Budget Question

[Ultimate_Superman]

Are you guys crazy Peter and Nate's flying were great flying was great SV's on the other hand was good but looked to Matrix like.

 

[AgentPat]

so why does heroes have more money ? i didn't get it.

It's given a higher budget than SV simply because it's on NBC, it's shot in LA, and it garners significantly higher ad rates from sponsors. It also has the added benefit of *saving* coin because it's in its first season, it has a "no-name" cast, and it doesn't have to kick back franchise fees for character rights to a parent studio . Higher budget + ancillary savings = more coin to spend on eye candy.

As a point of comparison, "Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip," a 60 min dramady skein on the same network requires little to no effects, but it's allocated approximately the same budget as SV. It's broadcast on NBC, and it's produced in association with Warner Bros. Television.

BTW, I think SV's FX blow Heroes away, but that's JMHO.

 

[triplet]

BTW, I think SV's FX blow Heroes away, but that's JMHO.

I'm really enjoying Heroes but the F/X aren't that extensive... I think they spend a lot on the large ensemble and the numerous locations, not just the few F/X shots they've done.

I also think that SV is fantastic with what they do...

 

[KalKai]

Are you guys crazy Peter and Nate's flying were great flying was great SV's on the other hand was good but looked to Matrix like.

Wanna compare?

Nathan's (2006-7) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=VgdH3zzRD5o

Kal-El's (2004): http://youtube.com/watch?v=AT7NutySc4Y

Which 1 do you think costs more to make? Obviously Kal-El's.

Neo's flying was some good flying at the time, it was revolutionary.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I still prefer Heroes FX over SV's when they do use FX (Heroes that is) I am not saying Clark's flying wasn't great but Heroes IMO was better. Although SV's has improved on their flying/jumping by taking away that Matrix effect IMO.

 

[avidreader]

Wanna compare?

Nathan's (2006-7) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=VgdH3zzRD5o

Kal-El's (2004): http://youtube.com/watch?v=AT7NutySc4Y

Which 1 do you think costs more to make? Obviously Kal-El's.

Neo's flying was some good flying at the time, it was revolutionary.

Well I dont think there is any comparison. You really only saw Nathan land, which looked pretty cool but was probably done with wires, where as Clark's you saw him take off, fly in space, fly through the clouds and up to an aeroplane. Much more involved there.

Just a point of interest, in the latest Smallville Mag. they said it took them 19 days to shoot Zod. So there you have double the budget of a usual episode.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hero's FX are hit and miss IMO. Sometimes they can look great, like when Claire heals or the one guy passes through walls. Other times like when Sylar liquifies things or Ted emits radiation they look very video game-ish...

Peter's flight the other night looked a lot better than Nathan's in the desert but it looked like was mostly CG whereas SV green-screened the whole sequence with Clark ripping the plane door off, etc.

Another thing to consider about Heroes, is that a lot of the Heroes powers require relatively cheap effects. It's not like it costs a ton of money to show telekinesis, mind-reading, split personalities, or implied invisibility.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Well I dont think there is any comparison. You really only saw Nathan land, which looked pretty cool but was probably done with wires, where as Clark's you saw him take off, fly in space, fly through the clouds and up to an aeroplane. Much more involved there.

you do see Nathan take off , he basically just shot up like a rocket without even moving much and then shot around the sky like when they deflate a balloon in the Bugs Bunny cartoons. Hey it's Heroes fault for being cheap.

 

[AgentPat]

Are you guys *really* arguing which show has better effects? LOL

I dunno. On a whole, I don't think Heroes' FX comes *close* to Clark's super jumps in episodes like Insurrection, Hidden or Lucy, the "Clark Time" effects in episodes like Accelerate or Run, the slow motion saves with deflected objects (bullets, axes, glass, etc) in Fanatic, Freak, Obscura, Lineage, Fragile, Rage or Fade, the car-flipping effects in Covenant or Pariah, the formation of the FOS in Arrival or the helicopter tether in Exposed, all of the moving X-Ray scenes from dozens of episodes....

Yeah. Sorry Heroes. It's a turkey shoot.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Were not arguing over whose is better what my problem is how come Heroes can have their people do more flying and everything then SV can. If SV is the CW #1 show it should have the budget and writers Heroes has. I mean have you noticed that Heroes has gone 16 shows with no fillers.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Hero's FX are hit and miss IMO. Sometimes they can look great, like when Claire heals or the one guy passes through walls. Other times like when Sylar liquifies things or Ted emits radiation they look very video game-ish...

Peter's flight the other night looked a lot better than Nathan's in the desert but it looked like was mostly CG whereas SV green-screened the whole sequence with Clark ripping the plane door off, etc.

Another thing to consider about Heroes, is that a lot of the Heroes powers require relatively cheap effects. It's not like it costs a ton of money to show telekinesis, mind-reading, split personalities, or implied invisibility.

This is it.

