Hulk and the Illuminati (SPOILERS!)

[Mr. Green]

WARNING: THIS POST INCLUDES SPOILERS RELATING TO NEW AVENGERS: ILLUMINATI ISSUE #1.

In New Avengers: Illuminati they mention that in that FF issue where Hulk beats tears up Las Vegas, Hulk killed 26 people, including 2 children, and a dog.

Not only that, but Iron Man asks the SHIELD commander, "How many this time, Commander Hill?" As if this isn't the first time Hulk has rendered numerous civillians dead.

Let me just say this: What the HELL?! Ultimate Hulk kills civillians in his rampages, but this is 616 and not even the Savage Hulk would do anything to kill innocents. More importantly, HE HASN'T. EVER.

Maybe I'm mistaken, and he has killed innocents accidently, but just keep THIS quote in mind...

Doc Samson: "When was the last time you saw the Hulk kill anybody, let alone a kid?" (Incredible Hulk #36, vol. 2)

Hulk doesn't murder innocents. 'NUFF SAID.

 

[Abaddon]

Some debris probably just fell on them or something.

 

[torkibe]

Well... back in #4 when Tyrannus was controlling his powers he brought down an airplane and killed hundreds. That's probably what they were referring to.

 

[rodhulk]

WARNING: THIS POST INCLUDES SPOILERS RELATING TO NEW AVENGERS: ILLUMINATI ISSUE #1.

In New Avengers: Illuminati they mention that in that FF issue where Hulk beats tears up Las Vegas, Hulk killed 26 people, including 2 children, and a dog.

Not only that, but Iron Man asks the SHIELD commander, "How many this time, Commander Hill?" As if this isn't the first time Hulk has rendered numerous civillians dead.

Let me just say this: What the HELL?! Ultimate Hulk kills civillians in his rampages, but this is 616 and not even the Savage Hulk would do anything to kill innocents. More importantly, HE HASN'T. EVER.

Maybe I'm mistaken, and he has killed innocents accidently, but just keep THIS quote in mind...

Doc Samson: "When was the last time you saw the Hulk kill anybody, let alone a kid?" (Incredible Hulk #36, vol. 2)

Hulk doesn't murder innocents. 'NUFF SAID.

Yeah, this doesn't sound too good.

 

[Mr. Green]

Well... back in #4 when Tyrannus was controlling his powers he brought down an airplane and killed hundreds. That's probably what they were referring to.

Well, it seemed like they meant that this has happened numerous times before. Other than times that Hulk was being controlled by certain villains, I don't know when Hulk's rampages have ever resulted in the deaths of innocents. Even if it's just from Hulk smashing down buildings, I never found any evidence of this.

They say that innocent lives are being ended because he walks the Earth. That is so lame. It's like they make him a killer just to make the plot work.

 

[torkibe]

Well, it seemed like they meant that this has happened numerous times before. Other than times that Hulk was being controlled by certain villains, I don't know when Hulk's rampages have ever resulted in the deaths of innocents. Even if it's just from Hulk smashing down buildings, I never found any evidence of this.

They say that innocent lives are being ended because he walks the Earth. That is so lame. It's like they make him a killer just to make the plot work.

I agree. I guess they just needed a real reason (the writers) other than property damage to expell him from the Earth and set up Planet Hulk and Civil War. I like the way Namor stuck up for him. That was awesome!

 

[Mr. Green]

Yeah, that was awesome! Namor is my second favorite Marvel hero because of that. I hope he does some serious ass kicking in Civil War, because he already beat Iron Man's ass.

 

[torkibe]

Yeah, that was awesome! Namor is my second favorite Marvel hero because of that. I hope he does some serious ass kicking in Civil War, because he already beat Iron Man's ass.

Dude, he would have drowned his ass if Dr. Strange didn't intervene...

 

[Red Mask]

What disturbs me about this issue is what Professor X discovered. If he could kill himself he'd have done it long ago. Does this mean those guys would be fine if Banner commited suicide?

 

[Mr. Green]

I don't think so... I think that the people in the Illuminati except for Black Bolt, really care about Banner. I am on Namor's side of the argument, as are most Hulk fans, but they are his friends. Of course, that just makes it even MORE f-ed up that Namor is the only one against shooting him into space.

I mean, come on. Sure, Hulk will be happy, but will Bruce?

As for Bruce wanting to kill himself, this was addressed in Jones' run. He said that he would kill himself but he is afraid that the Hulk would take over while he died, just leaving the unbridled rage of the Hulk.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

WARNING: THIS POST INCLUDES SPOILERS RELATING TO NEW AVENGERS: ILLUMINATI ISSUE #1.

In New Avengers: Illuminati they mention that in that FF issue where Hulk beats tears up Las Vegas, Hulk killed 26 people, including 2 children, and a dog.

Not only that, but Iron Man asks the SHIELD commander, "How many this time, Commander Hill?" As if this isn't the first time Hulk has rendered numerous civillians dead.

Let me just say this: What the HELL?! Ultimate Hulk kills civillians in his rampages, but this is 616 and not even the Savage Hulk would do anything to kill innocents. More importantly, HE HASN'T. EVER.

