Brian Bendis Illuminates The Illuminati

[Kotagg]

I simply don't understand the whole "omglol continuity over logic" argument. What sort of logical human being cares about something like that? I mean honestly.

If it's stated the Captain America never killed anyone during WWII, and then later a writer spits in the face of that previous statement to say that he DID kill many people, I'll give the man a standing ovation.

This whole "only do it this way because that's the way it's always done" is just plain stupid, and on a deeper level it's the reason why many groups and ideas don't have any forward movement.

Logic should be the sovereign here, not tradition. If something is broken (meaning it doesn't make ANY god damn sense) then fix it. The Hulk not killing anyone? Get serious, he's likely killed hundreds (conceivably thousands) by now. Change that **** and try to forget that whoever said initially he hadn't killed anyone is a complete idiot.

 

[Darthphere]

I simply don't understand the whole "omglol continuity over logic" argument. What sort of logical human being cares about something like that? I mean honestly.

If it's stated the Captain America never killed anyone during WWII, and then later a writer spits in the face of that previous statement to say that he DID kill many people, I'll give the man a standing ovation.

This whole "only do it this way because that's the way it's always done" is just plain stupid, and on a deeper level it's the reason why many groups and ideas don't have any forward movement.

Logic should be the sovereign here, not tradition. If something is broken (meaning it doesn't make ANY god damn sense) then fix it. The Hulk not killing anyone? Get serious, he's likely killed hundreds (conceivably thousands) by now. Change that **** and try to forget that whoever said initially he hadn't killed anyone is a complete idiot.

Wow, you make absoultely no sense. In between all the cursing and language all I got was whine whine whine.

 

[Darthphere]

I find it funny, oh man a guy that got hit with Gamma radiation and survived but now turns into a monster every time hes angry is cool. What hes never killed? Illogical! Does anybody else see the irony?

 

[Darthphere]

Also, what some of you are forgetting about the Illuminati sending Hulk into space is ****ING BRUCE BANNER! Theres a freaking human being in there! Seriously, are we forgetting about the poor guy who risked his life to save a kid and now is under this horrible curse?

 

[Rez]

I completely agree with many things being illogical. I also think that yes, things should be done to "fix" these illogical things. The Hulk not killing anyone is stupid, yes.

However, it IS continuity. And that should be respected.

But there is NO REASON why things should be stuck to a status quo. If the story was something along the lines of "The Hulk cost the lives of 600 innocent civillians in his newest rampage... Well, it was bound to happen eventually" Then it would be great. It would be a logicial progression of events and charecter, WITHOUT spitting on previous continuity.

Change and continuity can co-exist.

It's sad that most people don't seem to realize this.

 

[Manic]

They want to say the Hulk killed people yesterday? Fine. They want to say he did it years ago after another comic just said he never killed anyone before? That's disrespectful to other writers. It's saying "I don't like what you wrote, so not only am I ignoring it, but I'm saying the exact opposite."

 

[Wolverazio]

I completely agree with many things being illogical. I also think that yes, things should be done to "fix" these illogical things. The Hulk not killing anyone is stupid, yes.

However, it IS continuity. And that should be respected.

But there is NO REASON why things should be stuck to a status quo. If the story was something along the lines of "The Hulk cost the lives of 600 innocent civillians in his newest rampage... Well, it was bound to happen eventually" Then it would be great. It would be a logicial progression of events and charecter, WITHOUT spitting on previous continuity.

Change and continuity can co-exist.

It's sad that most people don't seem to realize this.

Amen (trying to remember who else mentioned this...though it might not be in this thread).

 

[Darthphere]

I completely agree with many things being illogical. I also think that yes, things should be done to "fix" these illogical things. The Hulk not killing anyone is stupid, yes.

However, it IS continuity. And that should be respected.

But there is NO REASON why things should be stuck to a status quo. If the story was something along the lines of "The Hulk cost the lives of 600 innocent civillians in his newest rampage... Well, it was bound to happen eventually" Then it would be great. It would be a logicial progression of events and charecter, WITHOUT spitting on previous continuity.

Change and continuity can co-exist.

It's sad that most people don't seem to realize this.

Exactly!

 

[Kotagg]

Darthphere, my post was laid out well enough, and honestly your lack of intelligent response to it, paired with your insulting tone, only go to reinforce my opinion of you.

I find it funny, oh man a guy that got hit with Gamma radiation and survived but now turns into a monster every time hes angry is cool. What hes never killed? Illogical! Does anybody else see the irony

See now, if you want your arguments to bear any semblance of verisimilitude, you have to think about things to their final conclusion. Are you implying with this statement that NO logic of ANY sort applies in the Marvel universe simply because super heroes aren't real?

Any Fantasy setting becomes realistic through suspdended disbelief because of the fact that they create their OWN laws of reality and such. That said, in the Marvel universe, superpowers are common. Does this then make it that no logic of any sort applies?

No. If a man throws a tank into a building, people die. By your logic, it's fair to say that no laws of logic or reality apply - that's just silly.

