Civil War Cap 3 or Avengers 2.5?

[Ghostcrow13]

This isn't an ensemble film like LOTR or The Avengers. This a film with a lead and large supporting and probably cameo filled cast. There's no need to flesh out all those characters by giving them all individual arcs or highlight them in big solo scenes.

I thought Maria Hill, Sitwell, Zola, Senator Stern, Crossbones and even the World Council all had small roles were well used in TWS. They each had discernible personalities, they fulfilled their purpose and they propelled the plot.

Fury, Sam, TWS has larger supporting roles and I thought were all very well served. Natasha was almost a co-lead and was served excessively well. Pierce made for a very effective villain. And still there was no doubt that Steve Rogers was the lead and it was his story.

Just because some of the supporting cast are bigger names doesn't mean they're all going to have the same amount of screen or story time or even be used as more than a cameo or background character in big group scenes. That's not any different from the comics and how characters are used. The only thing I surprised at is that Marvel was able to pull it off with all these different contracts.

Well said, the problem here is everyone wants their favorite characters to have substantial role, Hawkeye could be in it 10 minutes but still be done justice.

There will be people complaining Bucky or Falcon or Sharon or Black Panther or even Cap himself didn't get enough screen time because that happens in every film.

This is a Steve Rogers film, everyone else will get their story around him and whatever role and screen time they get will most likely be for the betterment of the story.

 

[Shikamaru]

Not really. That film included only one other Avenger outside of Cap. I don't think it's quite the same comparison

It also heavily featured SHIELD more than any other film since TA.

 

[Darkraid]

I think Civil War is basically an Avengers film disguised as a Cap film. However, I would like to think that the story will be Steve centric.

But you can't have Civil War with just Cap and Stark. The amount of characters in this movie is understandable. The only thing I'm not sure are how the Hydra guys and WS fit into all this.

 

[Havok83]

It also heavily featured SHIELD more than any other film since TA.

Than you can try to make the case that it's. SHIELD film. Not so much Avengers

 

[Suzanne78]

This isn't an ensemble film like LOTR or The Avengers. This a film with a lead and large supporting and probably cameo filled cast. There's no need to flesh out all those characters by giving them all individual arcs or highlight them in big solo scenes.

I thought Maria Hill, Sitwell, Zola, Senator Stern, Crossbones and even the World Council all had small roles were well used in TWS. They each had discernible personalities, they fulfilled their purpose and they propelled the plot.

Fury, Sam, TWS has larger supporting roles and I thought were all very well served. Natasha was almost a co-lead and was served excessively well. Pierce made for a very effective villain. And still there was no doubt that Steve Rogers was the lead and it was his story.

Just because some of the supporting cast are bigger names doesn't mean they're all going to have the same amount of screen or story time or even be used as more than a cameo or background character in big group scenes. That's not any different from the comics and how characters are used. The only thing I surprised at is that Marvel was able to pull it off with all these different contracts.

Team TalismanRing.

The day they make the official cast announcements for this movie (probably the same day they start filming), I'm going to have to buy a case of my preferred hard liquor. Gonna need it to get through the next year.

 

[Infinight888]

I think what makes this a Captain America movie is that it's the next phase in his story arc. In the first Captian America and The Avengers, he's a man that is willing to die for his country. He still is in Winter Soldier, but he learns that the country he loved isn't the same as that idealistic vision he had as a youth. It's been corrupted. Perhaps it became that way since his death, but maybe it was always like that and he just never noticed.

Whatever the case, WS was a loss of innocence. But, maybe, he can tell himself that that was just SHIELD. But now there's the registration act, and Captain America must choose between the Americas he must defend. Does he fight for the government again, or does he fight for the values that he still believes America stands for. It's this decision that will complete his evolution into what he must become. Not just a soldier that blindly follows orders. But a hero.

