BvS Cavill talks about Lois knowing Clark = Superman

[Kevin Roegele]

"I think it's essential. Because if we're trying to base it reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office. If she falls in love with Superman, and she's ignoring a guy who looks just like Superman, behaves just like him, and has the same kind of mannerisms and behavior, then what does that say about Lois?" - Henry Cavill

http://www.**************.com/fansites/notyetamovie/news/?a=84360

Congratulations, Henry.

You just missed the entire point of the character.

Lois not realising Clark is Supes is meant as irony, comedy and a wink at the audience - three things Zac Snyder's po-faced, one-tone epic completely missed (much as I enjoyed it).

The point of Superman is the overlooked loser secretly hiding an incredible hero. Siegel and Schuster were always ignored by girls, and they dreamed of being able to show them how amazing they were underneath their awkward exteriors.

I honestly can't believe Cavill's comments. This is what happens when you try to take these things completely seriously - you lose the charm, and the point.

 

[shauner111]

Umm no. Im with Henry and Zack on this. It was always ******ed to add in there. Lois not knowing who he was makes her a complete idiot. The entire point of Lois is not to be an idiot.

You can still have charm without adding that in. Stop living in the past, it's a new way and it's going to be like this for a long time. So deal with it. BTW this doesn't deserve its own thread.

 

[DorneyDave]

That's YOUR view of the entire point of the character.

Superman is open to many interpretations.

I like that Lois knows who Clark is. It's like their own little inside joke. The look she gives him when she is introduced to "Clark" is very charming and playful. We will probably get some hilarious scenes of Clark doing "Clark" stuff in front of Lois and other people. Knowing that she is in on the joke will add to the scenes and their relationship.

Also, the fact that she will be one of the few (probably only her and Batman) that know Clark's true identity, it adds more depth to their relationship. She knows Kal-El, inside and out.

 

[Tra-El]

Umm no. Im with Henry and Zack on this. It was always ******ed to add in there. Lois not knowing who he was makes her a complete idiot. The entire point of Lois is not to be an idiot.

You can still have charm without adding that in. Stop living in the past, it's a new way and it's going to be like this for a long time. So deal with it. BTW this doesn't deserve its own thread.

I don't need to say much. Agree 100% with your reply.

 

[bluearth]

I agree 100% with Cavill.

In the Donner films Lois was outright rude to the kind and generous Clark Kent, but she was infatuated with Superman? It does say alot about her character. Makes her seem very shallow. Also makes Clark Kent look like a desperate idiot for chasing a woman thats clearly not interested in him personally, but rather the 'rock star' Superman. Didnt andybody learn anything from 'Coming to America'? If a woman doesnt like you for who you are but instead chases wealth and power then you're a fool for continuing to chase her. Clark Kent holding on to the world's longest crush is just about as unrealistic and bad as lois not figuring out who he really is.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Umm no. Im with Henry and Zack on this. It was always ******ed to add in there. Lois not knowing who he was makes her a complete idiot. The entire point of Lois is not to be an idiot.

You can still have charm without adding that in. Stop living in the past, it's a new way and it's going to be like this for a long time. So deal with it. BTW this doesn't deserve its own thread.

Yup, completely moronic for Lois to not know Superman and Clark are one in the same. I don't find anything charming about Lois not being able to tell. I think it just makes her look like a fool.

 

[DorneyDave]

Even the Donner films played with the idea that Lois knew and always suspected.

You can't have a completely clueless Lois.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I agree 100% with Cavill.

In the Donner films Lois was outright rude to the kind and generous Clark Kent, but she was infatuated with Superman? It does say alot about her character. Makes her seem very shallow. Also makes Clark Kent look like a desperate idiot for chasing a woman thats clearly not interested in him personally, but rather the 'rock star' Superman. Didnt andybody learn anything from 'Coming to Ameria'? If a woman doesnt like you for who you are but instead chases wealth and power then you're a fool for continuing to chase her. Clark Kent holding on to the world's longest crush is just about as unrealistic and bad as lois not figuring out who he really is.

I hated how rude she was at times not to mention she didn't know how to spell either.

 

[747]

Why so one track minded?