Change and continuity can co-exist.

Rez, I agree. However, when continuity is as brainless as saying the Hulk never killed anyone, I feel that it doesn't need to be respected. In fact, I would say that that sort of thing is fully entitled to being DISrespected.

 

[Manic]

Rez, I agree. However, when continuity is as brainless as saying the Hulk never killed anyone, I feel that it doesn't need to be respected. In fact, I would say that that sort of thing is fully entitled to being DISrespected.

If that's how you feel, then let's just say Storm was never worshipped as a goddess. Lord knows that it makes African people sound like a bunch of savage jungle bunnies. "Strange woman make rain fall. We worship. Hakuna matata. Awimbaway, awimbaway."

 

[Darren Daring]

sooooooo, he was labeling this jokes?

 

[BrianWilly]

They want to say the Hulk killed people yesterday? Fine. They want to say he did it years ago after another comic just said he never killed anyone before? That's disrespectful to other writers. It's saying "I don't like what you wrote, so not only am I ignoring it, but I'm saying the exact opposite."

I absolutely agree with this.

I mean, I absolutely don't mind what Bendis revealed about the Hulk because it really is a case of cold hard logic taking precedence over mindless tradition, but I also absolutely agree with your post.

 

[Darthphere]

Darthphere, my post was laid out well enough, and honestly your lack of intelligent response to it, paired with your insulting tone, only go to reinforce my opinion of you.

See now, if you want your arguments to bear any semblance of verisimilitude, you have to think about things to their final conclusion. Are you implying with this statement that NO logic of ANY sort applies in the Marvel universe simply because super heroes aren't real?

Any Fantasy setting becomes realistic through suspdended disbelief because of the fact that they create their OWN laws of reality and such. That said, in the Marvel universe, superpowers are common. Does this then make it that no logic of any sort applies?

No. If a man throws a tank into a building, people die. By your logic, it's fair to say that no laws of logic or reality apply - that's just silly.



Rez, I agree. However, when continuity is as brainless as saying the Hulk never killed anyone, I feel that it doesn't need to be respected. In fact, I would say that that sort of thing is fully entitled to being DISrespected.

First of all, excellent word there.

Secondly, Yes. In a universe where peopley can fly and shoot lasers out of there eyes, I dont see how someone not dying do to Hulk's rampage is out of the question. It all comes down to a suspension on disbelief. You can easily believe that alen soldier have come to Earth to invade and that Spider-Man is swinging around the city, why not the Hulk not killing anybody? Tornadoes and natural disatsters have caused similar destruction to Hulk and not all of the m result in deaths. For that matter, SUperman has killed thousands as well, being thrown into bu8ildings by a villain every week, he mustve killed someone by now, damn well near hundreds.

 

[The Question]

That's not the same kind of logic. Suspending disbeleif for a character to have super powers is one thing. Suspending disbeleif so an eight foot tall rampaging bullet proof monster doesn't kill anyone accidentally when he's smashing stuff up is another. And, also, it's never been stated that The Hulk's never killed anyone. The only time that anyone's said that was in She-Hulk, and Jenifer's his cousin, so of course she's going to be looking at it from a biased perspective.

 

[Darthphere]

That's not the same kind of logic. Suspending disbeleif for a character to have super powers is one thing. Suspending disbeleif so an eight foot tall rampaging bullet proof monster doesn't kill anyone accidentally when he's smashing stuff up is another. And, also, it's never been stated that The Hulk's never killed anyone. The only time that anyone's said that was in She-Hulk, and Jenifer's his cousin, so of course she's going to be looking at it from a biased perspective.

Its all the same logic Question. You either believe it all or dont believe it and move on. As ive said, by that same logic Superman has killed hundreds of people in his battles in metropolis where he destroys half the city. Oh no but its SUperman he doesnt kill. But its almost the same exact situation. But since Hulk is a big green monster, yeah hes a killer. We all forget that theres a man under all that and most of the time hes provoked. I can believe that he hasnt killed anybody because I read freakin' comics. If I wanted to read about a Hulk that killed id read Ultimates and watch him bite people's heads off. I dont know why its so importnat for you guys to have Hulk be a killer. Is it logical? Yes. Is it possible hes never killed anyone? Yes. Logic can be applied in a way in form to any side of an argument.

 

[DBM]

That's not the same kind of logic. Suspending disbeleif for a character to have super powers is one thing. Suspending disbeleif so an eight foot tall rampaging bullet proof monster doesn't kill anyone accidentally when he's smashing stuff up is another. And, also, it's never been stated that The Hulk's never killed anyone. The only time that anyone's said that was in She-Hulk, and Jenifer's his cousin, so of course she's going to be looking at it from a biased perspective.

It has been stated before. Several times. I can't give you specific issues off the top of my head and I'm at work so I can't check, but believe me, it has been stated before that he's never killed any innocent person. It's been stated as recently as a just a year or so ago.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I completely agree with many things being illogical. I also think that yes, things should be done to "fix" these illogical things. The Hulk not killing anyone is stupid, yes.