 

[Shikamaru]

Than you can try to make the case that it's. SHIELD film. Not so much Avengers

SHIELD is heavily related to the Avengers and the Marvel Universe as a whole. Not to mention that the line between "Avengers" and "Marvel superheroes" has become more blurred in the past two decades or so.

The overall point being that Cap's modern day mythos centers heavily around the Avengers/Marvel universe as a whole in the first place.

 

[Havok83]

SHIELD is heavily related to the Avengers and the Marvel Universe as a whole. Not to mention that the line between "Avengers" and "Marvel superheroes" has become more blurred in the past two decades or so.

The overall point being that Cap's modern day mythos centers heavily around the Avengers/Marvel universe as a whole in the first place.

And? They are still very distinct. By your logic, Agents of SHIELD would be an Avengers tv show. Bringing up the MU and whats happened in hte books over the last 2 decades is irrelevant here as that is being discussed is the MCU and Cap's films in particular

 

[Shikamaru]

And? They are still very distinct. By your logic, Agents of SHIELD would be an Avengers tv show. Bringing up the MU and whats happened in hte books over the last 2 decades is irrelevant here as that is being discussed is the MCU and Cap's films in particular

Agents of SHIELD is very much an Avengers spinoff show, both in marketing and narrative.

I never said they weren't distinct, but they are heavily correlated in almost all Marvel continuities. In many cases, they're both the foundation for the Marvel universe at large. And Cap is right in center.

 

[Broseph44]

The film is called CAPTAIN AMERICA Civil War. So therefore it is Cap 3. Wow, that wasn't tough to figure out at all.

 

[Havok83]

Agents of SHIELD is very much an Avengers spinoff show, both in marketing and narrative.

I never said they weren't distinct, but they are heavily correlated in almost all Marvel continuities. In many cases, they're both the foundation for the Marvel universe at large. And Cap is right in center.

Its a tie in show. Its not a show about the Avengers. At any rate, back to the main point, Cap has had 2 solo films about him. Hopefully the third falls in line

 

[Shikamaru]

Its a tie in show. Its not a show about the Avengers. At any rate, back to the main point, Cap has had 2 solo films about him. Hopefully the third falls in line

Never said it was. What's your point?

It does revolve around Captain America and the Avengers, particularly Cap more than anyone else (so far, given the HYDRA connections). That's my point.

 

[Havok83]

Never said it was. What's your point?

It does revolve around Captain America and the Avengers, particularly Cap more than anyone else (so far, given the HYDRA connections). That's my point.

I dont even know what we are arguing about at this point bc you are going on about stuff which is now far removed from the originally point I made in the post you quoted me on. At this point, just agree to disagree with me and move on. There is nothing more to say on the matter

 

[Shikamaru]

I dont even know what we are arguing about at this point bc you are going on about stuff which is now far removed from the originally point I made in the post you quoted me on. At this point, just agree to disagree with me and move on. There is nothing more to say on the matter

My point from the beginning was that Cap's mythos bleeds into all other mythos of the Marvel universe and vice versa. Which is also the very last thing I said (about Agents of SHIELD revolving heavily around Cap-related events). Where have I deviated from my original point?

 

[Havok83]

My point from the beginning was that Cap's mythos bleeds into all other mythos of the Marvel universe and vice versa. Which is also the very last thing I said (about Agents of SHIELD revolving heavily around Cap-related events). Where have I deviated from my original point?

Of course it does. Thats a moot point as that isnt anything I disputed when I commented on his second film. You have gone off on a tangent which has deviated from what I had stated

 

[Shikamaru]

Of course it does. Thats a moot point as that isnt anything I disputed when I commented on his second film. You have gone off on a tangent which has deviated from what I had stated

You stated my comparison didn't hold up because it only featured a single other Avenger from the movies, as if that was the only factor in determining what would make the film "Avengers 1.5".

 

[Havok83]

Sigh....again nothing more to say. Have a great night

 

[ernesth100]

You know I've been thinking. Would it be a bad thing if this was more like Avengers 2.5?

