Cosplayer called 'racist' for dressing as black character

[Howlett]

For goodness sakes, Gamora is the alien daughter of Thanos, and she isn't intended to represent/identify with a real-life race of humans (despite the race of her actress). The two images that you showed aren't terribly different (even if the second is less offensive); both instances portray non-blacks as black people in a caricatured, poorly-emulated fashion.

You're being ridiculous now. Those two images are similar? The first one is clearly an offensive caricature. The second is obviously not anything like the first. It's clearly not intended to be offensive and is just trying to emulate a character as accurately as possible.

But because that character happens to be black, the white person isn't allowed to do that for her favorite character?

 

[Travesty]

Eh, apparently context doesn't matter. Manufactured angst and offense is the way to go, and as long as you're being satirical and offensive, it's ok, but if you're not trying to be offensive, you're offensive.

Got it!

 

[Howlett]

Well, if there were an equally comparable tradition of blacks utilizing their dominant social status to justify their racist satire of whites through face-painting, then I would also be opposed. Unfortunately, no such thing has ever existed in history, and thus, the two examples that you mentioned cannot be accurately contrasted with one another.

Also, I've never found a single person who thought that "White Chicks" was funny. It has a very rotten rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and it was almost universally despised by moviegoers. The Wayan brothers haven't ever really specialized in high-brow comedy, and the whole film was utterly devoid of anything resembling intelligent satire or wittiness.

And yet it gets to be judged by everything but the racial aspects of the movie.

It's despised because it's just a bad movie. Not because 2 black guys dressed up as white chicks. No one made a stink about Eddie Murphy dressing up as a white man on SNL, and that was hilarious. And again, no one said anything about him playing a white guy, and not just because it was funny. Dave Chappelle has done it several times too, and it's hilarious.

 

[SuperT]

Eh, apparently context doesn't matter. Manufactured angst and offense is the way to go, and as long as you're being satirical and offensive, it's ok, but if you're not trying to be offensive, you're offensive.

Got it!

Sorry, but if you're starting off any line of thinking, speaking or action with "I'm not trying to be offensive.." 99.9% of the time you're being offensive or at the very least, ignorant.

 

[Onslaught03]

We've already been through this discussion. The first image is indeed an offensive caricature; the second is just a badly-done representation that is in poor taste (given current social mores). The face paint is totally unnecessary, and I'm sure that the cosplayer could have found an alternate method of taking on the appearance of her desired character without opening herself up to accusations of racial ignorance. Intention is irrelevant here, and the action itself (or rather, the willingness on the part of the cosplayer to perform the action) demonstrates significant apathy and prejudice on the part of the cosplayer. End of story.

 

[Howlett]

Yes because white people have suffered under the appropriation, hatred and tyranny of African-American's for 100's of years. Oh wait...

Well, since I'm not hundreds of years old, I can't really speak to that.

Not to mention this woman is from Germany. Was there a lot of hatred and tyranny of African-Americans going on over in Germany for 100's of years?

So yeah. Context matters.

 

[Human Torch]

This isn't really blackface though. It's makeup art.

This is blackface

If you can't see the difference between that, and this

I don't know what to tell you.

It's like asking why they made Zoe Saldana's skin green for Gamora. It's because that's what the character looks like.

Yeah,I mean I don't think people really know what "blackface" is these days.Jolson was blackface,that thing Ted Danson did a few years ago was blackface.It was meant to spoof,make fun of,have a laugh at, etc.

What this woman did is no different than trying to make herself look like a character not unlike Mystique,Gamora,etc.There was no attempt made to lampoon the original character/actress.But we live in an age where every mole hill is a few internet clicks away from becoming a mountain.

 

[Howlett]

We've already been through this discussion. The first image is indeed an offensive caricature; the second is just a badly-done representation that is in poor taste (given current social mores). The face paint is totally unnecessary, and I'm sure that the cosplayer could have found an alternate method of taking on the appearance of her desired character without opening herself up to accusations of racial ignorance. Intention is irrelevant here, and the action itself (or rather, the willingness on the part of the cosplayer to perform the action) demonstrates significant apathy and prejudice on the part of the cosplayer. End of story.

She's GERMAN. Which social mores are you talking about? Germany has a very different history than the US. Intention becomes VERY relevant because of this.

 

[Travesty]

Sorry, but if you're starting off any line of thinking, speaking or action with "I'm not trying to be offensive.." 99.9% of the time you're being offensive or at the very least, ignorant.

And if you're getting into a debate without looking into the context of the situation, or purposefully throwing it out to somehow meet your agenda, you're 100% ignorant.

 

[SuperT]

So now I'm pushing an agenda?! Unbelievable. An agenda to call people out on their ignorance? If so, than I'll absolutely own up to that one.

