Cosplayer called 'racist' for dressing as black character

[Shlee]

Every race color and creed has suffered some kind of oppression or injustice some time in history.

And you are absolutely entitled to take offense to whatever you want. You can be offended that the sky is blue for all I care. I'm just saying pick your battles. Because there was clearly no intent to offend here, and this is CLEARLY not blackface.

"Pick your battles." Well, they did. They picked this battle, and you are now telling them it's not the one they should have picked. You don't have the right to tell people what they should or shouldn't fight about or should or shouldn't be offended about. PERIOD. If you don't want to argue about it, then go away. No one is holding a gun to your head to keep you here.

And yes, even some different white ethnicity groups have suffered some kind of oppression or injustice some time in history. And that's why you don't go around calling Irish people Micks and pretending to be Irish. That's why people don't go around with tape on their eyes to make them more almond shaped so they can look more Asian. Because these are minorities who have suffered in the past and whose suffering we know we shouldn't further.

So why is it that when it comes to black people, we don't think the same "rules" should apply? Why is it that when it comes to black people, as long as the intent isn't to mock or shame someone, it's okay for someone to participate in what used to be considered an extremely hateful and oppressive treatment of an entire group of people?

We don't oppress people now (or we are moving to try not to) on purpose. And people don't get a pass on something like this just because of their intent and context.

You as a white dude (I assume you're a white dude) in this day and age have not had to suffer the hardships that minorities have. You are not discriminated against. You don't suffer oppression or hardship. You can pretty much do whatever you want and get away with it because the injustice and oppression in the world has been done to pretty much everyone BUT you. And it is definitely not your place, right, or privilege to tell people who have suffered and still to this day suffer discrimination and bigotry how they should feel about topics that affect them, all because you don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Rocketman]

This argument has no relevance whatsoever. First of all, these people are CREATING these characters. They are on paper, they are characters for a medium that is supposed to be enjoyed by others, and even if the people creating the characters are of a different race, they should be more than allowed to depict people of races that are not their own in an effort to give normative visibility to people who can relate to that character in that regard.

She is not creating a character. She is playing an already-created character that is played by a black woman. I have no idea if this woman was black in the comics or was even in the comics. But that doesn't matter.

The point is, that this girl is not creating the character. She is emulating her. I think it's great that as a white girl she connects with this black character. But that does not give her the right to attempt to assume that person's race when portraying the character.

.... Oh, okay.

So if she invented a black female character out of thin air, she's not doing anything wrong by depicting the fictional character?

So is this based on anybody in particular?

 

[Howlett]

I don't care either way but I don't buy the "naiveté ignorance of American racism" bit. Every person on Earth knows what's racist and what's not, people aren't idiots. A 20 year old from Amsterdam knows full well if he calls someone a ****** it ain't gonna fly.

And this is almost the total opposite of that. This girl said, "I like this character and this woman so much, I want to look like her and pretend to be her!"

 

[Shlee]

Even if she invented the character, if she wanted to cosplay the character and it was a PoC, I'd still tell her to stick with her own skin color. People who know the character know what race the character is canonically and can look past the cosplayer's skin color to recognize the character.

For the same reason a black girl could cosplay as Merida without painting her skin white, and people would still recognize the goddamn character.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

And yet it gets to be judged by everything but the racial aspects of the movie.

It's despised because it's just a bad movie. Not because 2 black guys dressed up as white chicks. No one made a stink about Eddie Murphy dressing up as a white man on SNL, and that was hilarious. And again, no one said anything about him playing a white guy, and not just because it was funny. Dave Chappelle has done it several times too, and it's hilarious.

RDJ in Tropic Thunder.

Jonah Hill in 22 Jump Street (against Latinos).

I thought they were funny.

They're white guys pretending to be minorities, right?

 

[Superwoman Prime]

The reason traditional "painted faces" were wrong was because they represented caricatures/stereotypes meant for derision. There are racist cartoons, and there are racist live-action depictions of Africans, Asians, Native Americans, etc.

This girl in cosplay was trying to be more visually accurate. And? What?

 

[SuperT]

The reason traditional "painted faces" were wrong was because they represented caricatures/stereotypes meant for derision. There are racist cartoons, and there are racist live-action depictions of Africans, Asians, Native Americans, etc.

This girl in cosplay was trying to be more visually accurate. And? What?

But that is exactly why it's distasteful and ignorant!! There's a long history of racism behind the act of "blackface" or making yourself up to look African-American so why even do it at all?!

Why is it so important for you to keep the option of doing it valid when there's this terrible stigma around it?!