I think both ways can work great and both have their charm and point, all depending on context and execution.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

"I think it's essential. Because if we're trying to base it reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office. If she falls in love with Superman, and she's ignoring a guy who looks just like Superman, behaves just like him, and has the same kind of mannerisms and behavior, then what does that say about Lois?" - Henry Cavill

http://www.**************.com/fansites/notyetamovie/news/?a=84360

Congratulations, Henry.

You just missed the entire point of the character.

Lois not realising Clark is Supes is meant as irony, comedy and a wink at the audience - three things Zac Snyder's po-faced, one-tone epic completely missed (much as I enjoyed it).

The point of Superman is the overlooked loser secretly hiding an incredible hero. Siegel and Schuster were always ignored by girls, and they dreamed of being able to show them how amazing they were underneath their awkward exteriors.

I honestly can't believe Cavill's comments. This is what happens when you try to take these things completely seriously - you lose the charm, and the point.

Yes, the charm that made SR such a success.

 

[shauner111]

For Lois not to know who he is yet to be more into Superman makes her a moron AND shallow. Thank God Goyer changed it around for Lois. A moron working at Daily Planet shouldn't get too far in that line of work.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Umm no. Im with Henry and Zack on this. It was always ******ed to add in there. Lois not knowing who he was makes her a complete idiot. The entire point of Lois is not to be an idiot.

You can still have charm without adding that in. Stop living in the past, it's a new way and it's going to be like this for a long time. So deal with it. BTW this doesn't deserve its own thread.

You're right. Hopefully Snyder will reboot King Lear so everyone knows who Kent and Edgar are, and we can lose all that nonsense about identity and secrecy and how people overlook those they think are below them in society.

 

[The Question]

"I think it's essential. Because if we're trying to base it reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office. If she falls in love with Superman, and she's ignoring a guy who looks just like Superman, behaves just like him, and has the same kind of mannerisms and behavior, then what does that say about Lois?" - Henry Cavill

http://www.**************.com/fansites/notyetamovie/news/?a=84360

Congratulations, Henry.

You just missed the entire point of the character.

Lois not realising Clark is Supes is meant as irony, comedy and a wink at the audience - three things Zac Snyder's po-faced, one-tone epic completely missed (much as I enjoyed it).

The point of Superman is the overlooked loser secretly hiding an incredible hero. Siegel and Schuster were always ignored by girls, and they dreamed of being able to show them how amazing they were underneath their awkward exteriors.

I honestly can't believe Cavill's comments. This is what happens when you try to take these things completely seriously - you lose the charm, and the point.

I have my own problems with Snyder and Goyer's interpretation of the character, but I have to disagree with you here. Lois not knowing Clark is Superman and the two person love triangle infuriates me. It makes her into a buffoonish character. It's meant to be funny, sure, but by way of making Lois Lane the butt of a very sexist joke. It takes the strong, fierce, intelligent, admirable character of Lois Lane and makes her look like a putz. And I'd argue that the two person love triangle is the thing that completely misses the point of the characters involved. Superman wasn't the main character in Action Comics # 1, Lois Lane was. The first Superman story was told from her perspective. From the very beginning, it's been Superman's story as told by Lois Lane, and their relationship is really what the whole thing is about. If they're not equals and partners, then the story loses something huge. Lois finding out and them getting married in the late 80s/90s was a vast improvement, in my opinion.

Even Siegel and Schuster thought so. Only a few years into their initial run, around 1940/41, they wrote and drew a complete story where Lois finds out that Clark is Superman, a story that they meant to publish and have that be the new status quo where she's in the know and they're partners, because that was the logical progression of the story. But DC editorial nixed the idea because they didn't want to risk making money by shaking up the status quo.

Having her not know at first is okay, but you have to have her find out pretty soon after or it just gets creepy and sexist and paints her as an "idiot woman." And starting off without it is pretty refreshing in my mind.

And as others have said, Superman can be funny and charming without the two person love triangle. Heck, I think it gets even more funny and charming because then you can have Lois in on more of the plot and the two can exchange quips and insults in a 1940s screwball romantic comedy like fashion way more often.