 

[Onslaught03]

Well, since I'm not hundreds of years old, I can't really speak to that.

Not to mention this woman is from Germany. Was there a lot of hatred and tyranny of African-Americans going on over in Germany for 100's of years?

So yeah. Context matters.

It doesn't. Children of African/German mixed-marriages had their citizenship stripped in the early 20th century, and they were sterilized during the course of World War II. The general population (and Hitler himself) despised these descendants of "miscegenation" and sought to destroy them all. Life in Germany wasn't easy for Africans even before the second World War, and the Germans committed a calculated, brutal act of genocide against an African tribe called the Nama from 1904-1907. You should brush up on your history....

I don't care about her nationality, because that's not relevant here. She should still be capable enough to understand the insensitivity of her actions; if she isn't, then a cursory glance at a Wikipedia page about "blackface" would be capable of enlightening her. And even if she was ignorant of American sociology, common sense should show you that changing your skin coloration to mimic another race is inadvisable.

 

[Shlee]

But I do still stand by the assertion that I think painting your skin to look like another "race" of people is going to be potentially offensive to people of that race, and that it's better to be faithful to the character in all other ways but cosplay as that character in your own race than to try to emulate the race the character is originally.

(And I do mean that in all instances. If a black woman wanted to cosplay Merida and a Mexican woman wanted to cosplay Tiana, and a white woman wanted to cosplay Mulan, more power to all of them. Be as faithful as you want, but keep your own skin color. If people can't see past your skin color to the character you're portraying, then they're the racists and you should just ignore and avoid them anyway.)

Or, because people know it's a controversial issue, they could just avoid the controversy all together and possible offense to people who have a right to be offended by those things and just not do it at all.

I think (and I am not black nor do I speak for black people) that black people would have been far less offended if she'd dressed up as the character and not painted her face to look black. I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am.

Whether or not in this moment she meant it as any kind of offense is a moot point. The fact of the matter is, it is generally seen as extremely tasteless and racist for someone to paint their skin black in this day and age, because it calls to mind the oppression of an entire group of people.

If you don't understand that, and can't see why that minority could be somehow offended by it, then I feel sorry for you.

Also, if you think you have the right to tell someone when they should or shouldn't be offended, news flash: You don't.

Everyone's feelings are valid, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But what I am seeing from (what I can only assume are) white dudes in this thread is that the minority group that this affects shouldn't be offended because you say so, because the intent was not racist.

Also, just because she's from Germany doesn't mean she is ignorant of the suffering of minority groups throughout history. I'm sure she's heard of the slave trade being from Western Europe and all, and they DID have that small little blemish of their own on their record in the 1930s and '40s, so I'm pretty sure they understand what bigotry and oppression are.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Not racist, just stupid. The idea itself isn't even stupid, part of it is the stupidity of modern society for getting offended over the slightest thing, and part of it is the stupidity of the girl for not recognizing the stupidity of society and thinking she could do something like this without a bunch of people whining.

Society is stupid to recognize the historical context of something?

It's whiny to tell people what to stop doing racist things?

Have you seen pictures of fraternity parties where they wear black face and dress urban as a party theme?

No big deal, right. Just white people having a good time. Black people should just laugh it off even though it's obviously rekindles a history of brutal white supremacy.

 

[Rocketman]

So I suppose if any white comic book artists and colorists draw Blade, Nick Fury, Lucius Fox, Storm, War Machine, Falcon, or Cyborg, they're automatically racists because they're depicting a race that isn't their own?

Better call the police - there are artists out there purposely using brown markers and drawing naturally bigger lips and noses to depict realism. Kind of sounds like exactly what this girl did. The only difference is that the canvas used here is her own body instead of a piece of paper.

Give me a break.

 

[Howlett]

It doesn't. Children of African/German mixed-marriages had their citizenship stripped in the early 20th century, and they were sterilized during the course of World War II. The general population (and Hitler himself) despised these descendants of "miscegenation" and sought to destroy them all. Life in Germany wasn't easy for Africans even before the second World War, and the Germans committed a calculated, brutal act of genocide against an African tribe called the Nama from 1904-1907. You should brush up on your history....

Well, Hitler hated a lot of groups.

I don't care about her nationality, because that's not relevant here. She should still be capable enough to understand the insensitivity of her actions; if she isn't, then a cursory glance at a Wikipedia page about "blackface" would be capable of enlightening her. And even if she was ignorant of American sociology, common sense should show you that changing your skin coloration to mimic another race is inadvisable.

Again, this isn't blackface no matter how much you want it to be. It's a makeup job to emulate a character she is a huge fan of. Nothing more, nothing less. Attaching any other connotations to her costume is pretty much all on you.

Unless you think there are other aspects of black culture that white people aren't allowed to emulate.

 

[Howlett]

Society is stupid to recognize the historical context of something?

