ChildLess, ChildFree, and Being Fruitful

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I see a side of it. I'm the oldest of three and I have seen the struggles my mom went through trying to raise us.

Nope. According to the Almighty lazur, you have "NO CLUE" at all.
N.O. C.L.U.E.






He didn't fight in World War 2, so he has NO CLUE if it was unpleasant or not.

 

[BlackLantern]

My initial reason starting this thread was to just get some opinions on this growing portion of people choosing not to have kids, those who think that nor having kids is "opposition to God's will" and most everything in between. Is it right to damn someone for having or not having. What constitutes a good or bad parent? all that good discussion having stuff.

 

[BlackLantern]

I didnt get personal at all. When I made the "tax deduction" comment I wasn't even sure you had a child. Since then I have said I hope she goes on and does great things.

 

[lazur]

I didn't say anything uncivil or untrue. It was directly responding to your assertion that your daughter will grow up to be a more productive member of society and have a positive impact on the world than a poster here will or does.

And you don't know that. Sorry. *shrug*

Okay, answer me this then - since when does what someone does for a living define what that person can contribute to society, or how does it define whether or not that person does good or bad for the world?

It's not a 'job' that defines someone. It's how they live their life and what they DO with whatever resources they have. For example, you take a hooker who gives 10% of her income to charity, and you take a corporate CEO who gives nothing to charity, and tell me who is doing more for society? Who is the better person?

 

[BlackLantern]

so she got a compliment as well....

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Whatever you say.

And no, 'babysitting' does not qualify you as a 'parent', nor does it give you even the slightest amount of insight into the level of responsibility and commitment being a parent requires.

I lived with her. I wasn't baby-sitting. It was my home and it was a part of my everyday life.
And even though the kid did not pl0p out of MY crotch, I was QUITE able to observe what the kid's mother was going through and talk to her about her feelings at length....affording me, not the first hand EXPERIENCE, but....*gasp*.....A CLUE.

You're insane. lol

Sorry, it appears you're just looking to 'win' the argument by claiming you know everything about everything, even when you do not have the experience to back it up.

Again, you're wildly wrong and weird here. I've never, ever, ever said any such thing.

I'm not saying I know what it's like to be a parent. I'm saying that I wish stupid people would stop popping new babies into this disGUSTingly overpopulated cesspool we call "Earth".

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Okay, answer me this then - since when does what someone does for a living define what that person can contribute to society, or how does it define whether or not that person does good or bad for the world?

It's not a 'job' that defines someone. It's how they live their life and what they DO with whatever resources they have. For example, you take a hooker who gives 10% of her income to charity, and you take a corporate CEO who gives nothing to charity, and tell me who is doing more for society? Who is the better person?

Hahaha, yes, lazur.
I am totally confident that your daughter would never become a hooker.
I highly, highly doubt that that will happen and would never even suggest that it will.....only say that it could.


BUT, I am also sure, that if she did, she WOULD be a hooker with a heart of gold, and a most charitable one at that, thanks to your conscientious and devoted upbringing, support and love.
Yes.


lol

 

[lazur]

Nope. According to the Almighty lazur, you have "NO CLUE" at all.
N.O. C.L.U.E.






He didn't fight in World War 2, so he has NO CLUE if it was unpleasant or not.

Just so you know, your analogies are completely flamboyant and irrelevant to the discussion. You're looking to marginalize my point by inserting completely inapplicable analogies into the discussion.

Let me clarify - have I heard of how terrible WWII was? Yes, I have, and I can speculate and understand and ponder it based on what I've heard.

But I wasn't there. I didn't EXPERIENCE it. Therefore, I cannot claim or ask for the same level of understanding or sympathy from others as someone who DID experience and LIVE it. I cannot stand next to a WWII or Vietnam vet and ask for change on the side of the street because "I learned about the war," or because I have a cousin who went to war. I wasn't PERSONALLY vested in it and I didn't PERSONALLY experience it.

Just as you aren't personally vested or experienced in being a parent. And because you aren't, you cannot stand next to a parent and claim the same EXPERIENCE or the same level of understanding.

Which is exactly what you're attempting to do.

 

[BlackLantern]

I can't claim the experience of being a parent, nor did I claim that I could. But I can call the parent stupid if that is my opinion of the situation, or I could compliment them on being a good parent. So if I am insulting or complimenting the parent, is my statement less relevant because I am not???

 

[lazur]

Hahaha, yes, lazur.
I am totally confident that your daughter would never become a hooker.
I highly, highly doubt that that will happen and would never even suggest that it will.....only say that it could.


BUT, I am also sure, that if she did, she WOULD be a hooker with a heart of gold, and a most charitable one at that, thanks to your conscientious and devoted upbringing, support and love.
Yes.


lol

Dude, my point is that a kid could wind up growing up and flipping burgers, but also could wind up someone who's selfless and who helps others. Maybe this kid grew into an adult who doesn't have much, but maybe he or she does what can be done to help others. Maybe she volunteers at the local YMCA to help children. Maybe she joined the Peace Corps. Maybe she jumped in front of a bus to save an old lady.

