The Dark Knight Rises Can/Should Batman 3 break the multi-villain curse?

[Figs]

While I like a number of those ideas Steyin I still can't agree on having more mobsters in the third film.

Looking at BB and TDK most of the mob heads are dead(assuming Falconi didn't survive the car crash).

The Chechen and Gamble both got killed by the Joker and looking at the mobsters who attended that meeting most of them minus Gamble, The Chechen and Maroni seemed like goomba types. You know right hand men to the higher ups. Those types most likely wouldn't have the smarts and pull to take over and build up again.

Just look at TDK, that movie was showing how Batman between BB and TDK had already been breaking up the mob and their plans/power to the point that in TDK Lau is the only one left for them to go to for their finances. You take the fact that Lau dies, Joker/Two Face kills the remaining top mob guys as well as Joker burns up the mob's life savings(Gordon says this on the rooftop meeting, so basically that was the bulk if not remainder of the mobs money) who or what is really left of the mob to keep going?

I just don't see how fans aren't yet bored of the mob in these movies. Personally I think their arc is done with for the most part. Nolan is great at handling multiple villians and I think if he returns he should have the villains be non mob types from Batman's rogues gallery. Yeah he could have fleshed out Scarecrow more and given him more scenes in either or both films but I still like what Nolan is doing and how he utilized him towards the story in BB.

That's where I agree with you on having some villians like Firefly in a small cameo type role like Zsasz had in BB.

 

[GregComicFan]

So if Nolan decided "Okay, the mob is done. I will not have ANY mob characters in my Batman 3, only freaks"... which freaks are good for cameo roles/small parts and which are more appropriate for major roles???

My picks:

MAJOR ROLES:
Catwoman - I believe Catwoman is 100% guaranteed to show up in B3.
Riddler - there's so many interpretations to go with, great to show Batman go up against someone who can challenge his intellect, its a meaty role.
Penguin - I can see Nolan use Penguin as the conduit between mob and freak... since Penguin is a mob boss but ALSO a freak. He's the transition in living form, so I see him as more as the most likely "mob boss" character.
-Scarecrow - I think Crane can be used like a "Calandar Man/Hannibal Lecter" type capacity... stuck in Arkham, sought by Batman for info....


MINOR ROLES:
-Mad Hatter - let's face it... Scarecrow's "fear toxin" is not EXACTLY realistic... so how about a child molester who has some kind of drug or something that creates fantastical illusions to persuade children into his grasps? Could serve as a Zsasz type capacity... just call him Jervis Tetch... Nolan doesn't ever have to say "Mad Hatter"... the fans know.
-Killer Croc - in my opinion probably the EASIEST freak to shove into B3 and give little development to and just have him be someone Batman takes down early (ala Scarecrow in TDK) or as a henchmen... all you need is a big muscle bound dude who has a weird-crazy skin disease that makes him look all scally like a croc. Look up weird skin diseases online or in documentaries and you will find some hideous to look at (and heartbreaking) photos... so Killer Croc is not a stretch at all. Not one bit.
-Scarface/Ventriloquist - I know S/V has a lot of fans on SHHype, but I think the character would be confusing to non-comic readers. The non-comic-reading audience members would be like "Who is this old dude holding a dummy that's dressed as a mafia doll???" But that's my opinion.


What about others? Black Mask? Victor Fries Cameo? etc?

Some people have mentioned wanting to see Tony Zucco. I doubt it. He's too tied to Dick Grayson and I seriously doubt Grayson will ever appear.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

So if Nolan decided "Okay, the mob is done. I will not have ANY mob characters in my Batman 3, only freaks"... which freaks are good for cameo roles/small parts and which are more appropriate for major roles???

My picks:

MAJOR ROLES:
Catwoman - I believe Catwoman is 100% guaranteed to show up in B3.
Riddler - there's so many interpretations to go with, great to show Batman go up against someone who can challenge his intellect, its a meaty role.
Penguin - I can see Nolan use Penguin as the conduit between mob and freak... since Penguin is a mob boss but ALSO a freak. He's the transition in living form, so I see him as more as the most likely "mob boss" character.
-Scarecrow - I think Crane can be used like a "Calandar Man/Hannibal Lecter" type capacity... stuck in Arkham, sought by Batman for info....