Maybe I'm mistaken, and he has killed innocents accidently, but just keep THIS quote in mind...

Doc Samson: "When was the last time you saw the Hulk kill anybody, let alone a kid?" (Incredible Hulk #36, vol. 2)

Hulk doesn't murder innocents. 'NUFF SAID.

They had to justify it somehow....I guess we can forget about the monster with the mind of an angry child :

 

[drastic_quench]

He's destroyed enough over the years that it makes complete sense. Sure, in 616 he never went around ripping people in half, but come on, how many "vacant buildings" can you topple before you destroy one with someone inside?

 

[Mr. Green]

If they said that he killed people in Las Vegas I wouldn't have a problem with it. He was kind of in a blind rage in those issues. But they act like he kills civillians every time he Hulks out.

Let's work backwards here...

The current incarnation of the Hulk is much like one Stan used back in the day. The powers of Savage Hulk with some brains and an attitude. Kind of like a strong Gray Hulk. He wouldn't do anything to that would put lives in jeopardy, no matter how pissed he got.

The Hulk in Bruce Jones' run dealt with what would happen if Hulk had killed a little boy by accident on one of his rampages. It turns out he was being framed, but it pretty much went with the fact that Hulk would be a wanted man if he DID kill innocents. That incarnation never killed innocents and was, for the most part, controlled by Banner.

Of course, the merged Hulk (proffessor), Has a lot of the intelligence of Bruce Banner, so he wouldn't do anything that would result in dying innocents either.

Despite Joe Fixit's attitude, the Gray Hulk is no killer, and also has the intelligence to avoid the loss of innocent life.

So that accounts for the last 20 years or so. Before that, Marvel DEFINATELY didn't have Hulk kill people with the crazy stuff he did. He was always saving lives, not puting them in danger.

Point: I guess I wouldn't be so annoyed if they hadn't acted like Banner Hulks out and smashes filled apartment buildings every other day. It just takes away from the fact that Hulk is a HERO. That sucks.

I loved the issue for the most part. I think Bendis does GREAT dialogue, and he is an awesome writer. I also think that he doesn't know what to do with the Hulk, and that he avoids writing him. They made Hulk a FREQUENT CAUSE OF DEATH for innocents and that sucks.

 

[drastic_quench]

Is Loeb and Sales Hulk:Gray in continuity? I don't think it is, but he does kill a few soldiers in a jeep when they accidently hit him in the road.

 

[Red Mask]

He's destroyed enough over the years that it makes complete sense. Sure, in 616 he never went around ripping people in half, but come on, how many "vacant buildings" can you topple before you destroy one with someone inside?

Good point. I can say the same thing about the destruction in DC's comics, but we're supposed to believe it's okay after the JLA wins the day. These comics have got to tone down the big battles.

 

[Mr. Green]

I didn't read Hulk: Gray, but I don't think it's in continuity either. Stuff like soldiers dying when they crash their cars into Hulk makes sense. And I guess people dying during Hulk's city-destroying battles makes sense also.

The thing is, if Hulk has a battle, usually a bad guy is involved that Hulk is stopping. All the destruction is usually nothing compared to what the destruction would be if the villain was unapposed.

Again, I liked the Illuminati issue, and I love Planet Hulk, but I am just uneasy with Hulk being the cause of so much death. It makes him into more of a villain than a hero.

 

[IronSpidy]

Wow, this indeed is disturbing....

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Yes well it is unfortunate they went this way to justify sending him off the planet. because it will make it that much more difficult fo him to re-integrate Earth

 

[Mr. Green]

I wouldn't mind if it were difficult for Hulk to re-integrate with Earth. I just wish they found a different reason.

I personally hope that it is VERY difficult for EVERYBODY in the Illuminati minus Namor. Remember how Hulk and Namor teamed up against the Avengers and stuff? They should do that AGAIN! It would be the greatest thing EVER.

 

[Langoth]

I agree with the fact the Hulk HAS killed people.

Now I'm sorry, he wouldn't mean to do it, he wouldn't, but this guy presses one hundred tons. Every time he punches something, SHOCKWAVES should eminate, killing those around for METERS.

The Hulk is like a bull in a china-shop, and the plates are people. He's probably killed hundreds. He does not mean to do it. He's not grabbing them and shredding them.

But he knocks down buildings. He rips apart tanks, he runs through traffic. Even just fighting some of the villains he has, has probably killed civilians.

Debris alone has probably killed at LEAST hundreds.

 

[MajinShenron]

Hulk would kill people if they got him mad enough. He even threatened to kill Hercules once.

But would Hulk kill innocence? No he wouldn't. But put it this way. If you demolish a city, how can not one person not die? Even if it is accidently?

 

[Manwithoutpeer]

The Savage Hulk might kill someone by accident becuase he's so dumb and wild but IMO the Professor and 'Fixit and this current Hulk would not.

 

[Blayton]

What issues did the Hulk destroy Vegas?

 

[Mr. Green]

That would be Fantastic Four #s 333-335.