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The Dark Knight Capes and Cowls - New Batsuit Discussion Thread

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Doesn't change the fact a ninja would go into a fight expecting to kill his opposition or permanently disable vs. Batman who is going to subdue his opponents.
And it doesn't change the fact that most here have always assumed/wished Batman would take the upmost direct maneuvers to subdue his enemies. That doesn't involve intentionally being seen just before a fight.

If you're seen, you're seen. If not, there's plenty of other criminals/bystanders to get a glimpse.

But no matter what, Bats takes the enemies out quickly thorough the most efficient means.
 
Doesn't change the fact a ninja would go into a fight expecting to kill his opposition or permanently disable vs. Batman who is going to subdue his opponents.
except Beverly Hills Ninja.:woot:
 
First of all, he said that the suits ONLY purpose is psychological. Not main purpose. Only purpose.

Actually, he said the only reason he wears a costume is for psychological reasons. There is a difference between a costume and a suit. A costume is an outfit designed to make you appear as something your not. A suit can describe anything from a fancy item of clothing to what divers put on when they go swimming. So he was right, Bruce dons a costume for one reason and one reason only.

Second of all, I don't care that 60 years ago (or whenever it was), in wildly different societal times than ours, it didn't occur to Bill Finger that an ordinary man fighting crime without superpowers would need a protective suit.
Third of all, Wayne would have to be a rash idiot, plain and simple, to not wear a suit that offers reasonable protection for what he is doing.
Weather it occurred to him or not, Finger may have (like many other writers before and after him) realized that if you begin to enter realism into the super hero genre, too much of it can make it fall apart.

Now, I'm not saying I disapprove of Batman wearing armor, far from it. I liked the aspect of it, especially when it enhances the urban myth aspect of his character like in B89.

But if you really want to get down to it, even with the most advanced protective gear out there today, Batman most likely wouldn't last more then a few months in the real world. All it would take is for him to slip once when jumping around the rooftops and fall to his death or break something that would cripple him permanently, or get shot at close range and have a rib break from the impact and pierce his heart.

Batman is still a fictional character, yes it's crazy to think that Batman could run around saving people without any protection on, but you know what? It's crazy to assume that a real life Batman could exist at all.

Batman doesn't need armor to work as a character. If you don't believe me, then I direct you to Zorro, a character that's been around longer then Batman who also fights men armed with blades and pistols and wears no protective gear.


Fourth of all, even if he wore a suit that doesn't look like armor yet offers protection, when he gets stabbed/shot/whatever and walks away from it unharmed, criminals in our modern times would not jump to the crazy conclusion that he is some supernatural creature, but that he is in fact wearing some kind of armor even though it doesn't look like it.Fifth of all, even if a criminal manages to get a close enough look at Batman's suit to be able to tell that it's armor before Batman swiftly hands him his ass, then he will definately see his exposed human mouth, clearly showing that he's wearing a mask.

I think that's debatable. If you never catch a good glimpse of Batman and he gets stabbed and seems to shrug it off like nothing, I think many people may jump to the conclusion that he's supernatural.

But again, you're trying to implant too much realism into a comic book world. You say that criminals wouldn't assume that he's a supernatural being, I could bring the realistic aspect one step further in examining Batman and say that Batman would have died ages ago anyways.
 
And it doesn't change the fact that most here have always assumed/wished Batman would take the upmost direct maneuvers to subdue his enemies. That doesn't involve intentionally being seen just before a fight.

If you're seen, you're seen. If not, there's plenty of other criminals/bystanders to get a glimpse.

But no matter what, Bats takes the enemies out quickly thorough the most efficient means.
not always. most of the time sure, but every now and then he needs to leave one guy standing and scared, especially for questioning. i like the whole " you've just seen what i did to your friends, don't make me hurt you" feel
 
And it doesn't change the fact that most here have always assumed/wished Batman would take the upmost direct maneuvers to subdue his enemies. That doesn't involve intentionally being seen just before a fight.

If you're seen, you're seen. If not, there's plenty of other criminals/bystanders to get a glimpse.

But no matter what, Bats takes the enemies out quickly thorough the most efficient means.
Wait what are you talking about? Batman takes his enemy out as quickly as possible but he doesn't kill or paralyze them which would be safer then using techniques to keep his enemies from dying.

The point is that there is a significant difference between the fighting technique of a Ninja vs batman; that is why Batman has more armor and padding then a ninja.
 
Wait what are you talking about? Batman takes his enemy out as quickly as possible but he doesn't kill or paralyze them which would be safer then using techniques to keep his enemies from dying.

