Brett Ratner saved the X-Men franchise?

[Hound55]

Definitely. I don't like Brett Ratner (though I like the Rush Hour films). I think he's a mediocre director.

I was just speaking in general. Godfather was just a bad example.

Just out of curiosity, you like the Rush Hour films but dislike Brett Ratner's work generally...

Which things exactly have gotten to you the worst out of what he's made.

I mean, I don't particularly like Ratner myself but I think its been far too "cool" and "the in thing" to just drop hate on Ratner.

And yes I think he's a hack... although I've liked a few individual things he's made; Money Talks (although I was younger at the time and don't know how well it would stand up to another viewing now I'm a bit older) Red Dragon and the first Rush Hour movie.

Rush Hour was not a strong enough premise to stretch to two films really, let alone three. Can't say I ever plan on seeing The Family Man or After the Sunset to be honest...

Its more that dude is lowest common denominator like a Michael Bay rather than bad per se...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The same could be said for Singer. He had no interest in doing X-Men at first, it took alot of convincing to get him on board.

Then he bailed out of X3 to do Superman because he thought that was the bigger franchise. Now he's trying to get back in X-Men because he sees there's money there.

He also made two subpar X films that were unfaithful, lacked character, and lacked action. Ratner and the writers for X3 had to pick up where he left off. They had to work with a storline that centered around chacaters that had been pushed aside in the previous films and were surely unfavorable now.

It's a shame that you are in the minority there.

No character? No action? Do me a favour. Go watch them again.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Just out of curiosity, you like the Rush Hour films but dislike Brett Ratner's work generally...

Which things exactly have gotten to you the worst out of what he's made.

I mean, I don't particularly like Ratner myself but I think its been far too "cool" and "the in thing" to just drop hate on Ratner.

And yes I think he's a hack... although I've liked a few individual things he's made; Money Talks (although I was younger at the time and don't know how well it would stand up to another viewing now I'm a bit older) Red Dragon and the first Rush Hour movie.

Rush Hour was not a strong enough premise to stretch to two films really, let alone three. Can't say I ever plan on seeing The Family Man or After the Sunset to be honest...

Its more that dude is lowest common denominator like a Michael Bay rather than bad per se...

I like the Rush Hour films because of Chris Tucker. He's the only reason I liked 2 and 3. The first Rush Hour I liked for more than Chris Tucker. 2 and 3 was weak storyline wise, but Chris Tucker was still funny IMO.

And I didn't like the Family Man or Red Dragon. I never saw After the Sunset.

 

[Legion]

It's a shame that you are in the minority there.

No character? No action? Do me a favour. Go watch them again.

The majority of the X-Men don't do anything and have very few lines. Even Wolverine who is shoved in your face isn't accurately portrayed. And how can you expect anyone coming out of X1 or X2 to think "Wow Cyclops is so awsome! he's my favorite".

By the time X3 came along it would have been difficult to convince the main audience that this was a character that deserved a leading role. Someone who was a strong confident leader and was Jean's true Romance interest. I think even on a commentary on one of the first two movie James Marsden says there's a role reversal in his relationship in Jean. He wants a relationship and hes kind of sensitive which makes him kind of like the woman.

It was obvious that Jean was attracted to Logan because he is strong, confident, and rugged. An X3 where Scott should have been the lead, he would have needed to be the things he wasn't in X1 and 2. He needed to be strong and face unfathomable odds to save the woman he loves. He couldn't just transform into these things between X2 and 3. The character had already been greatly distanced from the audience. No one was going to be cheering him on to save his girl.

Ok, so where is the team action in X1? Where's the part where a group of mutants team up to fight earth's most powerful supervillain? The newbie Wolverine fights Mystique and Sabretooth while the vets Cyclops, Storm, and Jean have their hands full with...toad. The convenience of the plot allowed them to get around having an acton sequence with magneto. I mean Wolverine couldn't beat him and they werent going to let anyone else to do it so it worked out.

