Transformers Character and Story Changes

[CFlash]

From another forum... but worth a shot here as well....

How about we take stock of the changes to the characters and heart of the story (from what is known from the script reviews and leaks). This goes beyond a flat nosed Optimus or size-shifting Soundwave.

Personally, I think the movie sounds good. I'm just not sure it should be called "Transformers." It seems to be lacking the characters and heart-of-the-story that made Transformers what it was.

--- Robots playing other robots ---

1) Megatron is playing Shockwave's character. He's MIA for the whole thing and shows up at the end straight from Cybertron or some other place.

2) Cliffjumper is playing Bumblebee. A small hot-rod sports car. Cool cars were huge in pop culture in the 80's (Knight Rider, The Wraith, Back to The Future, Miami Vice, etc). I always thought the whole point of Bumblebee was that he was NOT a "cool" car.

3) Frenzy as Soundwave. Small human sized spy robot. What more can I say about this that hasn't already been said. Soundwave- quite possibly the most "popular" Transformer- reduced to comic relief?

4) Isn't leaving out Teletran-1 like leaving out Cerebro in the X-Men?

5) I'll briefly mention the discarding of ICONS that Gen-X'ers remember: Including but not limited to Soundwave's voice, yellow VW/hatchback, the minions/cassettes like ravage, which was quite possibly every kid's introduction to the toys because they were so cheap and could be bought anywhere, etc. This has been discussed to death. But, it's worth repeating. SOME way should have been found to "adapt" these icons (maybe an iPod Soundwave? I don't know.... but, something.).

--- A Story not unlike any story you've ever heard ---

6) The Antarctic (home to countless other stranded aliens as seen in the movies The Thing and X-Files and more) rather than a volcano in Oregon. I guess a volcano would be WAY too topical (meaning relevant and meaningful) for a Michael Bay movie considering several volcanoes have been in the news recently (for instance, St. Helens has been slowly erupting for two years now and might blow catastrophically the way it did in 1980).

7) The Quest for The Energon Cube?... rather than a story concerning the siphoning of Earth's natural resources and destruction of the environment? Man, when a cartoon from 1984 is more intellectual than a movie in 2006 you know times are tough!

8 ) Why not a suspensful "Keep them from building the space bridge" plot? Wasn't that the original plot? Alien Nation had a similar story line and it was suspenseful and scary. That would be too heady for this movie I guess.

What are your thoughts?

 

[WalkingDead]

Well some things have to change (adaptation after all)...some things should NEVER change (dammit!!)...and...some things just have to be accepted as new takes/spins. But let's see...

1. Now this is the Biggest Load of Crap for me to shovel/swallow. I'm a HUGE G1 Megatron fanboy, I'll admit it. Dammit this sucks. If they only have Megatron have one major fight, okay I can see that...AS LONG AS he has at least 5-6 short scenes in which he is commanding the Decepticons, plotting his schemes, and showing why the hell he is the Main Villain and Leader of the 'Cons. But if he isn't even shown doing anything, except in a flashback...Screw That! That's a waste of a damned good villain.

2. Actually the point of Bumblebee was to be the character kids related to. Everyone's best friend and the human liason. I can totally accept him being a crappy sports car as long as his mannerism and personality reflect Bumblebee's eager, friendly, and caring personality while he is not the best fighter or even remotely skilled in combat. Alt. Mode won't make him Bumblebee to me personally...it's how close he is to the actual personality and characteristics of BB.

3. I don't think he'll end up being Soundwave. I think he'll be a homage to Soundwave but be someone else totally. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Soundbyte" rumors were true and he is just a scout for Soundwave, who won't make it into this film, but be held off until the possible sequel so he can have a better shot at being done right.

4. If they show the Autobots within the Ark or whatever base they have in the movie (IF they even have a base), then they should at least make a referrence via dialogue that their computer is known as Teletran. This would only need to be a simple one-liner of dialogue from Prime.

5. Don Murphy (the Producer who has spent a lot of time talking to fans) said that IF IF IF Soundwave made it into the film, his voice would be VERY similar to his G1 Cartoon Voice and easily recognizable like G1 Soundwave's voice was. I think IF Soundwave makes it in, he'll have at least one minion.

6. The Ark isn't in Anarctica. The guy just discovers a Decepticon trapped in the ice. That's a neat idea. A lost, lone Decepticon trapped for years under the ice. Makes for a possible interesting story, but if it's just shown and never explained upon then it's pointless. I think "Project IceMan" in the script that the military is running is this Decepticon and that the 'Con will end up being Megatron, which is why it takes so long for him to show up. Don't get me wrong...I think that would suck HARD, having no Megatron cause the military has him captured, but I think that is the route they are going.

