Congrats Dan! Avengers: The Initiative becomes ongoing.

[Dread]

No I hadn't. it looks great. I'm curious about Komodo, Guantlet and Yellow Jacket are BOTH pissing me off, and I can't wait to see what they're going to do to get Slapstick and Rage to knuckle under to people who bad-mouth their old friends. The New Warriors used to be considered Avenger's Jr. Now they're a joke. That is so wrong.

The preview looks good, for what it is.

I agree on these points. One of the biggest problems of the post CW landscape is that so many of the anti-SHRA's would just give up and register just because Cap surrendered, including Rage of all people. It just reaks of being convient. "Showing too much symmetry", as MGS would say. Alas, the New Warriors are the poster child for a once promising franchise that at almost every turn was bungled and screwed up. The only worse was Marvel's stab at the Malibu Ultraverse in the 90's. They killed it in about a year.

 

[Zoken]

It just continues to annoy me that they play like the New Warriors are in-experienced hacks who didn't know their asses from their faces. They were experienced, and they did know what they were doing. they had every other member of that group neutralized before Nitro went nuclear. And people continue to forget that it was NITRO'S FAULT! I mean by this logic, it really WAS Peter Parker's fault Ben Parker died. Every death Venom or carnage cause is Peter Parker's fault. It's ridiculous.

 

[Dread]

That's been the company wide theme since Stamford. Part of the problem is that Marvel wanted to inject "realism" into their universe by having bystanders die in major battles, just the problem is they went from having stories where everyone would miraculously be unharmed, even into 2004 or so, to going into battles where dozens and hundreds of civilians are killed in every meta-brawl with nothing in-between.

Either Millar, the roundtable cabal, or both decided on the New Warriors being the trigger. The franchise had just seen yet another failed relaunch and they figured they were fair game. It didn't matter what came before. That was part of the problem of CW. The task was to have characters play the roles the story demanded, and to hell with whether or not it made sense.

Unfortunately, they're staying down this road, with a superhuman draft and more SHIELD agents chasing Luke Cage than any supervillian, ever. Find me one panel, one, where SHIELD agents are chasing a bonafide villian with as much fury as they were Patriot or something.

However, I am sure Slott will do a good job given the state of Marvel at the moment as he actually cares about continuity (Rage is still not happy about the NW thing, and Justice is irked that Gauntlet made a comment about the NW like that. You really think Bendis or Millar would have given a damn about bits like that?). For what it is, it looks good. CW is done and this is the road that Marvel has chosen, hopefully we get some good out of it.

 

[Zoken]

yeah, you're right. I almost forgot that Slott was writing this. He'll take care of buisness. I trust the man as a writer. He'll do what's honest, not what sells.
...
Does that make any sense?

 

[Tropico]

Huh, I thought I had seen all the previews and I had yet to catch this one. I know I saw some of the art somewhere before but it wasn't colored nor lettered. Gotta agree with the latest posts in this thread. The stuff I read just makes me want to sigh, dig up my NW collection and post all the times they were training. They even had machines to gauge how strong each of them was. Either Slott has a soft spot for the NW or he's been asked to put stuff that revolves around them in the series, Bengal was there and he wasn't even part of the team, more like a one time enemy. I know that many of the Folding Circle and Psionex were seen in the pages of Thunderbolts (as prisoners mostly) but that one's a given since it was Fabian who was writing it. But, it's like you guys said, Marvel has decided to portray the NW in a different light and it's now canon, meh. I also saw Stingray in one of the backgrounds with the recruits, I guess he's a trainer/assistant?

The series looks good and I can't wait for the almost obligatory Rage/Gauntlet confrontation. It was awesome to see that Slott remembered that Vance has always had a fascination with Cap by the recruit he found. I wonder if some of the kids there will spin out and be part of the new NW?

 

[Zoken]

I'm betting we'll see some student's trying to undermine the system. Well, they should anyway.

by the way, did they ever explain WHY it's called Camp Hammond? I know that's the last name of the original Human Torch, but why after him?

