' noticed

I still don't care for Brubaker due to it, that plus he's not very original.

 

[kguillou]

I'll never forgive Brubaker for Deadly Genesis. I dont know what stupid juice he was drinking when he nearly destroyed Prof X's characterization and brought in yet another summers family member. Brubaker seems to like the whole "dig up something from the past and have it bite you in ass now" thing and its starting to get tiring. I loved his Captain America for a long time but now it seems like the only stories he's telling are "Bucky's done something bad in his past and its come back to haunt him". Why cant we just move on and look forward and write new adventures? Why does everything have to be a "hidden backstory" story??

 

[Tron Bonne]

I'll never forgive Brubaker for Deadly Genesis. I dont know what stupid juice he was drinking when he nearly destroyed Prof X's characterization and brought in yet another summers family member. Brubaker seems to like the whole "dig up something from the past and have it bite you in ass now" thing and its starting to get tiring. I loved his Captain America for a long time but now it seems like the only stories he's telling are "Bucky's done something bad in his past and its come back to haunt him". Why cant we just move on and look forward and write new adventures? Why does everything have to be a "hidden backstory" story??

He has? Isn't this the first story to really deal directly with something of Bucky's past coming back to bite him in the ass? Thus far, it's mostly been him trying to get over his past himself, not really something coming back to bite him from what I've been reading, unless I missed something or am just totally misremembering.

 

[Dread]

People stop b****ing about stuff over time, but Zemo's ******ification is still ongoing.

And I have tried Daredevil and various X-Men comics numerous times, but I find them to not be to my tastes. How many issues of Zemo's time in Thunderbolts did you actually try again?

About as many issues of Dynamo 5 that you tried.

I freakin' noticed

I still don't care for Brubaker due to it, that plus he's not very original.

I wouldn't go that far. But to me, DEADLY GENESIS always stands out as that reminder that Brubaker's not perfect (and is capable of downright rubbish).

I'll never forgive Brubaker for Deadly Genesis. I dont know what stupid juice he was drinking when he nearly destroyed Prof X's characterization and brought in yet another summers family member. Brubaker seems to like the whole "dig up something from the past and have it bite you in ass now" thing and its starting to get tiring. I loved his Captain America for a long time but now it seems like the only stories he's telling are "Bucky's done something bad in his past and its come back to haunt him". Why cant we just move on and look forward and write new adventures? Why does everything have to be a "hidden backstory" story??

He seems to have a routine. It worked for the Winter Soldier arc and overall it works, but I have noticed the pattern. That's the meme that he used for STEVE ROGERS: SUPER SOLDIER too, even if it was just mostly a ruse by a villain messing with him.

I did like Vulcan as the big villain of a space event, but Banshee's death was completely unneeded. At least Colossus, via some shoddy writing, died for a greater good, to cure the Legacy Virus. Banshee was offed for really no functional reason, other than to give Vulcan a notable body. The story would have played out exactly the same without it.

For better or worse, he likes his retcons, and he likes his tragic pasts and stories from it. For that reason, perhaps we shouldn't be so quickly dismissing the Nick Fury working with the villains in SECRET AVENGERS as an LMD or an impostor quite yet. He could be mind controlled or somehow still Fury.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I can't really fault Brubaker for past-coming-back-to-haunt-the-hero stories in Captain America. Whether it's Steve or Bucky, Cap is so rooted in WWII that a large percentage of the stories associated with the character are always past-comes-back-to-haunt-the-hero ones.

 

[Dread]

He has? Isn't this the first story to really deal directly with something of Bucky's past coming back to bite him in the ass? Thus far, it's mostly been him trying to get over his past himself, not really something coming back to bite him from what I've been reading, unless I missed something or am just totally misremembering.

There was the arc before REBORN in which the husband of a woman that Barnes killed in China as the Winter Soldier (who had been a boy in China Barnes ironically saved as Bucky before the Cold War) became a mad scientist, revived the old war criminal the Man Without A Face and proceeded to go about hiring Batroc to steal Human Torch's android corpse to use to create a "combustion virus". It was a mess that began from Barnes' time as Winter Soldier, so much so that he donned that garb to resolve it. Which he did, with some aid from Namor.

 

[Tron Bonne]

There was the arc before REBORN in which the husband of a woman that Barnes killed in China as the Winter Soldier became a mad scientist, revived the old war criminal the Man Without A Face and proceeded to go about hiring Batroc to steal Human Torch's android corpse to use to create a "combustion virus". It was a mess that began from Barnes' time as Winter Soldier, so much so that he donned that garb to resolve it. Which he did, with some aid from Namor.