MINOR ROLES:
-Mad Hatter - let's face it... Scarecrow's "fear toxin" is not EXACTLY realistic... so how about a child molester who has some kind of drug or something that creates fantastical illusions to persuade children into his grasps? Could serve as a Zsasz type capacity... just call him Jervis Tetch... Nolan doesn't ever have to say "Mad Hatter"... the fans know.
-Killer Croc - in my opinion probably the EASIEST freak to shove into B3 and give little development to and just have him be someone Batman takes down early (ala Scarecrow in TDK) or as a henchmen... all you need is a big muscle bound dude who has a weird-crazy skin disease that makes him look all scally like a croc. Look up weird skin diseases online or in documentaries and you will find some hideous to look at (and heartbreaking) photos... so Killer Croc is not a stretch at all. Not one bit.
-Scarface/Ventriloquist - I know S/V has a lot of fans on SHHype, but I think the character would be confusing to non-comic readers. The non-comic-reading audience members would be like "Who is this old dude holding a dummy that's dressed as a mafia doll???" But that's my opinion.


What about others? Black Mask? Victor Fries Cameo? etc?

Some people have mentioned wanting to see Tony Zucco. I doubt it. He's too tied to Dick Grayson and I seriously doubt Grayson will ever appear.

Zsasz's name was spoken in Batman Begins (just to clarify, just in case you didn't know). I don't like Mad Hatter regardless, and all Scarecrow's "fear toxin" really was was an exaggerated form of a gaseous hallucinogen.

As far as Croc goes, I think he could be excellently done the way way Two-Face was done in The Dark Knight... More of a tragic villain who devolves throughout the movie than a deranged criminal.

As far as Ventriloquist and Scarface go... I could do without them. I really could stand to never see either them or the Mad Hatter, as I find them both to be pretty dumb villains, especially in this series. That said, if I heard Nolan was going with either one, I'd really be interested to see how he twisted them into more crime-thriller-esque suited villains.

 

[StorminNorman]

Didn't Begins and TDK break the multi-villain curse?

 

[TheBatman072]

Zsasz's name was spoken in Batman Begins (just to clarify, just in case you didn't know). I don't like Mad Hatter regardless, and all Scarecrow's "fear toxin" really was was an exaggerated form of a gaseous hallucinogen.

As far as Croc goes, I think he could be excellently done the way way Two-Face was done in The Dark Knight... More of a tragic villain who devolves throughout the movie than a deranged criminal.

As far as Ventriloquist and Scarface go... I could do without them. I really could stand to never see either them or the Mad Hatter, as I find them both to be pretty dumb villains, especially in this series. That said, if I heard Nolan was going with either one, I'd really be interested to see how he twisted them into more crime-thriller-esque suited villains.

Uh...no. Croc isn't a sympathetic villain. And doesn't work well as a sympathetic villain.

He was portrayed perfect in THE JOKER hardcover. THE perfect representation of Killer Croc as far as a realistic portrayal goes. And one that I prefer over the overly exaggerated giant walking alligator from the recent comics.

 

[TheBatman072]

Didn't Begins and TDK break the multi-villain curse?

Yep. Both Begins and TDK had multiple villains and handled them all perfectly.

 

[SheldonLevene]

The only thing wrong with this line of thinking is that it could potentially shift the focus of the film even further from Batman himself. (I think TDK already did this in a way, but to an acceptable degree). This is not something I want.

 

[Anjow1060]

Didn't Begins and TDK break the multi-villain curse?

Yes, and the proprietor of this thread even admits it as well....and while on a normal basis I would ridicule him for wasting our time....there really isn't much to talk about other than to dwell on the accomplishments of the past.

- Jow

 

[david icke]

Uh...no. Croc isn't a sympathetic villain. And doesn't work well as a sympathetic villain.

He was portrayed perfect in THE JOKER hardcover. THE perfect representation of Killer Croc as far as a realistic portrayal goes. And one that I prefer over the overly exaggerated giant walking alligator from the recent comics.