Heroes just uses alot of innexpensive powers. I mean Internet Power, that costs like nothing. I was happy they introduced some actual effects-needed powers...like Claires mom's fire ability.

The effects when they are used are good, but I think Smallvilles blows them away by alot.

Hiro has probably the most effects heavy power.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Were not arguing over whose is better what my problem is how come Heroes can have their people do more flying and everything then SV can. If SV is the CW #1 show it should have the budget and writers Heroes has. I mean have you noticed that Heroes has gone 16 shows with no fillers.

That's not true....the episode with Hiro and the waitress girl in the past fit the filler description completely.

Here is the definition of filler:

In television, filler episodes in a continuity-based series are episodes that are not required to understand the basic story arcs. Filler episodes are often assumed to be used to pad out a weak story, especially if they are perceived to be of poor quality; however, filler episodes are sometimes used to give background to characters and events, or to give writers a chance to show off creativity and deviate from the standard mood of the series. The most common type of filler episode is a 'character episode' which focuses on the backstory or motivations of a single character without actually advancing the plot. Such episodes are useful in series which have large ensemble casts who cannot always be featured simultaneously.

We learned some about Hiro and his inner feelings, but it didn't serve the overall plot at all. Many people see filler as a bad thing, but sometimes it serves a great purpose.

 

[triplet]

Were not arguing over whose is better what my problem is how come Heroes can have their people do more flying and everything then SV can. If SV is the CW #1 show it should have the budget and writers Heroes has. I mean have you noticed that Heroes has gone 16 shows with no fillers.

I would argue that Smallville has no fillers, each episode has some impact on the overall story arcs for the season, no matter how minimally.

But people are just saying that the F/X that is in Heroes just aren't as expensive. SV puts more time and effort into their F/X...

It looks flawless nearly all the time whereas some of the F/X lately on Heroes has been very cheesy looking. The melting thing that Hulk mentioned, for example.

 

[Brainiac 8]

I would argue that Smallville has no fillers, each episode has some impact on the overall story arcs for the season, no matter how minimally.

But people are just saying that the F/X that is in Heroes just aren't as expensive. SV puts more time and effort into their F/X...

It looks flawless nearly all the time whereas some of the F/X lately on Heroes has been very cheesy looking. The melting thing that Hulk mentioned, for example.

I agree, some of the F/X in Heroes does not play well.

In the true sense by definition, all shows have filler. But the filler is there to expand on characters backstories or elaborate on their motivations...but that's not bad...too many people gripe and complain that there is that sort of stuff in the show, when it is necessary to the overall plot.

So in affect, stories can't thrive without filler.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

That's not true....the episode with Hiro and the waitress girl in the past fit the filler description completely.

Here is the definition of filler:

In television, filler episodes in a continuity-based series are episodes that are not required to understand the basic story arcs. Filler episodes are often assumed to be used to pad out a weak story, especially if they are perceived to be of poor quality; however, filler episodes are sometimes used to give background to characters and events, or to give writers a chance to show off creativity and deviate from the standard mood of the series. The most common type of filler episode is a 'character episode' which focuses on the backstory or motivations of a single character without actually advancing the plot. Such episodes are useful in series which have large ensemble casts who cannot always be featured simultaneously.

We learned some about Hiro and his inner feelings, but it didn't serve the overall plot at all. Many people see filler as a bad thing, but sometimes it serves a great purpose.

Not it wasn't it had long lasting impact on him.

1. He can't change the past
2. He lost his powers because of it.
3. It not only dealt with Hiro but how Nathan's car cash and how he learned he could fly.

See it wasn't a filler. SV on the other hand has tons of them. I just think they should have upped SV budget when they moved over to the CW and gave them a better writing staff.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Not it wasn't it had long lasting impact on him.(Not the story arcs currently running.)

1. He can't change the past(Expanded on Hiro's power)
2. He lost his powers because of it.(Expanded on Hiro's power and feelings)
3. It not only dealt with Hiro but how Nathan's car cash and how he learned he could fly.(Furthered the backstory of Nathan)

See it wasn't a filler. SV on the other hand has tons of them. I just think they should have upped SV budget when they moved over to the CW and gave them a better writing staff.

Filler Def: filler episodes are sometimes used to give background to characters and events

It was filler...it had nothing to do with Shureshes quest, Saving the Cheerleader, or Scyler. It was filler plain and simple.

It's ok though, what I'm saying is filler is necessary to tell a good story, since it teaches us about a character and their motivations.

If you like the show, that's good...but don't ignore filler on one show just because you like it better than another.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Filler Def: filler episodes are sometimes used to give background to characters and events

It was filler...it had nothing to do with Shureshes quest, Saving the Cheerleader, or Scyler. It was filler plain and simple.

It's ok though, what I'm saying is filler is necessary to tell a good story, since it teaches us about a character and their motivations.

If you like the show, that's good...but don't ignore filler on one show just because you like it better than another.