 

[DorneyDave]

And as others have said, Superman can be funny and charming without the two person love triangle. Heck, I think it gets even more funny and charming because then you can have Lois in on more of the plot and the two can exchange quips and insults in a 1940s screwball romantic comedy like fashion way more often.

"Somebody come change the water cooler. No...not you Clark, you'll hurt your back"

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Yes, the charm that made SR such a success.

???

The Superman serials, the Fleischer cartoons, The Adventures of Superman, Superman the Movie, Superman II, Lois & Clark, Smallville...the comics themselves for most of 70 years, plus the New 52. I think you'll find they were all sucessful. Lois & Clark tailed off in ratings when Lois found out and they got together, while Superman II explored the fact that if Lois knew, the story had nowhere to go.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

???

The Superman serials, the Fleischer cartoons, The Adventures of Superman, Superman the Movie, Superman II, Lois & Clark, Smallville...I think you'll find they were all sucessful. Lois & Clark tailed off in ratings when Lois found out and they got together, while Superman II explored the fact that if Lois knew, the story had nowhere to go.

Yeah, I don't think that was why they were successful (the ones in bold).

I'm just saying it doesn't really make much of a difference. A lot of people are happy with the change, some are not. It's no surprise Cavill feels that way, and I agree with him.

 

[The Question]

???

The Superman serials, the Fleischer cartoons, The Adventures of Superman, Superman the Movie, Superman II, Lois & Clark, Smallville...the comics themselves for most of 70 years, plus the New 52. I think you'll find they were all sucessful. Lois & Clark tailed off in ratings when Lois found out and they got together, while Superman II explored the fact that if Lois knew, the story had nowhere to go.

In Smallville, she knew he had superpowers before he even became Superman.

As for Lois and Clark, they trailed off in ratings because they hinged the entire plot on the "will they or won't they" thing. When they did, they didn't have much show left. If they had more of an actual plot, they would have been fine.

All in all, I question the idea of the notion of "if Lois knew, the story had nowhere to go" being a fact. I like the stories better when she knows and they're married.

 

[The Question]

"Somebody come change the water cooler. No...not you Clark, you'll hurt your back"

Exactly. How can Lois having the opportunity to secretly make fun of Clark and no one else gets it be anything but an improvement?

The classic model is there's an emergency, and Superman needs to figure out a way to distract Lois and the rest of the Daily Planet staff so he can go change into his costume and save the day. The model I grew up with is that there's an emergency, and Lois covers for him. That's much more respectful to Lois as a character and a much more admirable and healthy model of what a relationship between a man and a woman should be.

 

[batman44]

I'm fine with Lois knowing, but I hope Cavill's approach to Clark Kent isn't Superman with glasses.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I have my own problems with Snyder and Goyer's interpretation of the character, but I have to disagree with you here. Lois not knowing Clark is Superman and the two person love triangle infuriates me. It makes her into a buffoonish character. It's meant to be funny, sure, but by way of making Lois Lane the butt of a very sexist joke. It takes the strong, fierce, intelligent, admirable character of Lois Lane and makes her look like a putz. And I'd argue that the two person love triangle is the thing that completely misses the point of the characters involved. Superman wasn't the main character in Action Comics # 1, Lois Lane was. The first Superman story was told from her perspective. From the very beginning, it's been Superman's story as told by Lois Lane, and their relationship is really what the whole thing is about. If they're not equals and partners, then the story loses something huge. Lois finding out and them getting married in the late 80s/90s was a vast improvement, in my opinion.

Even Siegel and Schuster thought so. Only a few years into their initial run, around 1940/41, they wrote and drew a complete story where Lois finds out that Clark is Superman, a story that they meant to publish and have that be the new status quo where she's in the know and they're partners, because that was the logical progression of the story. But DC editorial nixed the idea because they didn't want to risk making money by shaking up the status quo.

Having her not know at first is okay, but you have to have her find out pretty soon after or it just gets creepy and sexist and paints her as an "idiot woman." And starting off without it is pretty refreshing in my mind.

And as others have said, Superman can be funny and charming without the two person love triangle. Heck, I think it gets even more funny and charming because then you can have Lois in on more of the plot and the two can exchange quips and insults in a 1940s screwball romantic comedy like fashion way more often.

