Can superheroes ever exist??

[JLBats]

A lot of people on here suggest Batman as being possible. I really think if someone went out and tried to be Batman, they'd hit the mark a lot closer to Travis Bickle.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Maybe if you have less than two testicles, you gain superhuman strengths.

I mean, you lose something so valuable, you have to get something good in return, right?

"Look kids! The the amazing Neutered-Man!!!!!!!"

 

[The Question]

A lot of people on here suggest Batman as being possible. I really think if someone went out and tried to be Batman, they'd hit the mark a lot closer to Travis Bickle.

I really think a vigilante using Batman's methods or a more variations of them is possible. It wouldn't be easy, but it might be possible.

 

[Fran]

"Look kids! The the amazing Neutered-Man!!!!!!!"

So, Lance is now the Neutered-Man?

 

[J. J. Jameson]

So, Lance is now the Neutered-Man?

What the heck?! I didn't think you were talking about Lance!

 

[Fran]

I was!!

 

[J. J. Jameson]

I was!!

Holy beep! Poor Lance!

 

[Fran]

That was a great quote from me, I should have mentioned I was talking about Lance somewhere in it!

 

[Bill]

As I said, frequent changing of patrol routs would solve that problem. They wouldn't know where you would be on any given night

You're right, it is becoming a pain in the ass, so I'll just keep it to this one and another and allow that you don't have a full understanding of the logistics of what you are trying to accomplish along with how far crime forensics has come and just how tenacious criminals are.

The problem is that your patrol route has nothing to do with setting up a drug deal in a spot where there is access for a sniper's line of fire and the points of entrance to and from the location are guarded. Not every drug deal is done is uber-dark alleys where fire escapes and easy exits abound. In fact, very few of them are done that way.

Why? If you're using over the counter chemicals and scrap found in a junkyard, how would it specifically tie any evidence left behind to you?

Because a forensic chemist can break down the remnants of your FB and gas grenade and analyze it's composition, they can then find out who has been purchasing these items in any significant quantity.

Your cubicle job is also a bit laughable. You'd need to spend your time pouring over police reports, your own network of informants, routes of the areas that you would be patrolling, and acquiring and building the equipment that you need, plus of host of other activities not tied with the actual night out. Also, you need to train to keep your body in shape and your senses acute, everyday. You would have to be independently wealthy to do it in the real world. In fact, it would be best if you found a way to live off the grid and stayed anonymous.

 

[The Question]

I anted to drop this, but alas.....

The problem is that your patrol route has nothing to do with setting up a drug deal in a spot where there is access for a sniper's line of fire and the points of entrance to and from the location are guarded. Not every drug deal is done is uber-dark alleys where fire escapes and easy exits abound. In fact, very few of them are done that way.

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that if you change tour patrol routs randomly, they'd have no way of knowing where you'd be at any given time to set up a trap like that. And yes, they could set up gaurded deals, but then they probably do that anyway to make sure the cops don't interfere, so I really don't see how it would change anything.

Because a forensic chemist can break down the remnants of your FB and gas grenade and analyze it's composition, they can then find out who has been purchasing these items in any significant quantity.

That's why it would be a good idea to by the chemicals seprate from seperate sources.

Your cubicle job is also a bit laughable. You'd need to spend your time pouring over police reports, your own network of informants, routes of the areas that you would be patrolling, and acquiring and building the equipment that you need, plus of host of other activities not tied with the actual night out. Also, you need to train to keep your body in shape and your senses acute, everyday.

I said a cubicle job would be a bad idea.

You would have to be independently wealthy to do it in the real world. In fact, it would be best if you found a way to live off the grid and stayed anonymous.

No, you wouldn't. Really, alot of the weapons could be made at home from easy to afford parts if you know your stuff.

 

[Boom]

I'm a superhero. I didn't type this message on a computer. I used my psychic powers.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Because a forensic chemist can break down the remnants of your FB and gas grenade and analyze it's composition, they can then find out who has been purchasing these items in any significant quantity.

