Can Iron Man be redeemed?

[LouFerignoDemon]

Outside of Defenders, whch was purposefully written like that, really the most memorable fights are the oens between team members, when has he done anything deeming of an ******* like Tony does.

Since his Defenders stuff (Which he's still fairly known for, and most of his characteration has come out of with his own series which treated him very similarly) is not that memorable in comparison to some stuff, it invalidates it?


Hell, in Ms. Marvel alone he lies straight to her face because he doubts she can handle the truth. That's easily up in Tony's level. Except Tony would tell Cap, "I'm going to kill the Supreme Intelligence anyway."

 

[Darthphere]

Since his Defenders stuff (Which he's still fairly known for, and most of his characteration has come out of with his own series which treated him very similarly) is not that memorable in comparison to some stuff, it invalidates it?


Hell, in Ms. Marvel alone he lies straight to her face because he doubts she can handle the truth. That's easily up in Tony's level. Except Tony would tell Cap, "I'm going to kill the Supreme Intelligence anyway."

Ms. Marvel cant even handle her cellphone on her way to battle the Brood, I think he had good reason.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Ms. Marvel cant even handle her cellphone on her way to battle the Brood, I think he had good reason.

An instance he didn't know about. Or the fact he never tells ANYBODY about Earth threatening situations he could definitely use help on, but utilizes the people who either won't talk about it, won't remember it, or would never admit to it. Or starts another Defenders team behind the original Defender's backs.

 

[Darthphere]

An instance he didn't know about. Or the fact he never tells ANYBODY about Earth threatening situations he could definitely use help on, but utilizes the people who either won't talk about it, won't remember it, or would never admit to it. Or starts another Defenders team behind the original Defender's backs.

True, but see, there you go again. Defenders was a title written like that on purpose, when was the last time Doc kept an earth shattering secret? He found out about Wnada he came to the Avengers.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

True, but see, there you go again. Defenders was a title written like that on purpose, when was the last time Doc kept an earth shattering secret? He found out about Wnada he came to the Avengers.

No, that's how he's ALWAYS written.


And you say that like other titles are spun out of some random sequence. So I don't understand what you say. It's like you can't say Tony's a real ass, because all of his cameo appearances don't portray him that way, and that his normal book was purposely written as such.

THAT'S how they WANTED Strange. And it wasn't limited to his Defenders book, it was that way in his normal book too.

And since we don't see him all the time, but he alludes in some of his cameo's to doing things we've never seen him do in comics, and the fact he's meant to control the borders of reality from beings far more powerful than anything on Earth that constantly want in, it's safe to assume he's got his hands full half the time.

 

[Darthphere]

But you havent given me any examples outside of Defenders.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

But you havent given me any examples outside of Defenders.

Since most of his work deals with the Defenders or his own Book.


Better yet, give me examples where he doesn't treat the rest of the super powered community like a bunch of idiots. Or actually allies himself with his beliefs in them, and not act like he's above all of it.

 

[Darthphere]

I hate to say this, Avengers: Disassembled. Either way, I mostly agree with you but theres more to Starnge than Defenders. Like BKV said recently, Strange for the longest time has always been the Deus Ex Machina in some big event.

 

[Vanguard07]

LoL I'm just gonna throw in the fact that Strange has never mistreated his teammates.
Think about it. The Defenders are known as a Non-Team.
They are his Non-teammates.

I'm sure he'd be fine with any actual team he was on.

 

[3dman27]

if i understand all this right
darhpere claims that from the beginning tony stark is an ass because he was trying to protect his company from industrial espionage [that sounds justifiable to me]and when tony expanded his focus to include the world at large still kept thinking in a [for lack of a better term] corperate manner?

 

[Darthphere]

if i understand all this right
darhpere claims that from the beginning tony stark is an ass because he was trying to protect his company from industrial espionage [that sounds justifiable to me]and when tony expanded his focus to include the world at large still kept thinking in a [for lack of a better term] corperate manner?

No, hes a *****ebag because he ****s around and manipulates his friends constantly.

 

[3dman27]

No, hes a *****ebag because he ****s around and manipulates his friends constantly.

oh you mean how he's been written the past couple of years

 

[The Cleric]

look, i always said that Tony SHOULD become a villian. i mean, theres a freakin shortage of high powered villians already, an it would make a great story to the dryed up charector. of course, not as ironman, maybe a different persona, where his business would go down the drain.