 

[BullMcGiveny]

You know I've been thinking. Would it be a bad thing if this was more like Avengers 2.5?

In a general cinematic sense, perhaps not.

But for someone who would want a Captain America story, then yes, it would be bad.

If nothing else, it would reflect how poorly Cap is regarded by Marvel.

 

[InternetPeople]

There will be more team-up movies outside of the Avengers, that's a given. If Marvel continues to expand it's roster and doesn't retire some characters, then new properties will be fighting for space with the old and will do a disservice to them both.

 

[Xhexania]

you know, if we consider after the first Avenger film, during all phase 2 movies, people had the same comment on them: Where were the other avengers during the events of IM3, TDW, or TWS? so the natural progression is that, unless the movie is about an origin story for a character, if it is one of the Avengers, then other Avengers will be in it, because MCU is an interconnected universe so much that it is what people expect now.

If we consider how crowded CW should be to stay true to the books, then what CA3 presents very little compared to it, they are what Marvel has presented so far and some of them what they will present (Black Panther); but jut because they are there it doesn´t mean they will take from Cap and his story, as a great example of that, is how they played Falcon and Nick Fury in TWS, if we measure the amount of time they were on the screen, it wasn´t that much, but they interconnected with the story in the right places and they served the purpose they were supposed to (we could say the same about Pierce, Rumlov, Sharon, Maria Hill, Zola, Peggy, even the Winter Soldier himself)

I also consider that CW as a story is soooooo big, there is no way to adapt that all in one movie, so that they will do the adaptation from Cap´s POV; and just like in TWS, Steve Rogers will carry the film and it will be about his POV, while the superheroes face the consequences of their acts and whether they should register or work for the government or not, etc.

So, this is Cap3, but I respect other´s opinions, though I also see many negative ones and remember of all the negative ones I saw before, with the announcement of films, whether it is casting, trailer, looks, plot spoilers, etc. Like how bad was TWS going to be when people were like "the directors of community will do this?" or I won´t go into all the things said about GotG, before it became everyone´s favorite after it´s release.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

In a general cinematic sense, perhaps not.

But for someone who would want a Captain America story, then yes, it would be bad.

If nothing else, it would reflect how poorly Cap is regarded by Marvel.

Well if Cap is poorly regarded what about Thor, and Black Panther and Captain Marvel all of whom got shoved out the way for a Sony Spider-man film, not to mention Thor got put right into the grasp of Justice League.

And you think Cap is poorly regarded, when he will lead a huge event, his phase 2 film was the most important, and his phase 3 film will be the most important.

 

[ernesth100]

Yeah, Cap is too be respected. There's a reason BvS moved their date. XD

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well if Cap is poorly regarded what about Thor, and Black Panther and Captain Marvel all of whom got shoved out the way for a Sony Spider-man film, not to mention Thor got put right into the grasp of Justice League.

Well, yes. Those characters are comparatively poorly valued by Marvel as well. I'm sure that, had Spider-Man not been acquired so recently, "Cap 3" might have been delayed as well.

And you think Cap is poorly regarded, when he will lead a huge event, his phase 2 film was the most important, and his phase 3 film will be the most important.

Another way to look at it is that Marvel thinks that his movies have to be huge events, with as many Avengers as they can fit appearing, to be worth making. Whereas everyone else has more freedom.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Well, yes. Those characters are comparatively poorly valued by Marvel as well. I'm sure that, had Spider-Man not been acquired so recently, "Cap 3" might have been delayed as well.

Another way to look at it is that Marvel thinks that his movies have to be huge events, with as many Avengers as they can fit appearing, to be worth making. Whereas everyone else has more freedom.

Or another way to look at it is they want Cap to lead their important films because they want him to be important, you don't have to watch TDW, GotG or IM3 between Avengers and AoU, but you will need to have seen TWS to understand the current situation.