7. Think of the "Energon Cube" as the Creation Matrix...which it really is, it's the Allspark given another name. A stupid name, but still a new name. It's still the same thing. I personally believe this stupid name will be changed soon. The TF's fighting over the Creation Matrix is a good G1 Comics Homage and could be for a great story if not boned by other parts of the story.

8. I can see how the Space Bridge would be an iffy thing for audiences not too familiar with TF's. I mean, don't get me wrong...the Space Bridge is an important device in the TF Mythos. But for the first movie, I can see holding off on it. Definitely something for a good sequel plot later though.

 

[CFlash]

Yeah, WalkingDead, I can see how a lot of the stuff that might at first appear "off" in this movie can be seen as set-up for the sequels.
Good point.

Lots of folks were extremely peeved at the the lack of Angel in X-Men. But, in the end, it seems to have done the story well.

 

[WalkingDead]

Don't get me wrong here...

I would love to have a G1 "More Than Meets The Eye" heavy-influenced film, but I also personally don't want a complete redux/remake of that because it is a live-action movie. It is different, a new media really. So certain things must change and alter and adapt. I maybe a fanboy, but I can agree and accept that some things have to change and be re-imagined.

New Alt. Modes, don't bother me for the most part, as long as the characters are nailed in personality and characterization and how they react to things around them. Does that mean I would accept Prime as a small sports car...HELL NO! That really diviates from a huge part of what makes Prime, Prime. Megatron's possible Cybertronian Jet does bother me...because like in every other adaptation in which he is a Jet, it does NOT feel like Megatron, does NOT seem to have Megatron's presence, and seems like he is just a Megatron knock-off that can't compare.

Story-wise I'm okay with a brand new story as long as I can buy into the characters, the action, and the drama. I can also handle beloved characters being killed off, because if it serves the story well and really comes along to push the elements that need to be pushed...then rock on!


Really, all I truly want from this film is the Transformers feel and act like the characters they are based on, if they are in fact based on G1 characters...I want the story to be solid and good, while having fun moments and cool action sequences...I also want it to be a memorable film, something that is NOT "it was a fun, popcorn flick, now I've seen it, I can forget about it."

 

[CFlash]

I don't disagree.... but I also don't see how you have problems with Megs' alt modes but not Bumblebee's.

We've all grown up and forgotton how much we related to Bumblebee when we were kids. Megatron and Soundwave are so much cooler nowadays to us. But, if you sat down and thought about it.......

Bumblebee was not, is not, and should not be a street racer. Adaptation? Sure, make him a mini-cooper. A hot-rod.... hell no.

Why not make prime a red and blue SUV in that case? Starscream a 747 airliner? Soundwave a midget robot... oh wait...

 

[WalkingDead]

I don't disagree.... but I also don't see how you have problems with Megs' alt modes but not Bumblebee's.

We've all grown up and forgotton how much we related to Bumblebee when we were kids. Megatron and Soundwave are so much cooler nowadays to us. But, if you sat down and thought about it.......

Bumblebee was not, is not, and should not be a street racer. Adaptation? Sure, make him a mini-cooper. A hot-rod.... hell no.

Why not make prime a red and blue SUV in that case? Starscream a 747 airliner? Soundwave a midget robot... oh wait...

HONESTLY...
Bumblebee's Alt. Mode change doesn't bother me, I think, because the rumors of the script say he's a 1975 Camero (one of the worst Cameros made, btw) that is rusted, dented, and a down-right junker car that doesn't run well. It seems to me that his disguise and choice of a beat-up, need-to-be-fixed car kinda works. If it truly is a junker Camero, he's not gonna be fast, sporty, or slick. He's still gonna have that classic "not-the-best-or-most-popular-car" feel to him.

I could actually see people making fun of Sam "Spike" Witwicky's car at school or on the street. The kid gets his first car and it's a $4000 dollar P.O.S. that has all kinds of issues, even if it's a Camero. He's not pretty to look at or shiny, it has "engine issues", and it needs work. For someone who's bought their first car when they are young, usually you get a junker. I know I did. So Bumblebee being a junker car to me still fits his character.

ALSO Sam learns his crappy car, which at some point he'll probably end up hating, is really an Autobot Spy. This beat-down loser car turns out to be the best car in the world for a teenager, a friggin' robot!


EDIT:
Another thing is that...SUPPOSEDLY General Motors is supplying and supporting almsot all the car Alt. Modes in the movie. This would cover the old Chevy cars within that frame as well. So that, while not a great reason...kinda lends itself to "we're stuck within a certain car company state."

 

[CFlash]

If it plays out the way you describe, it would be totally awesome.
But, I have a feeling that we're in for the requisite Sam vs Love Interest Rival racing scene at the end. I can smell it. (yawn).

