Classify My Political Stance

[rdh007]

Falwell and Robertson aren't going around telling people to kill homosexuals, so the point is really invalid. Same with somebody like Manson. So I don't really see the comparison between those dudes saying their piece in the name of their God versus dudes killing and committing crimes in the name of theirs.

And even if cats like Falwell come out and state, "I don't like teh gayz!" and some dude goes out in anger and kills a homosexual, you can't "blame" some televangelist for someone else's ignorance and intolerance. That's their choice to interpret the message in whatever screwed up, demented way they choose.

I wouldn't say they're responsible, but that they are part of the problem and not the solution. My point was that they are more responsible than Manson because of the deep and abiding faith that people have in God. No musician warrants that level of seriousness.

 

[The Chairman]

Comparing Falwell & Pat Robertson to Hitler is silly. Jerry & Pat are (well, in Falwell's case, was) idiots who simpply spouted hateful, illogical and hypocritical rhetoric that fellow morosn saw as reasonable and misinterpeted. They're influential no doubt, and I di dindrectyl cite them in my rasons for banning organized religions, but they're not on level as Hitler, who was probably if not definitely the most evil man to exist in modern times.

 

[The Chairman]

I wouldn't say they're responsible, but that they are part of the problem and not the solution. My point was that they are more responsible than Manson because of the deep and abiding faith that people have in God. No musician warrants that level of seriousness.

True.

That last line in your post reminds of when my very religious friend told me that I should stop listening to Sinatra because the amount of women he slept with would brainwash me into becoming a mindless hellbound adulterer. He also said to be careful when I listened to Led Zeppelin.

That being said, Falwell, Robertson and Manson all suck.

 

[Cmill216]

I complete understand what you mean. But, it is up to the mind of the individual, some are just crazy, and accept these things as orders. People are more like sheep than what we believe.

And those are the people who Joker was alluding to in his original post. Those are the people who take religion and use it to justify acts of violence out of hatred.

Don't get me wrong, I'm playing Devil's Advocate. I always side on the individual, but it that is the other argument.

It's all good.

 

[rdh007]

True.

That last line in your post reminds of when my very religious friend told me that I should stop listening to Sinatra because the amount of women he slept with would brainwash me into becoming a mindless hellbound adulterer. He also said to be careful when I listened to Led Zeppelin.

That being said, Falwell, Robertson and Manson all suck.

*puts iPod on Sinatra-only playlist*

 

[StorminNorman]

for the most part. Illegal Aliens create a drain on our economy that is estimated at $380 Billion a year. More a year than the War on Terror.

If we have the fair tax, they won't drain our economy

 

[StorminNorman]

My views:

Abortion - I'm pro-choice fro the exact same reason StormNorm is. (I hope you don't mind I called you StormNorm). Norman's reasons were darn near perfect. I am, however, opposed to late term abortions, simply because I feel it's truly murder. I amn on the fence, however, if it should be the overnment or state who sould have the right to do away with it.

I would agree about late term abortions absolutely. If you don't want the child, fine - but after you have given it enough time to develop into a child, you have forfeited the right to terminate. Its life has to take precedence.

The Middle East - we should be invovled, yes, as there are defnitely factions there that are a threat. But that doesn't give us the right for us to go in their and completely westernize their citizens. While we could provide certain needs to them (education, for example), to go in their and totally perform a complete overhaul on their culture is something I find totally arrogant and this disagree with.

We can't go impose our culture - but we have to have it readily available for the younger generation to bring it in. We have to start guiding the middle east to start honoring human rights - like treating women like equals and radical changes like this. Most middle eastern cultures are barbaric in their treatment of others, we have to edge that out.

Healthcare - I honestly have no idea whatsoever. i'm just going to be the ignorant, dreamer liberal I am and say I woleheartedly support Obama's plan for universal healthcare.

Do you not fear that if we have Europeanized health care it will cut the quality of care and medical advancements in America? When we have people from Canada choosing to come to America to PAY for treatments- I think that is a telling sign.

Religion - A very touchy issue for me, as a practicing Catholic an deeply spiritual individual. I think we need to do away with organized religion. I'm totally cool with churches, cynagogues, msoques and other houes of worship, as well as religious schools. But when we have special interest groups banding together to advocate a religious influence on the government (thus wrongly robbing groups such as homosexuals of their rights), fanatics who abuse their rights by promoting hate speech on tv channels, and world leaders with disgusting amounts of powers heading up these religions thus sparking out public outcry as well as wars, then we've done soemthing wrong. Religion should not extend beyond private relgious organizations. We should definitely keep In God We Trust on the our currency, and kids should still be allowed pray when they feel like prviately in school, and Christmas should no doubt be acknowledged publicly, but it should have no influence on our government or our legal system.

If we do away with organized religion - do we not limit freedom of religion? I may hate it - but I will defend it.