 

[Tropico]

Because the people died a flaming death? The ground was left scorched? They're gonna put the newbs through a trial of fire?

 

[Zoken]

How is it Tropico that you can manage to be so tactless and poignant at the same time?

 

[3dman27]

I'm betting we'll see some student's trying to undermine the system. Well, they should anyway.

by the way, did they ever explain WHY it's called Camp Hammond? I know that's the last name of the original Human Torch, but why after him?

maybe it was a nod to tv's live acton spider-man NICHOLAS hammond

 

[The Question]

It just continues to annoy me that they play like the New Warriors are in-experienced hacks who didn't know their asses from their faces. They were experienced, and they did know what they were doing. they had every other member of that group neutralized before Nitro went nuclear. And people continue to forget that it was NITRO'S FAULT! I mean by this logic, it really WAS Peter Parker's fault Ben Parker died. Every death Venom or carnage cause is Peter Parker's fault. It's ridiculous.

Not entirely. The idea is that, in an ideal circumstance, Nitro should have been neutralized before he could be in a possition to cause that much destruction. The arguement is that, had trained professionals been the ones there instead of the New Warriors, that would have happened.

 

[Darthphere]

I think the Hawkeye syndrome is now being changed to the New Warriors Syndrome. Seemingly, characters no one gave a damn about until they died, and they're thousands of "fans" come pouring out in anger.

 

[Darthphere]

The New Warriors used to be considered Avenger's Jr. Now they're a joke.

Um, really? LOL! I always saw them as a joke, and would never call them Avengers Jr.

 

[CaptainCanada]

by the way, did they ever explain WHY it's called Camp Hammond? I know that's the last name of the original Human Torch, but why after him?

Because he was Marvel's first hero, maybe; well, I think Namor came before him, but his heroic status was a bit more ambiguous in that period, and I highly doubt the US would name that kind of installation after a foreign head of state who just invaded.

 

[Specter313]

I think the Hawkeye syndrome is now being changed to the New Warriors Syndrome. Seemingly, characters no one gave a damn about until they died, and they're thousands of "fans" come pouring out in anger.

*coughAlphaFlightcough*

 

[Darthphere]

*coughAlphaFlightcough*

Them too.

 

[Zoken]

I'm not a fan of the New Warriors, though I think a lot of their characters have potential, I just am annoyed at the way they are trying to make this all work. it just seems forced.

Oh, and I didn't mean in reality, I meant in the 616. They were like Avenger's Jr. at one point, that's why Rage got put on their team.

 

[Dread]

I'm not a fan of the New Warriors, though I think a lot of their characters have potential, I just am annoyed at the way they are trying to make this all work. it just seems forced.

Oh, and I didn't mean in reality, I meant in the 616. They were like Avenger's Jr. at one point, that's why Rage got put on their team.

When the NEW WARRIORS began in 1990, they starred two young heroes who both tried out for the Avengers, but were told they were too young (Speedball and Marvel Boy). They were argueably a stab at imitating the success of Teen Titans, as they had several large and low profile teen heroes with some new faces (Firestar had been coming off the UXM/New Mutants title with the Hellions, Namorita was sort of like Namor's sidekick, Speedball & Nova both were coming off failed solo's, and Marvel Boy had been kicking around a while. Night-Thrasher served the Raven role, the dark new hero who essentially forms the team during an alien crisis, in that case Terrax).

Then you had Rage with the Avengers/NW connection, and later with the Busiek/Perez run of the late 90's that had Justice and Firestar "graduate" to the Avengers.

So, no, it is not out of the question to recall them as Avengers Jr. simply because their first volume was bogged down with all of the cheese of the 90's, and they never had a good relaunch since. And naturally, franchises that crash and burn a good 3 times are at the whim and mercy of the tides of time.

By the very nature of B & C-Listers, you WON'T hear much about them until after they die. I mean who would have gone to a topic that read, "OFFICIAL NEW WARRIORS DISCUSSION" before Stamford? Like 5 people. How many after? 200. Simple math.

