The Dark Knight Capes and Cowls - New Batsuit Discussion Thread

[TheDarkKnight08]

Ya know what? In my lifetime I've given Warner Brothers and DC Comics thousands of dollars for Batman-related merchandise. I think that I and the hundreds of thousands of other "fanboys" who more or less footed some of the bill on these movies can be allowed to nitpick on a message board. We earned it.

Wow... seems like someone can't take a joke.

Oh, and if you bothered reading the rest of the post, BRUCE, not I, was talking about the "spandex" suit.

 

[Mandalore464]

Everytime I watched TDK I had the feeling the Begins suit was smaller than it was in Begins itself.

The cowl especially looked really small, as if pressed too tightly against Bale's head.

I'm pretty sure they scaled the suit down for some reason. They had to scale the body down for sure, because Bale was not as big as he was in Begins, but they also changed the size of the cowl for some reason...

I don't see any other explanation for the fact that I absolutely love he Begins suit from BB while I thought it looked horrible in TDK...

 

[user123456789]

Did you see it do anything else?



What sums up the two suits of BB and TDK for me, is that the BB-suit looked great in most publicity-shots, but kinda ridiculous in some scenes of the movie (that close-up in the bank-vault in TDK had people in the audience laughing) while the TDK-suit on the other hand looks dumb in some publicity-shots while really good in most scenes in the movie.

u could tell the suit just looked so outdated in the bank shot and even on the rooftop

 

[SheldonLevene]

The flatness of the bridge of his nose and the cut of the eye holes in that head on shot in the bank made Bale look a bit like Franklin the turtle.

 

[Saint]

Everytime I watched TDK I had the feeling the Begins suit was smaller than it was in Begins itself.

The cowl especially looked really small, as if pressed too tightly against Bale's head.

I'm pretty sure they scaled the suit down for some reason. They had to scale the body down for sure, because Bale was not as big as he was in Begins, but they also changed the size of the cowl for some reason...

I don't see any other explanation for the fact that I absolutely love he Begins suit from BB while I thought it looked horrible in TDK...

I find it unlikely that they even bothered to produce any new Begins suits; they probably used the ones they made for Begins.

 

[SheldonLevene]

I find it unlikely that they even bothered to produce any new Begins suits; they probably used the ones they made for Begins.

Really? It seemed to fit him pretty well. Considering the difference in size from BB to TDK that would lead me to believe they were new.

 

[Saint]

The difference in his size was negligible.

 

[SheldonLevene]

The difference in his size was negligible.

What? I can't understand why you would say this.

 

[Eggyman]

With the Begins suit, in the scene with Gordon in the bank vault, I thought the cowl looked strange - the nose was flattened/smaller. I can't remember it ever looking like this in Begins, but it could just be a fresh angle we're seeing it from.

 

[Seditionary]

I loved the batman begins suit and how it looked at the beginning scene with scarecrow. He looked tough and more than batman than ever...got the job friggin done.

I wasn't a fan of the we need lau back rooftop scene with the big three...his posture didnt look very batman.

I adore the new suit as it appears in the movie. The press shots are in a white room in the light. Hes supposed to be in the dark. Spandex might work in the dark too who knows...it definetly doesn't work in the light.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Where did Saint go I want to see why he would say the difference in Bale's size was "negligible"

 

[Saint]

What? I can't understand why you would say this.

Because that is my observation. His volume in Begins is not significantly different from his volume in TDK, with the exception of the scenes shot early in production before he had trimmed down (the League scenes). He may have been more tone in Begins (hard to tell, based on little we see of him in TDK), but in terms of size he's mostly the same.

I mean, it's not like his body shrank. Even if he had lost more significant muscle mass than he did, it would be within the range that the elasticity of the suit would compensate for, I imagine. Either way, I think they'd rather have the suit fit a little loose than sculpt an entirely new suit to compensate for Bale's negligible size difference.

 

[Crook]

I actually thought the BB suit looked ridiculously bulky in TDK, compared to BB. I remember thinking "damn, was it really that big in the first film?"

 

[Axtech]

With the Begins suit, in the scene with Gordon in the bank vault, I thought the cowl looked strange - the nose was flattened/smaller. I can't remember it ever looking like this in Begins, but it could just be a fresh angle we're seeing it from.

Yeah, there were a couple of times when the BB suit looked really awkward in TDK, the vault scene being a prime example.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Because that is my observation. His volume in Begins is not significantly different from his volume in TDK, with the exception of the scenes shot early in production before he had trimmed down (the League scenes). He may have been more tone in Begins (hard to tell, based on little we see of him in TDK), but in terms of size he's mostly the same.

