BvS About Martha. The 'masculine' vs the 'feminine' in BVS [SPOILERS]

Thomas Wayne wanted to do good when he made the fist in an attempt to save his family. It failed and the movie shows us two men who take that gesture (the fist, the fight) to the extreme. Superheroes are part of a long tradition of pairing "doing good" with hypermasculinity, but don't usually interrogate the underside of that link.

 

I might check it out. Been trying to get into reading batman comics

 

I don't mind at all. This is a refreshing discussion, with a lot of points to think about both in your OP and in the comments

 

To be honest I feel like its moot, particularly within this movie (which is in line with the genre traditionally). It's part of large and complex discussion though.

If we are narrowly defining femininity as warmth and compassion, then perhaps this comes through at the end between Superman/Lois and in Batman [BLACKOUT]through the way he treats Superman's body[/BLACKOUT]. The problem is that the movie doesn't spend enough time developing women outside of being purely passive to get a definition of femininity as compassion. We never saw Martha's compassion since she just died. This definition of femininity in the movie is constructed more as the absence of masculinity, since that is well defined.

Again Wonder Woman is complicated (which is why I love her) because we interpret her as masculine but for her and her world that's femininity.

 

Never thought of Alfred being that. Great post. I hope we get to see more of a loving relationship between Alfred and Bruce in later movies. They seemed at odds mostly in this movie.

 

Alfred is a bit more of a mother figure if we consider all of the stereotypical associations we have with motherhood outside of being a woman.

 

Gender neutral is a good way to describe it. Especially with how hands on in this he is yet I can totally see him fussing over bruce and dick like a mother hen ha. I wonder if Martha Kent and Alfred will ever interact together. Be funny if they flirted or something and Bruce and Clark were like 'what is happening'.

 

I was thinking about it a few days ago. I think Bruce would be scarred for life haha

 

I'd love to stay in this discussion, everyone is being so civil to one another and seems willing to think about other points of view rather than just going "You're wrong!!", but my time zone means I have to go to bed. Hope it's still going strong tomorrow

 

This is a very interesting observation, since it brought me back to Tomas Wayne's transformation into a hyper aggressive, gun-toting Batman in Flashpoint. He lost his world in Martha, and Bruce of course, so there was no feminine side at all in his life to balance out that rage. I'm not entirely sure what happens with Alfred in the Flashpoint timeline, but even the mainstream Batman has an Alfred that represents a more balanced view of feminine vs masculine, hence maybe that's why we see a slightly more balanced Bruce Batman compared to Thomas Batman.

 

This topic gives me life. This is what I want to see on this board, not discussions about how many people may lose their jobs and will have to commit suicide.

I have more thoughts to add, but I'll do it tomorrow. I have to go for now.

 

A friend of mine saw last night and he didn't like that ONLY Martha Wayne died.

I was like WHAT???!!!!

He thought Thomas Wayne was the guy at the building Superman destroyed fighting Zod.

Because on the phone It sounds like Bruce said, Dad.

I said no, he said "jack" who is one of his underling in Wayne Enterprise.

He still believes that was his dad because the cemetery scene only focused on Martha Wayne.

I was like dude go watch it again!!

 

Maybe it has something to do with the very old, and more conservative Kryptonian society. Maybe that explains why Laura didn't do more. It was a pretty repressive society, where people fit into certain class roles.

 

On this point, I have to disagree. Quite clearly, Superman's first "world" was Krypton. He doesn't come to the realization that Lois is his world until the end of the film. He even states right after the Capitol bombing that the symbol of the house of El means hope - on his world, Krypton, which doesn't exist anymore. So that was his world. But, by the end of the film, he comes to the realization that Lois is his world. Martha is his special lady, as Lex put it, but she wasn''t his world. Lois is, which is the same thing we see in the Knightmare sequence.

 

I think you found a key theme of this movie! I never thought of any of this but what you say makes complete sense and is logical! I remember the fist scene because that is something that never is presented regarding Bruce's father.

This must have been mentioned but I think what bothers many people is that Superman is 100% right about Batman in the beginning of this film. He is a vigilante. Think of those sex slaves that Batman frees, they are terrified of him. A hero is meant to inspire the good, not make them afraid. Batman is lost and broken. Superman saves him.

Most Batman people don't like superman - he is too much of a goody two shoes - but in this movie he is the one that is right. This is in contrast to the DKR where Superman is the one that is wrong.

Sorry about he deviation but great job with the mother/father angle!

 

Snyder made a movie celebrating the empowerment of women, Sucker Punch. If you watch that movie through that lens you will really enjoy. Unfortunately critics see chicks in short clothes and called it exposition, where it is pitched at empowerment.
Snyder clearly sees women as a powerful force. Not surprising given the role his wife plays in his life.

 

Lois is Clark's human connection, without her he would abandon helping the Earth given the way people treat him for trying to do the right thing. You take Lois away, and then you take his belief in humanity away.
You mess with Superman's mother and he'll mess you up.

 

In TDKRises a central aspect is Bruce's mother's pearls. If we want to look closely at it, we could say that it's apart of breathing life into Bruce again, because it's apart of the hint that Bruce is still alive. I noticed this in the movie, how Martha was important to Bruce now in this it. Have a very great day everyone!

God bless everyone!

 

I find it quite hard to believe though that his first "world" is Krypton, a dead planet that he never knew, probably has no emotional attachment to aside from a hologram of his father, telling him that symbol means hope. I think "world" is meant more as his pillar of strength and humanity, and his belief in good, rolled up into a person he cares more than anything else. That was what Martha was to Jonathan, and that is what Martha and Lois is to Clark.