My point is simply that it isn't what someone does for a JOB that defines whether or not someone is a good person, or whether someone is making the world a better place.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

I don't think it's a horrible idea for people to start examining the reasons why they decide to have kids. Sure, I know it is an act of nature. But at some point you still have to consider what is appropriate and what is not. Responsibility is so key in the matter, and I am fairly certain that a lot of people don't spend near enough time pondering the repercussions and ramifications of creating and raising a human being.

Taking a giant 'dump' is also an act of nature, but you don't just crap in your pants everytime you feel the urge. Nor do you do it right in front of a bunch of people.

 

[BlackLantern]

a Job doesn't define whether a person is good or not. But perception is different. Will you brag about your kid being a burger flipper?? or a successful professional??

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Which is exactly what you're attempting to do.

This is so mind boggling to me, because...that's what you're not getting.
No...it's not what I'm trying to do.
at all.
Maybe if you calm down and breathe you'll understand that.

I don't care about the parent's perspective, I'm sharing MY OWN perspective ON parents.
MY views based on MY observations OF them.

 

[lazur]

I don't think it's a horrible idea for people to start examining the reasons why they decide to have kids. Sure, I know it is an act of nature. But at some point you still have to consider what is appropriate and what is not. Responsibility is so key in the matter, and I am fairly certain that a lot of people don't spend near enough time pondering the repercussions and ramifications of creating and raising a human being.

Taking a giant 'dump' is also an act of nature, but you don't just crap in your pants everytime you feel the urge. Nor do you do it right in front of a bunch of people.

I agree. But I also believe most people (not all) have kids because they truly want to commit to having a family and raising healthy, productive, DECENT children who will bring something good to the world.

The real question in my mind isn't what motivates people to have kids - it's what they do after that and whether or not what they're doing is actually matching their motivations.

There are a lot of bad parents out there, and a lot of bad kids. But there are also a lot of good ones.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Taking a giant 'dump' is also an act of nature, but you don't just crap in your pants everytime you feel the urge. Nor do you do it right in front of a bunch of people.

Thank you.
Yes...beautiful.

Exactly.
See, ANIMALS DO just poo whenever they want to, and they DO just mate whenever they want/can.

Just because that's a natural instinct, it doesn't have to negate our higher mental development.
But when it comes to procreation, wAy too many people let their animal imperative take over.

 

[lazur]

a Job doesn't define whether a person is good or not. But perception is different. Will you brag about your kid being a burger flipper?? or a successful professional??

I would brag about my kid having a kind heart and contributing to the good of the world in whatever way she decides.

Would I prefer that she be a successful professional? Sure, but that would not define her in my eyes. It's what kind of a PERSON she is and will be that matters to me.

 

[BlackLantern]

So if they turned out "bad" you wouldn't love them any less....? If they committed unspeakable acts against humanity, would they still be your little angel? I felt horrible for the parents of the Columbine kids Klebold and Harris, in the fact that they also felt their kids were good people.

 

[lazur]

So if they turned out "bad" you wouldn't love them any less....? If they committed unspeakable acts against humanity, would they still be your little angel? I felt horrible for the parents of the Columbine kids Klebold and Harris, in the fact that they also felt their kids were good people.

No matter who your kids turn out to be, for better or worse, you will always love them.

But they can tear your heart out and rip it to pieces. That doesn't mean you love them any less. However, unconditional love does not also mean unconditional support for what your kids are doing, or for what they've already done.

 

[Symbiotic]

No matter who your kids turn out to be, for better or worse, you will always love them.

But they can tear your heart out and rip it to pieces. That doesn't mean you love them any less. However, unconditional love does not also mean unconditional support for what your kids are doing, or for what they've already done.

I thought I was done, but I'm back. While I agree with most of what you've said lazur, Let me say that if I was the parent of Klebold or Harris, I wouldn't love them after the incident.

 

[BlackLantern]

No matter who your kids turn out to be, for better or worse, you will always love them.

But they can tear your heart out and rip it to pieces. That doesn't mean you love them any less. However, unconditional love does not also mean unconditional support for what your kids are doing, or for what they've already done.

So parents that put out cigarettes on their kids still love them?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I thought I was done, but I'm back. While I agree with most of what you've said lazur, Let me say that if I was the parent of Klebold or Harris, I wouldn't love them after the incident.

You can't say that 'cause you've never had a child go on a murder spree.

 

[Symbiotic]

You can't say that 'cause you've never had a child go on a murder spree.

You couldn't resist taking a shot at me.

 

[BlackLantern]

I thought I was done, but I'm back. While I agree with most of what you've said lazur, Let me say that if I was the parent of Klebold or Harris, I wouldn't love them after the incident.

That gives me the tingles.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You couldn't resist taking a shot at me.

That was a shot at lazur....if you read back.

 

[Symbiotic]

That was a shot at lazur....if you read back.

Now I see it. my apologies.