Your cubicle job is also a bit laughable. You'd need to spend your time pouring over police reports, your own network of informants, routes of the areas that you would be patrolling, and acquiring and building the equipment that you need, plus of host of other activities not tied with the actual night out. Also, you need to train to keep your body in shape and your senses acute, everyday. You would have to be independently wealthy to do it in the real world. In fact, it would be best if you found a way to live off the grid and stayed anonymous.

I'd like to stress this point in spades. As a College Athlete/Ex-High School Athlete/and huge Fitness proponent I have some authority on this particular aspect. I started working out purely because I wanted to be as fit as Batman and DareDevil, no kidding. In fact I'd wanted to BE them (causing me to actually start reading on the exact inherent problems with their lifestyles we are reviewing here). However the fitness aspect is what carried over into adulthood. Fitness is an EXTREME committment and it's easy for a layperson to assume it's a small or easily attainable goal. It's not. The people who say "Fitness is free" probably are fat and lazy.

Between the Gym Membership, equipment, supplements and trainers I spend upwards of $200 a month on Fitness. That's not counting my diet. I HAVE to, not want to, HAVE to eat 6 meals (2 to 3 hours spaced) a day in order to keep up with my activity level. My metobolism burns through food like it's water. Now, not every athlete will need as much, but I cannot see anyone reasonably spending less than half of what I do and achieving a similar level of athleticism.

Then there is a huge issue with trade-offs. People who wish to be big and bulky for example probably won't have huge cardiovascular strength. People who can endur massive amounts of exercise over long periods of time probably won't be huge. People who are agile probably will trade off with muscle size and height (since smaller and more compact bodies have a better center of gravity).

Without some sort of enhancements or "help" your body will have trouble keeping up with the level of activity necessary to not just patrol and fight criminals but also maintain a physique that is able to do so.

Only someone who is a "genetic freak" could workout in the morning and then proceed to scour the night getting in dramatic hand to hand and very physical combat scenarios.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

A lot of people on here suggest Batman as being possible. I really think if someone went out and tried to be Batman, they'd hit the mark a lot closer to Travis Bickle.

Well I think most people here have argued that the Punisher is probably the only "repeatable" (and I mean the Garth Ennis version) "hero" in comics.

 

[The Question]

I'd like to stress this point in spades. As a College Athlete/Ex-High School Athlete/and huge Fitness proponent I have some authority on this particular aspect. I started working out purely because I wanted to be as fit as Batman and DareDevil, no kidding. In fact I'd wanted to BE them (causing me to actually start reading on the exact inherent problems with their lifestyles we are reviewing here). However the fitness aspect is what carried over into adulthood. Fitness is an EXTREME committment and it's easy for a layperson to assume it's a small or easily attainable goal. It's not. The people who say "Fitness is free" probably are fat and lazy.

Between the Gym Membership, equipment, supplements and trainers I spend upwards of $200 a month on Fitness. That's not counting my diet. I HAVE to, not want to, HAVE to eat 6 meals (2 to 3 hours spaced) a day in order to keep up with my activity level. My metobolism burns through food like it's water. Now, not every athlete will need as much, but I cannot see anyone reasonably spending less than half of what I do and achieving a similar level of athleticism.

Then there is a huge issue with trade-offs. People who wish to be big and bulky for example probably won't have huge cardiovascular strength. People who can endur massive amounts of exercise over long periods of time probably won't be huge. People who are agile probably will trade off with muscle size and height (since smaller and more compact bodies have a better center of gravity).

Without some sort of enhancements or "help" your body will have trouble keeping up with the level of activity necessary to not just patrol and fight criminals but also maintain a physique that is able to do so.

Only someone who is a "genetic freak" could workout in the morning and then proceed to scour the night getting in dramatic hand to hand and very physical combat scenarios.

Okay. I really don't see why it's automatically "dramatic hand to hand and very physical combat scnearios." I was more imagining "getting the drop one someoen and hitting them over the head with a rather large stick."

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that if you change tour patrol routs randomly, they'd have no way of knowing where you'd be at any given time to set up a trap like that. And yes, they could set up gaurded deals, but then they probably do that anyway to make sure the cops don't interfere, so I really don't see how it would change anything.