It's whiny to tell people what to stop doing racist things?

Have you seen pictures of fraternity parties where they wear black face and dress urban as a party theme?

No big deal, right. Just white people having a good time. Black people should just laugh it off even though it's obviously rekindles a history of brutal white supremacy.

Context, context, context. None of those things are even close to similar to what this girl did.

 

[SuperT]

But what I am seeing from (what I can only assume are) white dudes in this thread is that the minority group that this affects shouldn't be offended because you say so, because the intent was not racist..

And there we have folks. That's the entire problem with this thread.

 

[Shlee]

So I suppose if any white comic book artists and colorists draw Blade, Nick Fury, Lucius Fox, Storm, War Machine, Falcon, or Cyborg, they're automatically racists because they're depicting a race that isn't their own?

Better call the police - there are artists out there purposely using brown markers and drawing naturally bigger lips and noses to depict realism. Kind of sounds like exactly what this girl did. The only difference is that the canvas used here is her own body instead of a piece of paper.

Give me a break.

This argument has no relevance whatsoever. First of all, these people are CREATING these characters. They are on paper, they are characters for a medium that is supposed to be enjoyed by others, and even if the people creating the characters are of a different race, they should be more than allowed to depict people of races that are not their own in an effort to give normative visibility to people who can relate to that character in that regard.

She is not creating a character. She is playing an already-created character that is played by a black woman. I have no idea if this woman was black in the comics or was even in the comics. But that doesn't matter.

The point is, that this girl is not creating the character. She is emulating her. I think it's great that as a white girl she connects with this black character. But that does not give her the right to attempt to assume that person's race when portraying the character.

If you cannot see past a person's own race when they cosplay to see the character they are actually portraying, that's a problem. It doesn't matter if she's white playing a black character. Everyone knows the actual character is black and people should be glad that she loved her enough to want to cosplay as her. So she doesn't need to (and shouldn't) paint her skin to look like a different race that is not her own.

 

[Howlett]

Also, if you think you have the right to tell someone when they should or shouldn't be offended, news flash: You don't.

Everyone's feelings are valid, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But what I am seeing from (what I can only assume are) white dudes in this thread is that the minority group that this affects shouldn't be offended because you say so, because the intent was not racist.

Also, just because she's from Germany doesn't mean she is ignorant of the suffering of minority groups throughout history. I'm sure she's heard of the slave trade being from Western Europe and all, and they DID have that small little blemish of their own on their record in the 1930s and '40s, so I'm pretty sure they understand what bigotry and oppression are.

Every race color and creed has suffered some kind of oppression or injustice some time in history.

And you are absolutely entitled to take offense to whatever you want. You can be offended that the sky is blue for all I care. I'm just saying pick your battles. Because there was clearly no intent to offend here, and this is CLEARLY not blackface.

 

[SuperT]

So I suppose if any white comic book artists and colorists draw Blade, Nick Fury, Lucius Fox, Storm, War Machine, Falcon, or Cyborg, they're automatically racists because they're depicting a race that isn't their own?

Better call the police - there are artists out there purposely using brown markers and drawing naturally bigger lips and noses to depict realism. Kind of sounds like exactly what this girl did. The only difference is that the canvas used here is her own body instead of a piece of paper.

Give me a break.

 

[Travesty]

Again, this isn't blackface no matter how much you want it to be. It's a makeup job to emulate a character she is a huge fan of. Nothing more, nothing less. Attaching any other connotations to her costume is pretty much all on you.

Exactly. She's not doing this Cosplay to perpetuate a racist stereotype, she's just emulating a character who is black. That's a huge difference.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Everyone shouldn't always bow down to someone finding something to be "offended" by.

and some times people have a good reason to be offended.

I mean, white people want to be allowed to pour salt onto old wounds and for blacks to just laugh it off or ignore it.

No one is saying it should be against the law to pour salt on old wounds but do expect to be called out when you do.

 

[terry78]

I don't care either way but I don't buy the "naiveté ignorance of American racism" bit. Every person on Earth knows what's racist and what's not, people aren't idiots. A 20 year old from Amsterdam knows full well if he calls someone a ****** it ain't gonna fly.

 

[Onslaught03]

We cannot be blind to the potential implications of our actions. Her "costume" is in the same vein as the racist blackface performances of older eras, and it shouldn't be viewed as good conduct for a society that (supposedly) wishes to move towards racial equality. You shouldn't want to participate in behaviors that harken back to a time of severe racial inequality and extreme prejudice, just out of kindness for the many blacks who were forced to endure these sorts of indignities.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Context, context, context. None of those things are even close to similar to what this girl did.

I understand that and stated that many times already.

This is a case of historical ignorance, not malicious racism.

But people are making the argument that black face in general shouldn't be an issue.

That it's whiny and stupid to address it.