The point is that there is a significant difference between the fighting technique of a Ninja vs batman; that is why Batman has more armor and padding then a ninja.

1) Seems like people here have no idea how urban legends work.

2) One of the reasons why Ninjas have less armor than lets say Navy SEALS is because back then guns and chemical weapons were not as widespread. You had to doge the sword, not get shot at.

3) This suit reminds me of a "heavy armor" version, like when Batman truly goes to war with the enemy. Very Frank Miller-ish. Does anyone think of Dragon Skin when they see that costume?
 
not always. most of the time sure, but every now and then he needs to leave one guy standing and scared, especially for questioning. i like the whole " you've just seen what i did to your friends, don't make me hurt you" feel
That's fine. But that one left standing, is going to unarmed and defenseless. Or at least he's supposed to. Batman's not going to be an idiot and leave the guy with an armed weapon standing, just to look scary.

Wait what are you talking about? Batman takes his enemy out as quickly as possible but he doesn't kill or paralyze them which would be safer then using techniques to keep his enemies from dying.

The point is that there is a significant difference between the fighting technique of a Ninja vs batman; that is why Batman has more armor and padding then a ninja.
I was emphasizing the stealth and efficiency aspect that they both clearly share. Whether they get disabled or killed is up to the person, but it doesn't significantly change the amount of time to take an individual out. You take just as long snapping someone's neck, as knocking them out cold.
 
Actually, he said the only reason he wears a costume is for psychological reasons. There is a difference between a costume and a suit. A costume is an outfit designed to make you appear as something your not. A suit can describe anything from a fancy item of clothing to what divers put on when they go swimming. So he was right, Bruce dons a costume for one reason and one reason only.

Weather it occurred to him or not, Finger may have (like many other writers before and after him) realized that if you begin to enter realism into the super hero genre, too much of it can make it fall apart.

Now, I'm not saying I disapprove of Batman wearing armor, far from it. I liked the aspect of it, especially when it enhances the urban myth aspect of his character like in B89.

But if you really want to get down to it, even with the most advanced protective gear out there today, Batman most likely wouldn't last more then a few months in the real world. All it would take is for him to slip once when jumping around the rooftops and fall to his death or break something that would cripple him permanently, or get shot at close range and have a rib break from the impact and pierce his heart.

Batman is still a fictional character, yes it's crazy to think that Batman could run around saving people without any protection on, but you know what? It's crazy to assume that a real life Batman could exist at all.

Batman doesn't need armor to work as a character. If you don't believe me, then I direct you to Zorro, a character that's been around longer then Batman who also fights men armed with blades and pistols and wears no protective gear.




I think that's debatable. If you never catch a good glimpse of Batman and he gets stabbed and seems to shrug it off like nothing, I think many people may jump to the conclusion that he's supernatural.

But again, you're trying to implant too much realism into a comic book world. You say that criminals wouldn't assume that he's a supernatural being, I could bring the realistic aspect one step further in examining Batman and say that Batman would have died ages ago anyways.



Well if he specifically meant that the "costume" aspect's only purpose is psychological intimidation, then all he was stating is the obvious. What other purpose could you argue for the costume aspect? You are giving him more credit than he is due, he wasn't trying to make a distinction between "costume" and "suit." In fact, he uses the term "suit" when saying that it's purpose is not protective. Go re-read it.

It is very true that even with a protective suit what Batman is doing is very dangerous, and he could die. But that doesn't mean his attitude should be "Screw it, I might die even with protection, so I'm just gonna go out there in spandex." With that attitude, he would have died when Scarecrow set him on fire. With good protection to add to his years of training toward combat/physical perfection, it is a dangerous but reasonable risk that he undertakes every night for a noble goal.

You honestly think that many people would jump to the conclusion that he's supernatural if he shrugs off getting stabbed? Come on. That idea may have been arguable in Bill Finger's time, but it doesn't hold water in ours. Maybe if he dressed up like an alien :gray:
 
The very premise of batman is that it does matter what he wears. That's why he's BATman and not Anonymous Soldier Man.
This is a fundemental truth.

Superman, for example, would still be a super-man regardless of his costume; on the other-hand, it is only because of his costume that Batman appears to be a bat-man.
 
You honestly think that many people would jump to the conclusion that he's supernatural if he shrugs off getting stabbed? Come on. That idea may have been arguable in Bill Finger's time, but it doesn't hold water in ours. Maybe if he dressed up like an alien :gray:

Who knows.

There was at least one thug in Begins who seemed to think he could fly.
 