Death Penatly - Another tocuhy issue. It would depend on the case for me.

I should add that I would include rape and child molestation into the capital crimes category. IMO Rape is a worse crime than murder.

I said "essentially." No one can argue the fact that they spout militant hate speech. Hell, look at those Westboro tools for an even worse example of it. And any leader who runs a country based on what the voices in his head tell him should be thrown out of office.

The Westboro cretins are not close to the level of your typical televangelist. You are demeaning anyone spiritual and it could easily be seen as hate speech, if you had a position of relevance and a platform to express your beliefs to a large audience - and one of them went out and started killing christians, should you be held accountable? I think not.

Except that Falwell and Robertson are men of the cloth (or polyester) and that is a lot more powerful than a musician.

Also, I think that while Bush's reasons may have had more to do with finishing his old man's war properly, oil, and simple misguided beliefs regarding war in general and the Middle East in particular; he and his people also saw this (though not consciously) as part of a larger crusade (I use that term on purpose) to do God's bidding in spreading Christianity to the unknowing heathens.

Falwell and Robertson may have larger audiences- but a musician can be just as influential to the individual. Anyone that listens to Manson or whatever is going to be more impacted than him than Falwell and Robertson.

Spreading Christianity? No. Spreading Democracy? Yes.

 

[The Chairman]

*puts iPod on Sinatra-only playlist*

Haha.

Wenesday will be my judgement day if what my friend says is true.

 

[The Chairman]

Do you not fear that if we have Europeanized health care it will cut the quality of care and medical advancements in America? When we have people from Canada choosing to come to America to PAY for treatments- I think that is a telling sign.

Like I said, I really am no too familliar with the health care issue. Obviously, I agree with your point now that you've made it. Again, it's all kind of blurred for me.

If we do away with organized religion - do we not limit freedom of religion? I may hate it - but I will defend it.

I feel a right has been abused, and is violating our Constitution there needs to be limits. Same with any of the rights - speech, religion, guns, etc.

 

[StorminNorman]

I feel a right has been abused, and is violating our Constitution there needs to be limits. Same with any of the rights - speech, religion, guns, etc.

But is a sweeping restriction on organized religion penalizing groups that have not abused and violated the Constitution? Yes - some large religious organizations are wrong - but not all. I fear restricting any Constitutional rights for the actions of a few (I'm looking at you Gun Control).

 

[The Chairman]

But is a sweeping restriction on organized religion penalizing groups that have not abused and violated the Constitution? Yes - some large religious organizations are wrong - but not all. I fear restricting any Constitutional rights for the actions of a few (I'm looking at you Gun Control).

Organized religion has, albeit indirectly, caused more killings in the world than anything else. Ithas been useed to spark wars for centuries and is now being used to violate others' rights. I think that's something to be considered.

 

[StorminNorman]

Organized religion has, albeit indirectly, caused more killings in the world than anything else. Ithas been useed to spark wars for centuries and is now being used to violate others' rights. I think that's something to be considered.

Those wars were never from American religion (prepared hear some tirade about the War on Terror). Again - I think the Government should take the iniative to protect the rights of those being violated by "organized religion" - however I don't think the government should try to limit organized religion. Just like I don't think the government should limit racists (non violent) organizations.

Now if a religious organization becomes violent - take it down. BUT any non violent religious organization is protected by the constitution.

 

[SuBe]

If we have the fair tax, they won't drain our economy

Exactly, chalk another one up for the FairTax! I won't consider the Illegal Immigration a problem except for the NS risk if we have the FairTax.

 

[bell110]

I am going to give you a list of my feelings on the issues of the day. I'm going to let you judge where I fall, politically, as really, I can't tell anymore.

Abortion- All for it. Mandatory abortions! Anything that makes it so there's less of you people around, the better.

The Middle East- As long as it doesn't personally effect me, they can take over the entire area and force everyone to wear duck outfits and worship Bugs Bunny. As long as my gas prices start to drop, that is.

Healthcare- Universal healthcare, so I don't have to buy insurance when I'm out of college and not covered under my parents plan.

Religion- Why is it that some people who say they talk to god get there own tv shows and millions of dollars, but others who say they talk to god, and he told them to oh, I dont know, pull out his member on a carousel or hack up his family with a rusty machete, get put into mental homes? Ban it, as it's just a system of control that breeds ignorance and insanity. All of it.

Immigration- Let them all in. I'm not going to clean toilets, and if they want to do it for minimum wage, let them. They're the best we have until we get those robots that the Jetsons promised us.

AIDS- Put all people with aids into one state, and don't allow them to leave. Move everyone else out of said state. No more aids problem.

So...other than a selfish d**k, what am I?

I classify you as having anti-social personality disorder.

True.