I also don't get why Bumblebee would be "beat up" nor why the The Ark's scout would have chosen a car that's seen nowhere on the street nowadays but choose a modern truck for Optimus Prime.

I hope this will be made apparent in the movie and not simply "plot holes" (typical in Bay movies).

 

[CFlash]

Also re: your chevy comment... how's this for a faithful Bumblebee?...
Chevy Aveo Xtreme
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/aveo_xtreme.asp

 

[WalkingDead]

If it plays out the way you describe, it would be totally awesome.
But, I have a feeling that we're in for the requisite Sam vs Love Interest Rival racing scene at the end. I can smell it. (yawn).

I also don't get why Bumblebee would be "beat up" nor why the The Ark's scout would have chosen a car that's seen nowhere on the street nowadays but choose a modern truck for Optimus Prime.

I hope this will be made apparent in the movie and not simply "plot holes" (typical in Bay movies).

I don't think we'll get some Racing Scene...because supposedly Sam and his love interest get kinda together before the 3rd Act IF IF IF I remember the rumor correctly. In the 3rd Act, they just kinda "consumate" being together. Anyhoo...

From my understanding each individual TF selects their Alt. Mode personally...like in Beast Wars. Which I like so much more than Teletran forcing an Alt. Mode onto them. TF's are known for being able to change Alt. Modes whenever they have the right amount of resources, time, and situation.
And if Bumblebee is still the resident Autobot Spy, it makes good sense to choose a junker car that could go about anywhere newer cars couldn't and blend in --- Auto Shop, Seedy Car Lot, Rundown Alleys, Junkyards, and other places too.

 

[WalkingDead]

Also re: your chevy comment... how's this for a faithful Bumblebee?...
Chevy Aveo Xtreme
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/aveo_xtreme.asp

BUT doesn't this defeat Your thougths on him NOT being a sports car???
Or are you really saying, You don't mind a sports car as long as it's got the hatchback look?
Cause that's two different things.
Not trying to be a dick, but wanting to understand your thought-process here.

 

[CFlash]

BUT doesn't this defeat Your thougths on him NOT being a sports car???
Or are you really saying, You don't mind a sports car as long as it's got the hatchback look?
Cause that's two different things.
Not trying to be a dick, but wanting to understand your thought-process here.

AFAIK the Aveo is a 4-cylinder "sporty" car (a wannabe cool car not unlike a Beetle... and not unlike Bumblebee himself)..... A camaro (even in 1975) is a 6-cylinder "muscle" car. There's a big difference in my book.

 

[Destructicus]

What no one has mentioned yet is Devastator. In the story thing I read on anouther post here at shh Devastator will be in the film. I heard he was going to be a big tank. Doesnt Devastator being in the film defeat the whole purpose of combiners in a sequel. I know there are a lot of combiners to choose from, but you cant have a combiners fight without Devastator being a combiner.

 

[WalkingDead]

What no one has mentioned yet is Devastator. In the story thing I read on anouther post here at shh Devastator will be in the film. I heard he was going to be a big tank. Doesnt Devastator being in the film defeat the whole purpose of combiners in a sequel. I know there are a lot of combiners to choose from, but you cant have a combiners fight without Devastator being a combiner.

According to Micheal Bay "Devastator" is an alias and in fact MOST of the names are aliases, and we won't know the real names until the toy boxes get printed up for the movie.

 

[Golgo-13]

I still have a problem with the rumor that Prime is blue and silver, as seen in some of the sopposed pictures postered around here. I love Prime but it just seems like Bay and Co are making these changes without any logic behind them. It seems like he's making them 'just to take a risk' which could backfire on his ass. I mean Prime not being red and blue to me is about as unfaithful as Spidermans costume not being red and blue....

 

[Destructicus]

I really dont think that is a clip from the actual movie. Remember reliable news wont surface I'm guessing till around august. My opinion.

 

[Night watchman]

WalkingDead:
Well some things have to change (adaptation after all)...some things should NEVER change (dammit!!)...and...some things just have to be accepted as new takes/spins. But let's see...

That says it about as well as it can be said. I used to get upset by this kind of messing around with "canonical" stuff, but both Peter Jackson and Chris Nolan showed me that you can (and sometimes have to) take liberties with the source material in adpating them to the big screen. Jackson & co. in paticular basically re-invented the story in places, but left the essence in tact. So long as Bay and his crew do the same, I think all but hardcore fanboys will be OK with it (Assuming the movie is good).

If I had to pick out a few things I hope remain true to the classic Transformers I grew up with it would be to use the original voice actors (Which I think Bay said he'd consider) for Prime & Megatron. I'd also like Prime to have his traditional color scheme.