Well there are two responses to this.

One, unless you're planning on a vagabond type existence (something like that hitman from the homeless shelter) you will be operating outside of a single city. When police set up a sting generally they lead the criminal to them, not the other way around. In other words they'd set up a crime or lead you to a location where you would be caught. Not simply guard the areas where you have been seen (which would be done as well). Plus they have some evidence and intel on you. Witnesses (since you don't kill, victims would serve as testimony) would serve to create an idea of who or what you are. Police would attempt to figure out your mode of transportation, which is pretty easy to discern based on your appearances.

Since your operating at or between 10 and 3 am it's a safe bet not many cars or persons are out in the area. So any report of anything strange (such as a person parking an unmarked automobile in an alley) would be taken into account. Furthermore streetlights in urban areas typically have cameras on them.

Also chances are you'd come in direct contact with operations or criminals being monitored by police and local authorities. They would be hugely detrimental to your secrecy.

Number two, it's impossible to be totally random. Human's a predictable [to a degree]. Sociology, Political Science and Criminology are all highly advanced fields of study which focus on predicting complex human behavior. They do it fairly well. Don't think or be so foolish that there is not a dozen files 3 inches thick on past vigilante's and there MOs.

Right now from the little information I have on our faux Vigilante, I can assume and deduce many things. Number one, he would be operating in crime ridden areas and would have no interest or no work in areas with low crime rates.

Since you work off rooftops we can assume you need to find crime that is out in the open. That also narrows down our search.

Also since the police have files and informants they would have a reasonably good idea of what crimes were going down and where. And they would know what you knew. So unless you are going to just beat up muggers which would be nearly impossible to find, your going to bump into crimes which others have foreknowledge of.

Furthermore criminals, and your informants would have no bones about selling you out to the police since I would assume there is not much in the way of leinency you can offer them.

More to the point, the police are a network, and a lot of those social scientists I mentioned earlier think the police are in fact a "miserably failure" in detering crime (prison and incarceration rates suggest as much). So if a network of officers and intelligence agencies cannot do much in the way of preventing crime I fail to see how a one man can. "One man CAN make a difference" however it is usually only with money and power over many other men that this can be accomplished. Politics and social service are many ways one man can do things. Dressing up like a feral creature is not. The amount you would get accomplished is so miniscule and it would take so much overwhelming work that it would be wasted effort that could have been better applied elsewhere. Drive and will is great, only if intelligently applied though. If you go through the proper channels you can accomplish alot, however if you take a "you against the world" approach you will accomplish nothing.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Okay. I really don't see why it's automatically "dramatic hand to hand and very physical combat scnearios." I was more imagining "getting the drop one someoen and hitting them over the head with a rather large stick."

Maybe for a lone guy who broke into your house that's fine. But the likelyhood you will "get the drop on someone" is rather slim. Especially if that someone is in fact a group of somebodies. Flashbangs and gas bombs are great, but no one is going to get in a nice little group for you. They'll spread out, and unless you have a gun handly, you're f***ed. Because those gadgets are only going to serve as a hint at your location, and thats assuming they just don't start firing in every possible direction.

Also crime happens fast, and the chance that you'll even have the chance and time available to sneak up on them and take them out before they themselves dissappear is very low.

 

[Prodigy]

I dunno if this has been mentioned, but isn't Lance Armstrong sorta a "superhuman"? For cryin out loud! The guy's heart is 3 times that of a normal person!

I get a kick out of the idea that anyone really good at something is superhuman. lance armstrong is an incredible athlete... wouldn't that mean he is HUMAN, and not superhuman. obviously this is attainable (to some degree, he has particular genetics on his side)... but his heart is bigger cause it gets worked a lot doing all that biking

 

[Jerry]

If anyone's keeping the track the answer to this thread's question is and always will be "no".

 

[Spade]

If anyone's keeping the track the answer to this thread's question is and always will be "no".