I mean, it's not like his body shrank. Even if he had lost more significant muscle mass than he did, it would be within the range that the elasticity of the suit would compensate for, I imagine. Either way, I think they'd rather have the suit fit a little loose than sculpt an entirely new suit to compensate for Bale's negligible size difference.

I disagree on both points. He is most assuredly thinner in TDK. Probably about 15 pounds I would say. His chest and back are both far broader in BB even in the scene after his first night out when he does the pushups in the bedroom. Not to mention his arms are about 1.5 times the size.When you decrease in weight and muscle you also lose size, it is kinda like he shrank.

 

[Saint]

I disagree on both points. He is most assuredly thinner in TDK. Probably about 15 pounds I would say. His chest and back are both far broader in BB even in the scene after his first night out when he does the pushups in the bedroom. Not to mention his arms are about 1.5 times the size.When you decrease in weight and muscle you also lose size, it is kinda like he shrank.

Here are comparable shots (relaxed muscles, similar stance):

As I said: the difference is negligible.

 

[Mandalore464]

Because that is my observation. His volume in Begins is not significantly different from his volume in TDK, with the exception of the scenes shot early in production before he had trimmed down (the League scenes). He may have been more tone in Begins (hard to tell, based on little we see of him in TDK), but in terms of size he's mostly the same.

I mean, it's not like his body shrank. Even if he had lost more significant muscle mass than he did, it would be within the range that the elasticity of the suit would compensate for, I imagine. Either way, I think they'd rather have the suit fit a little loose than sculpt an entirely new suit to compensate for Bale's negligible size difference.

First of all, I also think that the difference between Bale's body in the "push-ups scene" from BB and his body in TDK is not that big.

Yet it is true that there is a difference, and that the Begins suit would have been a bit loose if they had used it, especially when you consider that the Begins suit was probably used during the shooting before Bale had trimmed down and was thus adapted to his ninja training frame or maybe just a little smaller.

But there is a significant change in his face though. In Begins, he has a full face, with full cheeks, while in TDK he has his usual "Bale face", with hollow cheeks and yet the cowl from the Begins suit really looks extremely tight in the TDK scenes.

I am still pretty sure that the Begins suit in TDK is scaled down, and this is more noticeable in the bank scene with Gordon.

I think they actually bothered creating other Begins suits for TDK. After all, when the Tumbler and Bat-Pod were displayed in Toronto, I remember the guy from Warner Bros said that the Tumbler was actually from Begins and the one from TDK was a bit different, suggesting they even built more Tumblers instead of using the ones from BB. If they could afford the cost and efforts of building other tumblers, they could probably afford those required to build a new suit as well.

 

[Saint]

First of all, I also think that the difference between Bale's body in the "push-ups scene" from BB and his body in TDK is not that big.

Yet it is true that there is a difference, and that the Begins suit would have been a bit loose if they had used it,

I'm not convinced. The suit has elasticity, like a wetsuit.

But there is a significant change in his face though. In Begins, he has a full face, with full cheeks, while in TDK he has his usual "Bale face", with hollow cheeks and yet the cowl from the Begins suit really looks extremely tight in the TDK scenes.

Doesn't look tight to me. I find it really unlikely that they felt the need to sculpt a new one. There are no shape changes at all, and Bale loosing some girth in his cheeks doesn't seem like something that would necessitate a new cowl, unless we were talking about something he would wear for the entire film. They may have produced new cowls from the old molds (for wear and tear reasons), but sculpting a new cowl because of a little weight loss seems like a long shot. In any case, if they did resculpt the cowl, they could do that without resculpting the rest of the suit (which is even less likely).

And, to be honest, I think people are imagining this "skinnier" look the Begins suit supposed has in TDK. If you look at comparable shots, he looks the same. I think the reason people imagine the begins suit is bulkier is because, most of the time, he was crouching in that film, which caused the suit to fold and puff up--especially in the chest and shoulders. In TDK, he's always standing upright.

I think they actually bothered creating other Begins suits for TDK. After all, when the Tumbler and Bat-Pod were displayed in Toronto, I remember the guy from Warner Bros said that the Tumbler was actually from Begins and the one from TDK was a bit different, suggesting they even built more Tumblers instead of using the ones from BB. If they could afford the cost and efforts of building other tumblers, they could probably afford those required to build a new suit as well.

I think you may have misheard about the Tumbler (or that guy misspoke). The Tumblers cost a fortune to make, and we almost certainly would have heard if they built more. They may have modified existing Tumblers, but I sincerely doubt they built any new cars.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Here are comparable shots (relaxed muscles, similar stance):

As I said: the difference is negligible.

I will conceed that these two look very similar, but Bale himself has said that he did not put on as much of the muscle for TDK as he did for BB. A better comparison imo would be him sitting on the bed in BB (the shot of his back), and the from behind shot of him taking of the shirt in TDK. He is broader and thicker in BB.