Well if he specifically meant that the "costume" aspect's only purpose is psychological intimidation, then all he was stating is the obvious. What other purpose could you argue for the costume aspect? You are giving him more credit than he is due, he wasn't trying to make a distinction between "costume" and "suit." In fact, he uses the term "suit" when saying that it's purpose is not protective. Go re-read it.

It is very true that even with a protective suit what Batman is doing is very dangerous, and he could die. But that doesn't mean his attitude should be "Screw it, I might die even with protection, so I'm just gonna go out there in spandex." With that attitude, he would have died when Scarecrow set him on fire. With good protection to add to his years of training toward combat/physical perfection, it is a dangerous but reasonable risk that he undertakes every night for a noble goal.

That's a good point, I'd concede that fact. Though I will say, for the majority of Batman's history, the suit has been only psychological. It's really been only in the past 20-25 years that it became a thing of protection (aside from specific instances such as when Finger had Batman wear a bullet proof vest under his costume against the Joker).

Really, I think that the reason it changes was due to a change in the style of Superhero comics. They moved farther away from the more fantastical an started telling more grounded stories. While in many cases I like this, I don't want to see too much emphasis put on the realistic aspect.

I actually like the armor, I think it works better then when Batman just goes out in his costume, but I wouldn't say that the character has to be armored. He still works with out it, (like I said before, look at Year One) it just requires more suspension of belief.

You honestly think that many people would jump to the conclusion that he's supernatural if he shrugs off getting stabbed? Come on. That idea may have been arguable in Bill Finger's time, but it doesn't hold water in ours. Maybe if he dressed up like an alien :gray:

Well, it would have to be in a certain circumstance. For instance, if I'm in a dark alleyway at night helping move boxes of *insert random drug/stolen item here* and then I see a big shadowy figure in the shape of a Bat with glowing white eyes leap down from the rooftops and take down five men in a matter of seconds, then my first (illogical) reaction would be that it's not human.

I would be scared *****less, and I wouldn't be thinking clearly. Add to that, if I saw someone stab this thing in the back and it shrugs it off and keeps fighting, I'd be even more sure that it wasn't human.

Of course, it would be at night and I wouldn't have a clear view of Batman either. I would probably only be able to make out a flapping cape and his outline.

I think it's not too illogical for someone in that situation to think that it's a supernatural creature. People today aren't exactly completely logical thinkers. Otherwise why would people still believe in things like the Lockness Monster, Bigfoot, or the Jersey Devil?

If people weren't apt to believe (even if it's a little bit) in the supernatural, then shows about Ghosthunters, or the creatures I mentioned above wouldn't be getting made still.
 
Who knows.

There was at least one thug in Begins who seemed to think he could fly.


Yeah, but is he thinking he can fly because he's supernatural, or because he has the gear to fly?

I did like that line, though. I also liked when the cop says that some of the thugs from the docks claimed he was a creature. I don't mind occasional suggestions toward that notion, but it should in no way be a prevalent one among criminals. Even if there were doubt among some very superstitious criminals, it should be extinguished by word spreading from those who've seen that he's clearly a man during their encounters with him (e.g. Flass, Falcone, etc.).
 
Well, it would have to be in a certain circumstance. For instance, if I'm in a dark alleyway at night helping move boxes of *insert random drug/stolen item here* and then I see a big shadowy figure in the shape of a Bat with glowing white eyes leap down from the rooftops and take down five men in a matter of seconds, then my first (illogical) reaction would be that it's not human.

I would be scared *****less, and I wouldn't be thinking clearly. Add to that, if I saw someone stab this thing in the back and it shrugs it off and keeps fighting, I'd be even more sure that it wasn't human.

Of course, it would be at night and I wouldn't have a clear view of Batman either. I would probably only be able to make out a flapping cape and his outline.

I think it's not too illogical for someone in that situation to think that it's a supernatural creature. People today aren't exactly completely logical thinkers. Otherwise why would people still believe in things like the Lockness Monster, Bigfoot, or the Jersey Devil?

If people weren't apt to believe (even if it's a little bit) in the supernatural, then shows about Ghosthunters, or the creatures I mentioned above wouldn't be getting made still.


I can go along with this. But in this situation you describe, I really don't think it matters how armored his black suit looks in the dark.
 
Yeah, but is he thinking he can fly because he's supernatural, or because he has the gear to fly?
Taken in context, I'd have to say this thug in particular was thinking more along supernatural lines.

I did like that line, though. I also liked when the cop says that some of the thugs from the docks claimed he was a creature. I don't mind occasional suggestions toward that notion, but it should in no way be a prevalent one among criminals. Even if there were doubt among some very superstitious criminals, it should be extinguished by word spreading from those who've seen that he's clearly a man during their encounters with him (e.g. Flass, Falcone, etc.).
Good train of thought here and I agree.
 