 

[Howlett]

"Pick your battles." Well, they did. They picked this battle, and you are now telling them it's not the one they should have picked. You don't have the right to tell people what they should or shouldn't fight about or should or shouldn't be offended about. PERIOD. If you don't want to argue about it, then go away. No one is holding a gun to your head to keep you here.

Again, be offended all you want. It must get exhausting though if this tips your scale.

And yes, even some different white ethnicity groups have suffered some kind of oppression or injustice some time in history. And that's why you don't go around calling Irish people Micks and pretending to be Irish.

Have you not heard of Notre Dame?

That's why people don't go around with tape on their eyes to make them more almond shaped so they can look more Asian. Because these are minorities who have suffered in the past and whose suffering we know we shouldn't further.

So why is it that when it comes to black people, we don't think the same "rules" should apply? Why is it that when it comes to black people, as long as the intent isn't to mock or shame someone, it's okay for someone to participate in what used to be considered an extremely hateful and oppressive treatment of an entire group of people?

Again, this isn't that. This is in no way mocking or shaming anyone. In fact, this is the opposite of that.

We don't oppress people now (or we are moving to try not to) on purpose. And people don't get a pass on something like this just because of their intent and context.

You as a white dude (I assume you're a white dude) in this day and age have not had to suffer the hardships that minorities have. You are not discriminated against. You don't suffer oppression or hardship. You can pretty much do whatever you want and get away with it because the injustice and oppression in the world has been done to pretty much everyone BUT you. And it is definitely not your place, right, or privilege to tell people who have suffered and still to this day suffer discrimination and bigotry how they should feel about topics that affect them, all because you don't see anything wrong with it.

You don't know me or what I've been through, but I do believe there is truth to the white privilege that exists. I really don't think it's quite as prevalent as some believe.

That being said, this situation is nothing you've described. She is dressing up as this character she is a fan of, pretending to be out of respect to the character.

Because what this girl did is not what you're describing.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

But that is exactly why it's distasteful and ignorant!! There's a long history of racism behind the act of "blackface" or making yourself up to look African-American so why even do it at all?!

Why is it so important for you to keep the option of doing it valid when there's this terrible stigma around it?!

There is a long history of racism behind white people drawing black people, as I implied.

You'd never argue that a white person should never draw a black person. Why take the stance you are now?

 

[Rocketman]

Sounds like none of us know what we're talking about, and there isn't a clear, distinct solution to the issue. This is why it always baffles me when people go to such great lengths to cry out about stuff when society doesn't really have an answer to any of it, and nobody wants to come forward with a solution. It sounds like a lot of fist pumping and finger pointing when we can't honestly decide what we're crying out about. What's the solution here? No more joking around at all about other races? Okay, let's put that into effect ASAP. No more Tropic Thunder, no more 22 Jump Street, no more White Chicks, no more black comedians having material exclusively about white stereotypes, etc. Let's do it. I'm ready.

 

[The Question]

"Pick your battles." Well, they did. They picked this battle, and you are now telling them it's not the one they should have picked. You don't have the right to tell people what they should or shouldn't fight about or should or shouldn't be offended about. PERIOD. If you don't want to argue about it, then go away. No one is holding a gun to your head to keep you here.

And yes, even some different white ethnicity groups have suffered some kind of oppression or injustice some time in history. And that's why you don't go around calling Irish people Micks and pretending to be Irish. That's why people don't go around with tape on their eyes to make them more almond shaped so they can look more Asian. Because these are minorities who have suffered in the past and whose suffering we know we shouldn't further.

So why is it that when it comes to black people, we don't think the same "rules" should apply? Why is it that when it comes to black people, as long as the intent isn't to mock or shame someone, it's okay for someone to participate in what used to be considered an extremely hateful and oppressive treatment of an entire group of people?

We don't oppress people now (or we are moving to try not to) on purpose. And people don't get a pass on something like this just because of their intent and context.

You as a white dude (I assume you're a white dude) in this day and age have not had to suffer the hardships that minorities have. You are not discriminated against. You don't suffer oppression or hardship. You can pretty much do whatever you want and get away with it because the injustice and oppression in the world has been done to pretty much everyone BUT you. And it is definitely not your place, right, or privilege to tell people who have suffered and still to this day suffer discrimination and bigotry how they should feel about topics that affect them, all because you don't see anything wrong with it.

To add to this: No one has every been subject to systemic, institutionalized, socially accepted oppression and bigotry because they were white. Yes, many white ethnic groups have been oppressed over the years, but it has almost always been by other white people and it has always been for cultural differences that have nothing to do with the racial identity of "whiteness." Jews have been oppressed for being Jews, the Irish have been oppressed for being Irish, but all of them also benefit from being "white," and society has never put them down for that.