Thank you for a considered and polite response.

The problem with Lois finding out does ruin the status quo. The potential for comedy and irony, and even social commentary, is dependent on that two-person love triangle. The fact that she can't recognise the same man with glasses doesn't matter so much when one artist draws all the men and they all look alike anyway. The problem comes when you try to translate something which is supposed to be fun with elements of comedy, and try to make it as po-faced and serious as Snyder did.

 

[The Question]

I'm fine with Lois knowing, but I hope Cavill's approach to Clark Kent isn't Superman with glasses.

I do agree. To me, personally, Superman is one of the few characters who's secret identity is vital to who he is as a character. It paints a picture of this very multi faceted man with conflicting needs and desires and often times contradictory personality traits. It's like Superman is the man Clark Kent wishes he was, and Clark Kent is the man Superman wishes he was, in this kind of recursive layered personality that I find very beautiful and relatable.

 

[shauner111]

"Somebody come change the water cooler. No...not you Clark, you'll hurt your back"

Haha exactly!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

The model I grew up with is that there's an emergency, and Lois covers for him. That's much more respectful to Lois as a character and a much more admirable and healthy model of what a relationship between a man and a woman should be.

Superman is not about a healthy relationship between a man and a woman. Lois loves Superman, and Clark loves Lois. There's so much potential in that set-up, and it's been used as a core element of thousands of comics. Lois knowing takes away all the fun cat-and-mouse of Lois suspecting and Clark having to make clever excuses, as well as the in-joke the reader/viewer has with Superman. It's George Reeves winking at the audience after Lois has berated him for not being as strong as Superman. Let's not give that up just for the sake of the current fad for 'realism'.

 

[The Question]

Thank you for a considered and polite response.

No problem.

The problem with Lois finding out does ruin the status quo. The potential for comedy and irony, and even social commentary, is dependent on that two-person love triangle.

I disagree entirely. Really, with two witty and self confident characters like Superman and Lois Lane, the only thing you need for comedy is for the two of them to have an argument about something. There's more than one way to get fun and funny into a story written about two characters who are that rich and layered.

And the comedy that comes from the two-person love triangle is at Lois' expense, and in a way that's fairly sexist. It's funny in a very mean spirited way that seems to punish Lois for being a confident, self reliant woman. That's not okay.

Plus, it makes Superman seem like an entitled ******* for not just telling her instead of stringing her along for no good reason, and yet it rewards him for that entitled, *******-ish behavior.

"Women are stupid and you're entitled to mess with the head of a girl you're attracted to because it's funny" isn't exactly a good message to send to the kids. And it does a disservice to two wonderful characters, one of whom is a symbol of string confident female independence in modern pop culture.

The fact that she can't recognise the same man with glasses doesn't matter so much when one artist draws all the men and they all look alike anyway.

Well, movies don't have that.

The problem comes when you try to translate something which is supposed to be fun with elements of comedy, and try to make it as po-faced and serious as Snyder did.

I think the problem is that the fun element you're talking about is inherently problematic, regardless of the tone of the work it's in.

And more importantly than that, I just don't think it's as good as the alternative. Not only do I think that there's still plenty of ways to get good comedy and fun into Superman without the two person love triangle, I argue that there's even more of an opportunity for comedy fun without it. With Lois in the know, you can have her dry wit and argumentativeness in the mix more often, you can have the two of them trading quips and snark and insults far more frequently. You can have that aspect of the relationship not cut off from the plot when it's time for super heroics to happen.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I do agree. To me, personally, Superman is one of the few characters who's secret identity is vital to who he is as a character. It paints a picture of this very multi faceted man with conflicting needs and desires and often times contradictory personality traits. It's like Superman is the man Clark Kent wishes he was, and Clark Kent is the man Superman wishes he was, in this kind of recursive layered personality that I find very beautiful and relatable.

Then surely you can appreciate the added depths of Clark pretending to be two people to Lois, and Lois treating the same man in completely different ways?

Yeah, okay, fine, in real life it would be unlikely for her not to recognise him, but a man flying around in a red cape is more unlikely.