X2 X-men United. The x-men are never all together until the end of the movie. No group sequences. Of course they go the splitting up covers more ground approach again. Wolverine gets his mansion scene and his big fight against another mute villain. Cyclops get pwned by two women in this movie and then cries in the arm of the man thats been trying to steal his girl.

Popularity doesn't equal quality to me. If that was true then we could agree the Jonas bros. make great music and the Twilight movies are awesome. I hated X1 when it first came out. I liked X2 alot better and I kind warmed up to X1 later. But I still realize the flaws in these movies and wish we had gotten something better. I'm not gonna praise them because everyone else does. And I'm not going to blame Ratner because everyone else does. It was Singer's first two movies that made it hard to make the X3 everyone wishes they had gotten.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I can't be bothered to get into a full blown debate about it coz I've gone over this before. But I'll say this.

Mystique's chat with Nightcrawler in X-2. More characterization in one single line than the whole of X-3. FACT.

If you can't see the other great character moments in X-2 then well, you're blind.

And asking for 100% accuracy to the source material is asinine.

 

[GhostPoet]

But...but Cyclops was awesome!...hey did the thing...and shot the thing with his eye beam and then there was that other thing he did..........

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well Cyclops got stiffed for sure. But I ain't gonna write off X1 and X2 coz of that.

 

[BMM]

It was Singer's first two movies that made it hard to make the X3 everyone wishes they had gotten.

No they didn’t. I wanted to see X-Men 3 because of the first two movies, and there was no point, after walking out of X2, that I thought making X-Men 3 would be hard in any capacity. On the contrary, I thought they were handed a foolproof setup. Silly me. I underestimated the fools at Fox.

 

[I_am_iron_man]

X-Men 3 it's so bad.

 

[cronosred]

I can't be bothered to get into a full blown debate about it coz I've gone over this before. But I'll say this.

Mystique's chat with Nightcrawler in X-2. More characterization in one single line than the whole of X-3. FACT.

If you can't see the other great character moments in X-2 then well, you're blind.

And asking for 100% accuracy to the source material is asinine.

Didn't Storm and Rogue have the same type talk about the cure in X3?

 

[Legion]

I can't be bothered to get into a full blown debate about it coz I've gone over this before. But I'll say this.

Mystique's chat with Nightcrawler in X-2. More characterization in one single line than the whole of X-3. FACT.

If you can't see the other great character moments in X-2 then well, you're blind.

And asking for 100% accuracy to the source material is asinine.

X2 was really good but it could have been better. And I'm not asking for 100% accuracy, where did I say that? I'm asking for traits that are essential to these characters to be present.

Singer was setting up the Phoenix story but he didn't develop Cyclops and Jean enough. He didn't develop their relationship. Sure they had their moment towards the end of X2 but these two should be soul mates. It really didn't feel like that.

How bout a scene where they are discussing having children? The problems they'd have to face. Something that showed they were truley and in love and committed. Not something that Logan could ever get in the way of.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Didn't Storm and Rogue have the same type talk about the cure in X3?

Yea but it was just rehashed from X2.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

X2 was really good but it could have been better. And I'm not asking for 100% accuracy, where did I say that? I'm asking for traits that are essential to these characters to be present.

Singer was setting up the Phoenix story but he didn't develop Cyclops and Jean enough. He didn't develop their relationship. Sure they had their moment towards the end of X2 but these two should be soul mates. It really didn't feel like that.

How bout a scene where they are discussing having children? The problems they'd have to face. Something that showed they were truley and in love and committed. Not something that Logan could ever get in the way of.

You make some good points. I didn't say X1 and X2 were perfect. I just said they are 10000x better than X3.

There is a reason X3 made so much money...and it wasn't to do with how good it was. It was because A LOT of people loved the previous installments. If X2 wasn't a thoroughly good movie, X3 wouldn't of had the killer OW that it had.