 

[deemar325]

I think I've decided, this will be the book to replace Young Avengers for me in my pull list.


Theres to many pluses, Dan Slott?-Check/Good up and coming artist?-Check/New none mutants heroes created by Slott? (for the most part)Check/Effin' SlapStick! and Rage! plus actual use of continuity?!-Check.



Young Avengers R.I.P because Dan Slott is gunning for your sorry ass!

 

[Zoken]

I'd like to see a book... maybe titled "Old Warriors" something like a one-shot or a mini just to catch us up to date with the surviving New Warriors and what their doing and how they dealt with the fall out from all of this. We saw a few of them in She-Hulk, but there are many more who would be interesting to see what they are doing. You know, start with Firestar, then Donyell, Rage, Justices, Slapstick, Hybrid, Helix, Silhoutte, and maybe even Robby (I refuse to recognize him as Penance, he has no crystalline skin).

and is YA ending or something, what is going on with them?

 

[Darthphere]

I think I've decided, this will be the book to replace Young Avengers for me in my pull list.


Theres to many pluses, Dan Slott?-Check/Good up and coming artist?-Check/New none mutants heroes created by Slott? (for the most part)Check/Effin' SlapStick! and Rage! plus actual use of continuity?!-Check.



Young Avengers R.I.P because Dan Slott is gunning for your sorry ass!

Yeah, Young Avengers isn't coming back any time this year, so pointless.

 

[deemar325]

Allan Heinberg is too busy with his television committments, so YA is on hold.
Dan I think has the old NW guys covered, hell he's got Slapstick in the book for crissake.

My interest in YA is waning and I was never fond of Hulkling and Wiccan to begin with so I'm willing to give up on those characters altogether, Patriot included. Unless Dan Slott is going to use the YA heavily in AI I'd rather read a book that has a writer that will keep me entertained.

 

[Darthphere]

Allan Heinberg is too busy with his television committments, so YA is on hold.
Dan I think has the old NW guys covered, hell he's got Slapstick in the book for crissake.

My interest in YA is waning and I was never fond of Hulkling and Wiccan to begin with so I'm willing to give up on those characters altogether, Patriot included. Unless Dan Slott is going to use the YA heavily in AI I'd rather read a book that has a writer that will keep me entertained.

I have to ask why?

 

[deemar325]

I'd like to see a book... maybe titled "Old Warriors" something like a one-shot or a mini just to catch us up to date with the surviving New Warriors and what their doing and how they dealt with the fall out from all of this. We saw a few of them in She-Hulk, but there are many more who would be interesting to see what they are doing. You know, start with Firestar, then Donyell, Rage, Justices, Slapstick, Hybrid, Helix, Silhoutte, and maybe even Robby (I refuse to recognize him as Penance, he has no crystalline skin).

and is YA ending or something, what is going on with them?

I think we had enough one-shots (Unless it's written by Dan Slott or my new 'man crush' Jeff Parker) other than that screw it.

 

[Darthphere]

I'd like to see a book... maybe titled "Old Warriors" something like a one-shot or a mini just to catch us up to date with the surviving New Warriors and what their doing and how they dealt with the fall out from all of this. We saw a few of them in She-Hulk, but there are many more who would be interesting to see what they are doing. You know, start with Firestar, then Donyell, Rage, Justices, Slapstick, Hybrid, Helix, Silhoutte, and maybe even Robby (I refuse to recognize him as Penance, he has no crystalline skin).

and is YA ending or something, what is going on with them?

I can tell you right now, no one would buy that.

 

[deemar325]

I have to ask why?

Not feelin' the 'boy-on-boy' action, Wiccan's connection to Scarlet Witch irks me for some reason, and Wiccan in general was always kinda lame to me(Hulking was cool overall.)


I think the characters would have grown on me over time, but sh-t it's been a whole year since a YA ongoing issue and really my attention span is kinda short, they have no nostalgic value to me unlike say Rage or Justice.