 

[SuperT]

What's the solution here?

There's a pretty easy solution here, non-minorities shouldn't do crap that could be deemed racially offensive by minorities. I don't think that's particularly complicated.

I mean damn, ask a minority friend first if you must. They'll probably hit you upside the head first but at least they won't let you walk out into public looking like a plum fool.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

^ I'm waiting for a response, SuperT.

 

[Rocketman]

There's a pretty easy solution here, non-minorities shouldn't do crap that could be deemed racially offensive by minorities.

I don't think that's particularly complicated.

Okay, so what if it gets to the point where minorities can just make up insane stuff that they feel should be deemed racist? Is it no holds barred, whatever they say goes?

 

[Enriquespy]

There's a pretty easy solution here, non-minorities shouldn't do crap that could be deemed racially offensive by minorities.

I don't think that's particularly complicated.

You for real?
Hahahahahahahaha!

Insane, man, insane!!

 

[SuperT]

^ I'm waiting for a response, SuperT.

I'm not really seeing the connection between a white person drawing an African-American and a white person using makeup to make themselves look African-American.

The drawing of African-Americans, or hell any other people, didn't derive or grow from racism. Was there racist art? Absolutely, that doesn't mean the entire art form is racist. Blackface, or the act of a non-minority using makeup to look like a minority is 100% derived from racism. It was used to make fun of African-Americans in minstrel shows, that's the only purpose it had.

 

[Shlee]

It is stupid to assume that your minority friends are going to make s**t up to be offended by if you ask them honestly if something you are about to say or do (or would like to say or do) would offend them.

Also, just remember that not everyone agrees, even in the same minority group. Something that is seen as offensive to one group of people in the same minority can be "no big deal" to other people of the same minority. Individuals get to decide what offends them or doesn't.

But if they are offended, they have the right to be, and the right to express why they would feel offended. And it's not your job to tell them that they shouldn't feel offended, and argue with them why their feelings are wrong.

It is your job to say "I understand where you're coming from, and I know you have more experience with it than I do. I don't necessarily agree with you, but I won't tell you your feelings are wrong." Why is that hard?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I was wrong to expect this won't be a heated up topic.

The best thing to happen after such a debacle is to hope no one attempts to perfect their cosplay if it involves ethnic or racial difference, so it won't be followed by a ruckus everyone is better avoiding.

 

[Bullseye1]

Was this girl based in the US?

 

[Howlett]

I'm not really seeing the connection between a white person drawing an African-American and a white person using makeup to make themselves look African-American.

Makeup and face painting is an art. Much like drawing and painting.

Still a form of art. It's just a different canvas.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I'm not really seeing the connection between a white person drawing an African-American and a white person using makeup to make themselves look African-American.

The drawing of African-Americans, or hell any other people, didn't derive or grow from racism. Was there racist art? Absolutely, that doesn't mean the entire art form is racist. Blackface, or the act of a non-minority using makeup to look like a minority is 100% derived from racism. It was used to make fun of African-Americans in minstrel shows, that's the only purpose it had.

I could mention David Carradine, or a few old western films where whites played Native Americans in a respectable manner, but it's not terribly relevant.

Regardless where the act may or may not have happened to have its original examples, there's nothing inherently racist or malicious about the act. It can be done for racist purposes, but also for visual accuracy, as was the case with the cosplayer.

Rocketman and Howlett refer to art canvas. I agree with them.

 

[SV Fan]

It doesn't really seem racist to me. Racist to me is when you go out of your way to make a disparaging caricature of what a black person is

 

[DeadPresident]

Another ideological storm in a teacup. This girl didn't do anything to cause intentional offense or attempt to mock, deride, defame or insult. That being said I can understand how people might be offended due to its similarity to a sick practice of imitating Africans in a derogatory manner.

Both sides are entitled to their feelings and reactions, but it's getting blown out of proportion now. People should understand if you represent a privileged majority you need to be much more conscious of your conduct, because unfortunately separating someone's behaviour from their race/gender/ethnicity is almost impossible.

 

[Rocketman]

You for real?
Hahahahahahahaha!

Insane, man, insane!!

It is a pretty insane statement. "Anything that COULD be deemed racist" creates such an impossibly wide spectrum of scenarios, it's almost laughable. Also, compared to the world as a whole, Caucasian is second to Asian (#1). African is third. Is it okay for Caucasians to make fun of Asians, since we're a minority to them?

Should white people riot and cry out every time an Asian person dresses like Rick Grimes?

 

[Apollo]

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