Ah, yes, I had forgotten about that one. Still, that's just one arc, though, it's not as if his whole run with Bucky has been nothing but that kind of stuff. It has been rooted in his past, though, but more in a self-exploration way, at least that's the way I've taken it

 

[Phaedrus45]

Zemo in Captain America doesn't bother me in the least. When I read him in T-Bolts, we were always second guessing whether he was playing everyone to suit some evil purpose, or if he'd truly turned into a good guy. (And, face it, he was never really that good.) Plus, as I think someone else stated, Zemo and Bucky have history. That alone might make him change. (Plus, there is no knowing for sure if this Zemo is T-Bolts Zemo. The mask has stayed on, and something in an earlier issue made it sound as if they may not be one and the same.)

Oh, and back to some quick reviews.

Thor #613


This issue didn't do much for me. Thor's trip through the many regions of Hell just felt like Gillen was wasting time until the next issue. We all knew Thor wouldn't be able to lift that sword...and, more than likely, Tyr will be the one who does. What I'm most interested in is Kelda; but, we only got 3 pages with her in it. (Looks like she wants to exact some revenge on Balder!) With how everything was drawn out in this issue, I'm hoping it picks up with the next.

Fantastic Four #582

I'm fast becoming a non-fan of Hickman. This Nathaniel Richards storyline kind of bored me; and, I hated all the time travel elements to the story. Half the time I was a bit confused with what was happening, especially why Valeria and Franklin were doing what they felt they had to do. And, in the end, it felt more of a prologue to "Three." Of course, most of Hickman's time on F4 has been a bunch of prologues that don't seem to go anywhere.

I'm seriously hoping Three picks up the action. Lately, some of Marvel's biggest books is more about dialogue than action.

Secret Warriors #19

This issue wraps up the "Last Ride Of The Howling Commandos;" but, like with every Hickman comic, that doesn't mean a whole lot. The Commandos who die aren't anyone significant; and, while a new storyline is suppose to start next issue, it just feels like it's gonna be more of the same. So many elements from past issues are still unanswered; and, this felt like a diversionary story that got away from the whole Secret Warriors that Hickman had been writing about before. IN fact, it peeved me off quite a bit. Hickman's stories seem to be never-ending...and, half this issue was devoted to sentimental memories of fallen Commandos from years before.

Black Widow #5

Good conclusion to the first storyline; although, I do have one complaint that I keep coming back to. I really wish a writer would do a Black Widow storyline that is about more than Black Widow's past as a spy. In a way, most every mini that I've read and own (of which I have them all), all deal with this same kind of theme. This is a character with a rich history beyond the first 20 years of her life. How nice would it be to see a writer expand on that?

Ultimate Mystery #2

This is one of those Bendis issues that is a lot more talk and a whole lot of nothing else. I guess it sets up the next issue, where it seems we'll have a lot more action. But, as we're on the second mini of this storyline, I wanted a bit more. I do love the Jessica Drew stuff; but, would probably rather see that expanded on more in her own mini.

Dark Wolverine #90

This comic has really gone downhill, as we prepare for a new relaunch next month. It's felt as if we're just biding our time; and, this final issue is a whole lot of narration about nothing. We see Daken walking through the city, thinking about what his next path in life is going to be; and, the only hint about that comes in two pages of a tarot reader who picks up on his presence. (And, even that tells us a whole lot of nothing.) I would venture a guess that old storylines will finally be dropped; and we can get away from the Logan vs. Daken stuff that continually comes up. It also might appear that Daken will fight for the side of good...which I think would be a huge mistake.

Spider-Man #5

I like Tobin's take of Spider-Man in this Marvel Adventures title. While the stories might not be as good as previous issues, I do love that the issues build on each other. Spidey just took out Bullseye in the last issue, and in this one he's down for the count. The mob is looking to finish him off, while his girlfriend, Chat, is trying to locate him, too. The book has a nice innocence to it; which is something that is sorely missing in Spidey's regular 616 adventures. It's a comic your kids can enjoy, without having it dumbed down to them....and, that an adult can come away with a smile on their face, too.

 

[Phaedrus45]

A Diamond shipping delay prevented it from hitting comic shops in New York, as well as in California. I should be able to get it next week.

I figured that must be the case, that you simply haven't been able to pick it up yet. For that reason, I didn't reveal hardly a thing about the issue. You're the only other person on here reading it, no matter how much we might recommend that book. The couple surprises I wanted you to experience when it came out.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Zemo in Captain America doesn't bother me in the least. When I read him in T-Bolts, we were always second guessing whether he was playing everyone to suit some evil purpose, or if he'd truly turned into a good guy.

I don't know, not read it myself, but taking a shot to the face for Captain America seems pretty heroic to me, unless like everything else he did was completely questionable.