And why's that? We know it may be possible to endow people with traits that we are not born with through enhancement; heck, it's happening in the world we live in today. The real question is if someone is of the moral fiber and endurance to be a 'superhero' as society defines one to be.

 

[Jerry]

No because it would have happened already. And if some genius does get the bright idea to seriously try and become a Batman/Punisher type hero, they won't last long. Because contrary to comics, police don't take lightly to people taking the law into their own hands, corrupt department or not. And if they can't stop him, which they would but just for arguments sake, the FBI will. Get your head out of the comic book world's ass for two seconds and think about it. You think that authorities would cooperate with someone like that even if they are trying to help? You have to understand, even if people would get desirable traits that would help them become these heroes, bullets are real. In the real world, one guy can't take out a whole gang of 5 or 6. Most likely the cops wouldn't have to track this hero down, they will probably find him dead in the gutter. And I honestly think there have been people who try this comic book hero bull**** thing and wind up getting themselves killed. Its sad.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

No because it would have happened already. And if some genius does get the bright idea to seriously try and become a Batman/Punisher type hero, they won't last long. Because contrary to comics, police don't take lightly to people taking the law into their own hands, corrupt department or not. And if they can't stop him, which they would but just for arguments sake, the FBI will. Get your head out of the comic book world's ass for two seconds and think about it. You think that authorities would cooperate with someone like that even if they are trying to help? You have to understand, even if people would get desirable traits that would help them become these heroes, bullets are real. In the real world, one guy can't take out a whole gang of 5 or 6. Most likely the cops wouldn't have to track this hero down, they will probably find him dead in the gutter. And I honestly think there have been people who try this comic book hero bull**** thing and wind up getting themselves killed. Its sad.

Ummm....I'm not sure if you were responding to ChibiKiriyama, but he wasn't talking about being a Punisher or a Batman. He was talking about genetic enhancements or technological enhancements creating "Superheroes". Not humans taking the law into their own hands.

 

[Jerry]

It was just a general respones to all this. Genetic enchancements won't make a difference.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

It was just a general respones to all this. Genetic enchancements won't make a difference.

Actually that would. Not to say you could. But theoretically making a human super strong, durable or fast would make an extreme difference. Technology is probably the most lucritive field though. If someone independently created an Iron Man suit for example (which could be possible) they could very well fight crime. They'd probably be caught, or at the very least have to become Government sanctioned and sell out said technology. But something like the Ultimates, a stock piled military team of enhanced super soldiers (which are heroes in comics) are very possible and most likely will be realized.

The Government and other Governments have been interesting in creating the perfect soldier or super soldiers for years. Hitler's early attempt is pretty much where the characters of Superman and Captain America come from. Art immitating life. So Government produced or engineered super humans will most likely be reality. Batman style vigilantes most likely never, at least not successfully.

However it's not all or none like you make it.

Over time [certain aspects of] fiction becomes reality. It may not be exactly the same thing but cellphones, submarines, streetlamps and several other modern inventions all came about in fiction before reality created them.

 

[Jerry]

OK lets not get off track here. Comic book heroes like Batman are WAY different from government sanctioned groups. Heroes like Batman will never be realized in the real world. Government sanctioned groups are an entirely different story, and who knows if they even maybe exist now. My agrument was against people using genetic advancements to become a Batmae esque crime fighter.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

OK lets not get off track here. Comic book heroes like Batman are WAY different from government sanctioned groups. Heroes like Batman will never be realized in the real world. Government sanctioned groups are an entirely different story, and who knows if they even maybe exist now. My agrument was against people using genetic advancements to become a Batmae esque crime fighter.

Well as I say, theoretically if you had super powers like Superman or Flash or even Nightcrawler and Banshee you could easily fight crime because your body becomes are dangerous weapon in and of itself. You would possess a trait no one else could or would possess. Therefore you in that scenario could fight crime. However THIS argument (for the last few pages) was against a Batman. A normal human using normal abilities to become a Superhero. Your off trying to show how a hypothetical could not hypothetically happen, which makes no sense. So really your off track. If you have something to say about why a normal human vigilante would not work, that is the topic.