It also told how Scyler got some of his powers so it did have to do with Scyler as well as Shureshes.

Also if that is the def of Filler then where does that leave SV since when they do have fillers they don't even expand on anything??? Look I am not here to go back and forward if Heroes is better then SV there is another thread for that in the misc section (which you know of) I am just saying the CW/WB should up SV budget if they are really worth it.

 

[Brainiac 8]

It also told how Scyler got some of his powers so it did have to do with Scyler as well as Shureshes.

Also if that is the def of Filler then where does that leave SV since when they do have fillers they don't even expand on anything??? Look I am not here to go back and forward if Heroes is better then SV there is another thread for that in the misc section (which you know of) I am just saying the CW/WB should up SV budget if they are really worth it.

And every episode shows Clark being heroic or saving someone at some point....so Smallville continually furthers the story of him slowly becoming Superman.

Same argument can be applied to both.

 

[triplet]

I agree, some of the F/X in Heroes does not play well.

In the true sense by definition, all shows have filler. But the filler is there to expand on characters backstories or elaborate on their motivations...but that's not bad...too many people gripe and complain that there is that sort of stuff in the show, when it is necessary to the overall plot.

So in affect, stories can't thrive without filler.

I hope that made sense.

Yeah, it does...

I think what most people mean when they say filler is that the episode has zero impact on the show, and that's hardly ever true in Smallville especially lately.

Some episodes earlier in the series maybe could have been called that, but not anymore.

The episode in Heroes where Hiro goes back in time to try and save Charly had a lot of impact on him as a character but had very little impact on the series as a whole, aside from him losing his powers for a time...

It was filler, using the term as you defined it.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Yeah, it does...

I think what most people mean when they say filler is that the episode has zero impact on the show, and that's hardly ever true in Smallville especially lately.

Some episodes earlier in the series maybe could have been called that, but not anymore.

The episode in Heroes where Hiro goes back in time to try and save Charly had a lot of impact on him as a character but had very little impact on the series as a whole, aside from him losing his powers for a time...

It was filler, using the term as you defined it.

Excactly, that's what I was saying. Smallville does wonders with their filler, and we see more and more of Superman coming out of Clark every episode now. Every act of heroism he does brings him closer to that goal.

There is not an episode of Smallville anymore where there is not some sort of impact...especially this season has been amazingly filler free for the most part.

 

[Migu-EL]

Fillers are ok in my book.

 

[Superman1980]

Wanna compare?

Nathan's (2006-7) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=VgdH3zzRD5o

Kal-El's (2004): http://youtube.com/watch?v=AT7NutySc4Y

Which 1 do you think costs more to make? Obviously Kal-El's.

Neo's flying was some good flying at the time, it was revolutionary.

I can't believe that i still get the hair standing up on the back of my neck when i see that Clark flight sequence. The speech he gives to Martha is awesome!

As for comparing Smallville SFX's with Heroes....I love both shows (Smallville more because I'm a Superman fan more than anything else) but Smallville is far superior in every way compared with Heroes. The SFX sometimes look really c**p in Heroes and i can't remember ever being disappointed with the SFX in Smallville.

 

[Brainiac 8]

I can't believe that i still get the hair standing up on the back of my neck when i see that Clark flight sequence. The speech he gives to Martha is awesome!

As for comparing Smallville SFX's with Heroes....I love both shows (Smallville more because I'm a Superman fan more than anything else) but Smallville is far superior in every way compared with Heroes. The SFX sometimes look really c**p in Heroes and i can't remember ever being disappointed with the SFX in Smallville.

 

[AgentPat]

Sometimes I wonder if "filler" is just a lazy pejorative critics prefer to use to describe SV eps they don't like.

More on point... the budget of any ep (that's the topic of this thread, right?) is determined by what's required to tell the story. Period. Debating the format of the show (anthology vs. serial) is DUMB!!!! Even Gough admitted if they wanted to do an episode detailing the last days of Krypton (arguably "filler" by the definition some fans allege), it would probably be The. Most. Expensive. Episode SV ever produced. C'mon people. The "filler" argument in this case is just stupid.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Sometimes I wonder if "filler" is just a lazy pejorative critics prefer to use to describe SV eps they don't like.

More on point... the budget of any ep (that's the topic of this thread, right?) is determined by what's required to tell the story. Period. Debating the format of the show (anthology vs. serial) is DUMB!!!! Even Gough admitted if they wanted to do an episode detailing the last days of Krypton (arguably "filler" by the definition some fans allege), it would probably be The. Most. Expensive. Episode SV ever produced. C'mon people. The "filler" argument in this case is just stupid.

I want them to detail the last days of Krypton...how awsome would that episode be.

I was just trying to point out that people need to stop throwing the word "Filler" around, especially since most of them don't know what the meaning of it is. You are probably right, that they use it on episodes they don't like.

I was trying to show that there is nothing wrong with filler in the true sense...it's a necessary part of a show.