That last line in your post reminds of when my very religious friend told me that I should stop listening to Sinatra because the amount of women he slept with would brainwash me into becoming a mindless hellbound adulterer. He also said to be careful when I listened to Led Zeppelin.

That being said, Falwell, Robertson and Manson all suck.

AHAHAHA, why, what's going to happen? I do not know any very religious people in real life. It must be weird. I wonder what he would say if he heard MY music?

 

[Joker]

I classify you as having anti-social personality disorder.

Tell me something I dont already know. Maybe us sociopaths need our own political party...

 

[Superhobo]

If a President believes in a spiritual leader - I hope he prays to said leader before he makes any decision as large as the invasion of a country knowingly putting thousands in harms way.

Also - if you can point to a single example where Falwell/Robertson/etc. has said "go kill ____" your point is valid. Since you can not, your point is not.

Pat Robertson on Hugo Chavez: "I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop."

 

[Joker]

Pat Robertson on Hugo Chavez: "I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop."

Oh snap!

 

[StorminNorman]

Pat Robertson on Hugo Chavez: "I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop."

Thats not advocating violence against a race, or group - thats advocating violence against a tyrant and a dictator.

If someone said "we should kill Hitler", that doesn't make him evil or crazy.

To make a more accurate comparison even - if someone said "we should take out the Iranian President" it would not make him evil or crazy.

Nice try thought.

 

[rdh007]

Ahhhhhh, but what in hell is Pat Robertson doing talking about Hugo Chavez? When I go to church, the last thing I want to hear about is Hugo friggin Chavez or oil.

Quite a man of the cloth that Pat Robertson. Also, dude did what you asked, Norm. Why not give him his propers and move on?

 

[StorminNorman]

Ahhhhhh, but what in hell is Pat Robertson doing talking about Hugo Chavez? When I go to church, the last thing I want to hear about is Hugo friggin Chavez or oil.

Quite a man of the cloth that Pat Robertson. Also, dude did what you asked, Norm. Why not give him his propers and move on?

Pat Robertson has become far more than simply a man of the cloth - he has become a figure head - and a delusional one at that.

Also, I am not simply going to "give him his propers and move on" because thats not an example of Pat Robertson or anyone telling his followers to go out and kill someone (or some people) based on sexuality, gender, race, etc. The Robertson comment was his stance on government action - not a death order.

 

[Superhobo]

Pat Robertson has become far more than simply a man of the cloth - he has become a figure head - and a delusional one at that.

Also, I am not simply going to "give him his propers and move on" because thats not an example of Pat Robertson or anyone telling his followers to go out and kill someone (or some people) based on sexuality, gender, race, etc. The Robertson comment was his stance on government action - not a death order.

Jerry Falwell quotes -

"The true Negro does not want integration... He realizes his potential is far better among his own race... It will destroy our race eventually... In one northern city, a pastor friend of mine tells me that a couple of opposite race live next door to his church as man and wife... It boils down to whether we are going to take God's Word as final."

"His message of peace and reconciliation under almost all circumstances is simply incompatible with Christian teachings as I interpret them. This 'turn the other cheek' business is all well and good but it's not what Jesus fought and died for. What we need to do is take the battle to the Muslim heathens and do unto them before they do unto us. "

"You've got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops and I am for the President — chase them all over the world, if it takes ten years, blow them all away in the name of the Lord. "


And so on.

 

[fifthfiend]

Oh, and on the subject of death penalty: all criminals, no matter what the crime. I dont care if you're an 8 year old who just stole a candy bar, or even a priveliged white buisness man who's only crime was stealing billions of dollars from peoples retirement funds. If we start killing everyone for every crime, you'll see the crime rate in this country go down to almost zero over night.

What you would get is an epidemic of corruption in law enforcement, hardened criminals who are really good at setting up eight-year-olds, and priviledged white businessmen who are even better than the current bunch of priviledged white businessmen at making sure that none of the crimes they like to commit are actually illegal.

 

[fifthfiend]

We can't go impose our culture - but we have to have it readily available for the younger generation to bring it in. We have to start guiding the middle east to start honoring human rights - like treating women like equals and radical changes like this. Most middle eastern cultures are barbaric in their treatment of others, we have to edge that out.

Why would we do that when we put so much effort into bringing it about?

 

[Joker]

What you would get is an epidemic of corruption in law enforcement, hardened criminals who are really good at setting up eight-year-olds, and priviledged white businessmen who are even better than the current bunch of priviledged white businessmen at making sure that none of the crimes they like to commit are actually illegal.

"This town deserves a better class of criminal. And I'm gonna give it to 'em. You'll see."

If you're good enough to get away with it, more f**king power to you. It's only wrong if you get caught.

 

[fifthfiend]

So your political standpoint is that you want to be murdered by a government run by psychopaths?

Congratulations, you're a Republican.