 

[Saint]

I will conceed that these two look very similar, but Bale himself has said that he did not put on as much of the muscle for TDK as he did for BB.

I said the difference was negligible, not that there was no difference.

 

[Mandalore464]

I'm not convinced. The suit has elasticity, like a wetsuit.

Well, if an elastic suit is built for a 210 lbs man (Assuming Bale had already dropped 10 pounds of extra-weight for his first day of shooting as Batman, it may have been more, or less), it won't shrink to fit a 190 lbs man.

Elasticity works if you get bigger, if you get smaller, it'll appear loose.

Doesn't look tight to me [...] In any case, if they did resculpt the cowl, they could do that without resculpting the rest of the suit (which is even less likely).

Actually, the only real change I noticed (or think I noticed) in the Begins suit is the cowl. I didn't notice any change in the size of the suit, I just assumed that if the cowl was indeed smaller, it was because they had scaled down the whole costume to fit Bale's body.

And, to be honest, I think people are imagining this "skinnier" look the Begins suit supposed has in TDK. If you look at comparable shots, he looks the same. I think the reason people imagine the begins suit is bulkier is because, most of the time, he was crouching in that film, which caused the suit to fold and puff up--especially in the chest and shoulders. In TDK, he's always standing upright.

That is indeed possible. I just thought it really stood out when I saw him on screen in the vault with Gordon.

I think you may have misheard about the Tumbler (or that guy misspoke). The Tumblers cost a fortune to make, and we almost certainly would have heard if they built more. They may have modified existing Tumblers, but I sincerely doubt they built any new cars.

Actually, I read at least once before that they did build at least one Tumbler for TDK. I was unable to find the link to the article after a google search, although I found a guy's comments here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/06/home-built-batman-tumbler-invades-the-suburbs/ mentioning the same fact (Look for kjb434's comment on the 6th of August, 4:12 PM). I know he may have pulled it out of his arse, but I do recall reading the same thing somewhere else before.

 

[Saint]

Well, if an elastic suit is built for a 210 lbs man (Assuming Bale had already dropped 10 pounds of extra-weight for his first day of shooting as Batman, it may have been more, or less), it won't shrink to fit a 190 lbs man.

Perhaps; but as we have seen, there is very little demonstrable difference in his dimensions, which suggests to me that if the suit was at all loose, it would not be to such a degree that sculpting an entirely new suit (which would be a considerable undertaking) would be warranted.

Actually, I read at least once before that they did build at least one Tumbler for TDK. I was unable to find the link to the article after a google search, although I found a guy's comments here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/06/home-built-batman-tumbler-invades-the-suburbs/ mentioning the same fact (Look for kjb434's comment on the 6th of August, 4:12 PM). I know he may have pulled it out of his arse, but I do recall reading the same thing somewhere else before.

I'm inclined to believe that guy is full of it, because he says they only used scale models for the first film. This is an outright lie, as anyone can tell you (and as you can see from simply watching the film, not to mention the special features, articles on the production and so on). Regardless of his obvious stupidity, I accept the possibility that a Tumbler was built without my having heard of it (can't catch every bit of news, obviously), though it seems unlikely.

 

[Buttman]

I'm quite certain they've have made new a new BB suit for TDK. I doubt those those materials like rubber keep very well, I'm sure they would have crafted more. I don't think its anything to do with Bale getting bigger or smaller (although I would agree he's a little slimmer than in BB, but it doesn't make a difference) but that they simply wanted to improve the design. A good example is the Spider-man 1 suit vs the SM2 suit. They look identicial, but many changes were made to them, resizing things.. altering things, changing certain fabrics, etc etc. They'll be small/unnoticable, but they'll definiately be different suits from the ones used in BB.

And I'd guess The Tumbler is probably new too.

 

[Saint]

I'm quite certain they've have made new a new BB suit for TDK. I doubt those those materials like rubber keep very well, I'm sure they would have crafted more. I don't think its anything to do with Bale getting bigger or smaller (although I would agree he's a little slimmer than in BB, but it doesn't make a difference) but that they simply wanted to improve the design. A good example is the Spider-man 1 suit vs the SM2 suit. They look identicial, but many changes were made to them, resizing things.. altering things, changing certain fabrics, etc etc. They'll be small/unnoticable, but they'll definiately be different suits from the ones used in BB.

And I'd guess The Tumbler is probably new too.

The differences on the Spider-Man suits were obvious upon inspection. There are no demonstrable differences on the BB suits used in TDK. They look identical, because they are. Wear and tear is probably a valid concern, but that would have only required them to make news suits from the old molds--in which case they would be identical anyway.

 

[Shane Diesel]

He was definitely a little leaner in DK. You can see it in his arms and neck.