I can go along with this. But in this situation you describe, I really don't think it matters how armored his black suit looks in the dark.

You're right, it really doesn't. Like I said above, I'm not opposed to armor. In fact I like it more then when he doesn't wear armor (as a kid I like B89 more then BTAS because he had an armored suit).

But one thing I don't like is when people think he has to be wearing body armor to work as a character. I disagree with that. It just depends on the style of story you want to tell. If you want to tell a more old-school superhero story, similar to one of TAS stories or a O'neal/Adams, then I think it works fine when Bats doesn't wear armor.

If you want to tell a more grounded story, similar to Nolan's style, then yeah, it's fine to have Batman don a Kevlar vest to protect himself.

And then there's the stories in the middle, like Frank Miller's Year One. It has a more grounded approach, yet still still has a Batman with an unarmored suit, and that story still worked. (though he does wear body-armor when he helps Gordon at the end)

Really, it all comes down to the style of the writer. I have no problem with an unarmored or armored Batman, but I don't think it's a necessity of the character that he must wear armor or must wear only a costume. Those are just compliments to the story, not main aspects of Batman.
 
This thread has exploded today. It may just make it to 800 pages again. lol. So it looks as though we will have more to talk about once this new trailer happens.
 
my take on robin

2301314312_6edf57dba9_o.png
 
The focus on the protective nature and technology of the suit, is for me where the design goes off track.

The only reason Bruce Wayne wears a costume is to make a connection in the minds of criminals with a creature of the night that is oft connected with the supernatural. The inspiration for the suit is not the need to stop knives or bullets, it is conceived solely to associate the man with the bat.

TDK's preponderance of obvious armor indicates to me a straying from, or lack of, an understanding of that purpose for the suit.

Batman's most important weapon is psychological. He recognizes that "criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot" (a cornerstone of The Batman's effectiveness), and has created his Batman personna to prey on this achilles heel of Gotham's underworld.

Armor does not frighten, it is physical, it is explainable and hence an ineffective psychological weapon. Being physical it may be defeated by simply employing greater force.

I quite agree. The Dark Knight suit will do just fine, but I'm not particularly a fan of Batman's armor actually looking like armor.

Then there would be no need to use d3o or using something in the real world is moot since it is fiction and you could have it do whatever you want.
It would seem kind of silly to go out of your way to use something that does work in real life and you add something it doesn't do
; verses making something up that does everything you want it to.

Also not talking about Batman's armor which you could use cotton and say its bullet proof; I am talking about if you make a real body armor out of the stuff.

That's exactly what they did in Batman Begins. An actual nomex survival suit made of kevlar does not look, act, or function the way it does in Batman Begins. They simply added those elements in there. So it is silly too, right?

sabeltwinnersuitez4.jpg


That's a real life nomex kevlar knit suit, sale for $850 apiece. And here is a real life nomex kevlar suit used by the Westminister International Defense Unit:

eodbombsuitclipimage001at8.jpg


Yeah, Batman Begins took quite a stretch.................
 
Yeah, but is he thinking he can fly because he's supernatural, or because he has the gear to fly?
Taken in context, I'd have to say this thug in particular was thinking more along supernatural lines.

I did like that line, though. I also liked when the cop says that some of the thugs from the docks claimed he was a creature. I don't mind occasional suggestions toward that notion, but it should in no way be a prevalent one among criminals. Even if there were doubt among some very superstitious criminals, it should be extinguished by word spreading from those who've seen that he's clearly a man during their encounters with him (e.g. Flass, Falcone, etc.).
Good train of thought here.
 
An actual nomex survival suit made of kevlar does not look, act, or function the way it does in Batman Begins. They simply added those elements in there. So it is silly too, right?
A quite brilliant rebuttal, bravo.
 
ya, thats why I think just d3o isn't enough if you were making a protection suit.
Of course something like d3o isn't enough, but the idea of d3o is, and that idea—as it is developed and exaggerated within the context of the fictional narrative—becomes something more than it originally was but yet remains rooted in that ‘real world’ from which the inspiration sprung.
 
Even in Year One, one of the most popular Batman stories, Batman doesn't make the suit to protect him, he makes it to scare criminals. He doesn't even armor himself at all in that story.

Wha say wha? Bruce is armored at the end of Year One. He's not technically in the suit ("Never during the day, Alfred"), but it's there. "Armor" is even in bold letters.
 
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