I disagree, my favourite depiction of Croc is still his 1st appearances in the comics. He was quite sympathetic, his background of children's homes and beatings from police(as a child) shaping him to be the ultra-pissed off scary villan who lurked in the shadows waiting to make his move to take over the mobs.
I haven't read that Joker book, but however he is depicted it doesn't mean he can't be portrayed as a sympathetic character.
I don't much like the over exaggrated big monster croc either, sure, he looked like a lizard man in his 1st appearances but was always referred to as a big strong guy with a skin disease who made his money wrestling alligators.

 

[Anjow1060]

The only thing wrong with this line of thinking is that it could potentially shift the focus of the film even further from Batman himself. (I think TDK already did this in a way, but to an acceptable degree). This is not something I want.

I agree. Although, I can't say I found it completely acceptable. I understood why there was an arc for Harvey Dent, but we didn't get to share the same emotional ride with Bruce Wayne the way we did in Begins. I really missed that to be honest. The focus was pulled from him because they were pushing for everything from the plot to get fit in that the emotional connection to Bruce gets lost in the plot.

While Begins was a character-driven movie, this movie was plot driven.

I hope B3 returns to a more personal spectrum.

- Jow

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Uh...no. Croc isn't a sympathetic villain. And doesn't work well as a sympathetic villain.

He was portrayed perfect in THE JOKER hardcover. THE perfect representation of Killer Croc as far as a realistic portrayal goes. And one that I prefer over the overly exaggerated giant walking alligator from the recent comics.

There's no reason he can't be. A year ago, people swore The Joker couldn't work without permawhite or more laughter. Just because a Croc doesn't fit a certain character type doesn't mean he can't be molded into one in a completely different universe and still keep the essence of the character.

Sympathetic villain doesn't just mean he's a crybaby who we all feel bad for, regardless of his actions. It can mean that it's a character we grew to care about throughout the movie, and then watched him fall- hard and tragically- through whatever means. In Croc's case, it could be the disease.

There is something called "creative license". Nolan's taken it with every character so far.

 

[Malone]

I think Nolan should follow the same format that he's been following: One main villain, and other villains/characters that contribute to the story.

 

[TheBatman072]

There's no reason he can't be. A year ago, people swore The Joker couldn't work without permawhite or more laughter. Just because a Croc doesn't fit a certain character type doesn't mean he can't be molded into one in a completely different universe and still keep the essence of the character.

Sympathetic villain doesn't just mean he's a crybaby who we all feel bad for, regardless of his actions. It can mean that it's a character we grew to care about throughout the movie, and then watched him fall- hard and tragically- through whatever means. In Croc's case, it could be the disease.

There is something called "creative license". Nolan's taken it with every character so far.

Yeah, Croc isn't even that TIER of villain. He's B list. C list at worst.

Man-Bat is a sympathetic villain, even Bane is a sympathetic villain to an extant.

But Croc just doesn't seem like a sympathetic villain at all to me. At least that's the way I prefer him.

 

[evilskillz]

The only thing wrong with this line of thinking is that it could potentially shift the focus of the film even further from Batman himself. (I think TDK already did this in a way, but to an acceptable degree). This is not something I want.

I agree. I still think the third film will have plenty of villains. I just don't think they will overshadow Batman as much in the next film. This next film has to bring Batman's journey full circle. We need to dive deeper into the mind of Batman, not the mind of the villains.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I don't think you can count every single character who's a "bad guy" as a villain in the movie. A superhero movie gets overcrowded when you have multiple villains with their own agendas fighting for screen time. The X-Men movies weren't like that. They all had many villains from the comics, but almost all of them were Magneto's henchmen. When you think about it, Batman & Robin had two villains and a glorified henchman (Bane) rather than three villains. In that case, the movie's problem wasn't overcrowding the plot, but misusing a character like Bane.

 

[devil dinosaur]

I think we should have

-The Penguin as an almost throw-away villain, a scene or two in the film with Batman busting him, all while being on the wrong side of the law himself, maybe.
-Catwoman as the love interest / antihero / minor villain,
-And then the Main villain, I guess the Riddler?

That is plenty of bad guys. No need for the mob or a bad-guy with lots of goons, as the cops will fill that role (presumably).

 

[Lightning54SC]

to the OP you knwo there was more then 2 villains?

Mob
Joker
Two Face
currupt cops