However, it IS continuity. And that should be respected.

But there is NO REASON why things should be stuck to a status quo. If the story was something along the lines of "The Hulk cost the lives of 600 innocent civillians in his newest rampage... Well, it was bound to happen eventually" Then it would be great. It would be a logicial progression of events and charecter, WITHOUT spitting on previous continuity.

Change and continuity can co-exist.

It's sad that most people don't seem to realize this.

Damn. Rez wins.

That's my problem with the whole thing. It's not that Bendis didn't like the fact that the Hulk hasn't killed and decided to change that; that's every writer's prerogative. Retconning it so that his story directly contradicts several stories that came before is the misstep. There's no reason the Hulk couldn't have gone more savage than ever and accidentally killed a few dozen people or massacred a whole town more recently.

 

[Darthphere]

Damn. Rez wins.

That's my problem with the whole thing. It's not that Bendis didn't like the fact that the Hulk hasn't killed and decided to change that; that's every writer's prerogative. Retconning it so that his story directly contradicts several stories that came before is the misstep. There's no reason the Hulk couldn't have gone more savage than ever and accidentally killed a few dozen people or massacred a whole town more recently.

Thats my problem as well, and the fact that for some reason these people HAVE to make Hulk a killer.

 

[The_Mystery]

The way I see it, every time the Hulk went berserk and started destroying buildings in the city, the people just happened to be out of town on vacation jk

 

[Doc Destruction]

I'd go so far as to say that he knows what you NEED better than you do.

Comics fans need to get out of their asses and get ready for CHANGE. This whole "We like our stagnant comic characters, weee" mentality is genuinely starting too annoy me.

Speaking of annoying...

READ MY SIG.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Heh, it's amazing how many times I've had to say that on these boards.

The sig itself, I mean, not "read my sig." You know what I mean.

 

[rjb182]

Its all the same logic Question. You either believe it all or dont believe it and move on.

No, it is two different kinds of logic.

Good sci-fi/fantasy takes something that can't happen, changes reality so that it can, and writes about what happens next. But it proceeds in a logical fashion from that changed reality. "If A, then B."

Bad sci-fi/fantasy assumes that since what it's writing about isn't real, you can do any old darn thing and the readers won't notice, or if they do, they're just geeks so who cares. "If A, then... I dunno, L? Pick a letter."

That's where the old "write what you know" shtick comes in, to my mind. It's not that you have to have experienced what you're writing about-- for SF writers, that's quite impossible. It's that you have to know your situation-- know it so well that you understand automatically what WOULD happen if any of this WERE real.

Concepts can be outlandish. In the words of Emma Frost, "I turn into a diamond sometimes-- are we really going to discuss what's possible?" That's fair enough.

But LOGIC has to remain. Emma didn't say "I turn into a diamond sometimes, therefore we can also assume the moon is made of Jell-O."

Having rambled for so long, I do agree with the idea that it would probably have been smarter to write it so the Hulk kills NOW and deal with those consequences, rather than retroactively rewriting the last 40 years. If only because the fans are bound to react to the first way better...

 

[Darthphere]

No, it is two different kinds of logic.

Good sci-fi/fantasy takes something that can't happen, changes reality so that it can, and writes about what happens next. But it proceeds in a logical fashion from that changed reality. "If A, then B."

Bad sci-fi/fantasy assumes that since what it's writing about isn't real, you can do any old darn thing and the readers won't notice, or if they do, they're just geeks so who cares. "If A, then... I dunno, L? Pick a letter."

That's where the old "write what you know" shtick comes in, to my mind. It's not that you have to have experienced what you're writing about-- for SF writers, that's quite impossible. It's that you have to know your situation-- know it so well that you understand automatically what WOULD happen if any of this WERE real.

Concepts can be outlandish. In the words of Emma Frost, "I turn into a diamond sometimes-- are we really going to discuss what's possible?" That's fair enough.

But LOGIC has to remain. Emma didn't say "I turn into a diamond sometimes, therefore we can also assume the moon is made of Jell-O."

Having rambled for so long, I do agree with the idea that it would probably have been smarter to write it so the Hulk kills NOW and deal with those consequences, rather than retroactively rewriting the last 40 years. If only because the fans are bound to react to the first way better...

Logic, as a whole can be warped and changed to fit any argument. The rule of logic in the Marvel universe does not exist. If a character can fly, its possible that people would survive a rampage by Hulk. We have mutants who can alter sates of probability and luck....it all fits under the same logic.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Oh damn, I forgot to add:

Brian, take care of solo hero noir adventures and leave SUPER HERO books to people who know how to write them.

Oh, and have a nice big slice of humble pie, because your attitude is jackassery at the highest pinnacle.

 

[The_Mystery]

I bet they have "Hulk-drills" in schools and office buildings

P.S. Don't take that idea, cause if I get hired by Marvel I'm usin' it