 

[Grim Goblin]

I don't know nearly enough about Strange to comment on his behalf, but how does his possible *****eness make a relevent defense for Tony?

He's a jerk because he did manipulate his "friends" in the past. Hell he didn't even bother letting Jim know he was still alive while Rhodes was filling in as Iron Man.And I don't buy the excuse Tony gave either. You can trust a guy with a sofisticated suit of combat armor but it's too risky to let him know you're not really dead

Even worse, Tony admitted that he was wrong for acting that way and yet he's still acting like a jerk today! :

 

[Cyclops]

look, i always said that Tony SHOULD become a villian. i mean, theres a freakin shortage of high powered villians already, an it would make a great story to the dryed up charector. of course, not as ironman, maybe a different persona, where his business would go down the drain.

Already been done, didn't work. Yawn.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

look, i always said that Tony SHOULD become a villian. i mean, theres a freakin shortage of high powered villians already, an it would make a great story to the dryed up charector. of course, not as ironman, maybe a different persona, where his business would go down the drain.

Dried up? Hardly. Tons of stuff to do with him.


However, "evil" Tony would be horrible. It's like turning Dr. Doom into a good guy all of the sudden. You couldn't do that without making a clone Doom, or extra dimensional Doom, or a young Doom. And the simple fact with Tony is that he tries to do the right thing (often through less than ethical means) and really doesn't do bad guy things, nor does he want to.

 

[Willowhugger]

My favorite Tony momment is when his first goal as Secretary of State is that he wants to end all death in Iraq on both sides.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I hate to say this, Avengers: Disassembled. Either way, I mostly agree with you but theres more to Starnge than Defenders. Like BKV said recently, Strange for the longest time has always been the Deus Ex Machina in some big event.

Aside from the Deus Ex Machina, since I don't think it really holds any relevance (though you're totally right with him being this key figure in huge events), he really doesn't pull too much (or any for the most part) characterization in his cameo appearances. But, like most hero's who do cameo appearances, they don't really get to be who they are. Tony, when he's cameo'ing and such, is generally a nice person who's totally truthful and upfront, and usually not very serious. Which is totally different from him in huge events or in his own book. Would I like to see a non ass Strange? Hell no. He's the Sorcerer Supreme. Arrogance and a holier than thou thought pattern would make sense to someone who was arrogant and holier than thou in his past life with fewer responsibilities and powers.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I don't know nearly enough about Strange to comment on his behalf, but how does his possible *****eness make a relevent defense for Tony?

He's a jerk because he did manipulate his "friends" in the past. Hell he didn't even bother letting Jim know he was still alive while Rhodes was filling in as Iron Man.And I don't buy the excuse Tony gave either. You can trust a guy with a sofisticated suit of combat armor but it's too risky to let him know you're not really dead

Even worse, Tony admitted that he was wrong for acting that way and yet he's still acting like a jerk today! :

One could say that he didn't let Rhodey know, because he wanted Rhodey to BE Iron Man in thought, where if he believed Tony to be alive, he wouldn't really commit to the Iron Man persona. Though I fully agree. Rhodey should've been trusted in this situation.

 

[Vanguard07]

I've always liked Rhodey much better than Stark. He seemed like a generally better person.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I've always liked Rhodey much better than Stark. He seemed like a generally better person.

Nah. Brainiacs are more my taste. If Tony weren't such a man-****e, I'd even be attracted to him. Strange and Reed on the other hand...

 

[Vanguard07]

Dr Strange is da man. I mean just look at the way he dresses. He's a pimp.

 

[deathshead2]

I hope in the end after all this cival war stuff is over we find out tony just started drinking again. I miss drunk Tony.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I hope in the end after all this cival war stuff is over we find out tony just started drinking again. I miss drunk Tony.

I don't. We need that like we need a wife beating Pym.

 

[3dman27]

I Had A Thought About Tony's Manipulation Of People Would That Include Manipulating The Ny Board Of Education Into Not Rehireing Science Teacher Peter Parker? That Way The Old Parker Luck Would Get A Push By Stark Ingenuity