 

[Stripesy Strip]

Something about X2 that annoyed me was exactly that: Jean and Scott's relationship wasn't developped enough so that we may care about them and what happens to then. You had Scott and Wolverine crying at the end yet somehow it feels fake because contrary to Jean dying in the comics where we saw the character for a long time and readers developped a connection with her and we know how Wolvie and Scott feel about her, in X-Men and X2 we didn't exactly had any of that other than a few sexual wink of the eyes.

 

[Theweepeople]

Here is some Brett Ratner news. It's a little old but, quite amusing as always.

http://defamer.gawker.com/5375724/brett-ratner-is-an-internet-celebrity-in-his-own-mind

 

[Reflex]

All that comes to mind when I think of Ratner is 'tool'. He is responsible for the tragic early demise of the X-Men franchise. I don't know what he was thinking to be honest. How do you take something as precious as X-Men and just change characters, kill characters, etc? It's absurd.

He didn't save the franchise, he was the death-nail. If there is an X4 or any new installment, it would have to be a reboot. How would you feel coming in and continuing from where this *****e left off? I couldn't. I think he is a over-hyped hack who should steer clear of anything involving characters that have been around for a while. He clearly doesn't care about the source material or the fans.

 

[Hound55]

All that comes to mind when I think of Ratner is 'tool'. He is responsible for the tragic early demise of the X-Men franchise. I don't know what he was thinking to be honest. How do you take something as precious as X-Men and just change characters, kill characters, etc? It's absurd.

He didn't save the franchise, he was the death-nail. If there is an X4 or any new installment, it would have to be a reboot. How would you feel coming in and continuing from where this *****e left off? I couldn't. I think he is a over-hyped hack who should steer clear of anything involving characters that have been around for a while. He clearly doesn't care about the source material or the fans.

Red Dragon was nice...

 

[cronosred]

All that comes to mind when I think of Ratner is 'tool'. He is responsible for the tragic early demise of the X-Men franchise. I don't know what he was thinking to be honest. How do you take something as precious as X-Men and just change characters, kill characters, etc? It's absurd.

He didn't save the franchise, he was the death-nail. If there is an X4 or any new installment, it would have to be a reboot. How would you feel coming in and continuing from where this *****e left off? I couldn't. I think he is a over-hyped hack who should steer clear of anything involving characters that have been around for a while. He clearly doesn't care about the source material or the fans.

I believe then director Matthew Vaughn, the writers, and Fox came up with most of the story before Ratner ever came on board, to say he was the death-nail is a bit unfair.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

I believe then director Matthew Vaughn, the writers, and Fox came up with most of the story before Ratner ever came on board, to say he was the death-nail is a bit unfair.

here's the thing, I really like X-3, but ratner is a complete and total ass

 

[flash13]

Ratner killed Cyclops for that alone he should never touch a comic book movie again!

 

[BMM]

Fox killed Cyclops long before Ratner was onboard. In fact, according to Kinberg and Penn, I believe the studio discussed disposing of Cyclops off-screen, between movies even.

 

[S. Grundy]

Red Dragon was nice...

If you haven't seen Manhunter.

I think it's being hyperbolic to say that he brought the franchise to an early demise. If Matthew Vaughn had directed the movie, it would have been a lot better, but chances are just as likely that Fox would have wanted to go into the prequel route with the series rather than do an X4.

I do think that they are totally making a bad movie by not having X-Men: First Class be a New Mutants movie and not another prequel.

 

[Octoberist]

Red Dragon was okay but uneventful.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I can't even remember Red Dragon.

As Jamie would say, It's is unfair to blame Ratner for X3's problems. Ratner was brought on at the last minute, he couldn't have saved the movie if he tried.

That being said, I didn't dislike X3 so...

 

[Octoberist]

I think it doesn't help that Brett Ratner is Brett Ratner, so he became THE target for fanboys. I honestly don't care him, however. If he was actually a creative and legitimately good filmmaker, then yes, I would have sympathy.