Could X3 Be Wolverine's "Last Stand"?

[danoyse]

Don't count out the kids, either. I was in Toys R Us last weekend and they were cleaning out that Wolverine toy section (both the movie toys and Wolverine & the X-Men toys). My friends all have superhero-worshipping kids, and even if they skip it in theaters, they'll be getting the DVD for sure.

 

[PWN3R]

But even the general audience dislikes X3. I'm just basing this off personal experiences, but everyone knows I'm the comic book guy so they always want to ask me how the films compare to the book, etc.

Anyway, a lot of people I know, people who are clueless to the comics and to Fox's bulls***, all say that X3 wasn't as good as the first two.

So regardless of how fanboys feel(hatred) there is still bad taste out there, ironically in the general clueless audience. <----Fox's main concern when making these films

 

[chaseter]

All the non-fans I know were let down by X3 and they have no idea about the history of those characters. They just say that it was a decline in quality from the last movie and critics and most fans agree. If this movie doesn't redeem that then I don't see a bright future for the X-Men at Fox.

 

[PWN3R]

Exactly. I'm afraid what happened to the recent Hulk will happen for Wolverine. A lot of people hate the character because of the Ang Lee's film and didn't bother with the new one.

While I wanted that film to succeed, The Incredible Hulk, I honestly hope Wolverine bites it. That way either FOX looses interest with the franchise and the rights are returned, or they actually start to try and develop these films.

 

[danoyse]

honey, you also have to understand ALOT of people did not see he leak. Not everyone 1) got to it in time, 2) wanted to look at it 3) even new there was a leak

people have to realize that the online community who knew about the leak, and found and watched is pretty small compared to those who didn't.

There's another forum I read that's very pop-culture savvy, and they have a popular thread going about this summer's movies. Wolverine is mentioned a bunch of times, but not one person mentioned the leak. I was really surprised.

I was at a big family Easter party yesterday, everyone was talking movies and TV - no one mentioned that Wolverine had leaked online.

I was looking at comments on Facebook, and for every person posting they watched the leak and hated it, there's at least 5 more people either saying they loved the leak or they're telling people off for downloading the movie.

Obviously it's not much of a real barometer, but it was interesting to note that not EVERYONE knows it's out there to be downloaded.

I think the movie is very front-loaded, and I figured even before the leak that Star Trek is going flatten it in the 2nd weekend...but I think it will be OK.

They're also promoting the hell out of it overseas right now (and Fox is the distributor in all the biggest markets), worldwide it's probably going to do well.

 

[chaseter]

I also don't see why some people want this to succeed to get sequels??? Marvel will get the rights and make all the sequels you want. And, if those aren't good then they will sell the rights again because it does them no good to just sit on it. We will get X-Men movies no matter what and I want to see Marvel give it a shot after Iron Man and TIH.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

But even the general audience dislikes X3. I'm just basing this off personal experiences, but everyone knows I'm the comic book guy so they always want to ask me how the films compare to the book, etc.

Anyway, a lot of people I know, people who are clueless to the comics and to Fox's bulls***, all say that X3 wasn't as good as the first two.

So regardless of how fanboys feel(hatred) there is still bad taste out there, ironically in the general clueless audience. <----Fox's main concern when making these films

"wasn't as good as the first 2" is obvious. Doesn't mean they didn't enjoy it. Or are now completely turned off to the franchise like people were with Fantastic Four

which to be fair F4 had alot more going against it. I heard people actually call it a rip off of the Incredibles. And to the general public, in a time where "family" superhero movies started saturating the market (incredibles, sky high, etc...) came about, of course FF2 looked nothing new, or interesting to them.

 

[chaseter]

"wasn't as good as the first 2" is obvious. Doesn't mean they didn't enjoy it. Or are now completely turned off to the franchise like people were with Fantastic Four

The critics reviews, the fan response, and the huge drop off means that not everyone enjoyed it.

 

[PWN3R]

"wasn't as good as the first 2" is obvious. Doesn't mean they didn't enjoy it. Or are now completely turned off to the franchise like people were with Fantastic Four

That still counts though. People will brush it off and wait for the DVD, that hurts BO numbers. X3 will have an effect on Wolverine, the only question is how big or small?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Exactly. ^

I think some are really overestimating how much love X3 really has out there.

If memory serves correctly, both the first week box office and DVD sales were extremely frontloaded--which to me says that fans supported them more outright than the general audience.

 

[chaseter]

I definitely agree.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I also don't see why some people want this to succeed to get sequels??? Marvel will get the rights and make all the sequels you want. And, if those aren't good then they will sell the rights again because it does them no good to just sit on it. We will get X-Men movies no matter what and I want to see Marvel give it a shot after Iron Man and TIH.

This is why I have a problem with a "reboot" with the X-men and Fantastic 4 Movies....

1) The current X-men franchise imo can actually be fixed. It just takes good writting, good directing, and good story telling. there can be an explanation of cyclop's disappearance in X3, the cure is obviously not lasting (so characters like rogue, magneto, and mystique are far from ruined) Hell we've all seen crazier things happen in comics.

2) the X-men Franchise has alot more stigma to battle if they relaunched it then Hulk did... By stigma i mean attachment. Characters like Wolverine and Mystique made cinematic history on almost an iconic level. They've been referenced in many pop culture events from movies to television, and hell mystique was even shown in a fashion museum!. Hulk did not reach this level (movie wise) nor did the fantastic four movies. Due to this level being reached... i could and would probably have to take a decade or more to get relaunched for people to give a crap about a new cast and new look. Possibly even more then batman.

3) on the subject of batman. One thing the batman had in its favor was a constant change in cast and look. Which makes it far more easier for the revival to have happened. X-men does not really have this luxury.

4) Much like Fantastic Four, X-men got many things right... possibly more right then wrong. Sure some characters are off, but the stories and heart of the movies were very very true. This is the motif that people get tired of. Only fanboys really want to see the same stories played out, only correctly this time. Hell even i being a fanboy doesn't want to see a relaunch of fantastic four.... (maybe a incredible hulk-esque reboot) but seeing the origin again? and re living majority of the same story? no. sorry, but why?

overall i say, and will stand by the idea of "fix whats broken, and don't fix what's not" Now if fox let go of the rights? awesome... But i'd rather see marvel fix the franchise rather then start completely over. Because I'm probably not going to care as much about them making a good reboot by the time i'm 60. lol

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The critics reviews, the fan response, and the huge drop off means that not everyone enjoyed it.

repeat viewings imo have always meant "extremely enjoyed" I enjoyed X3, but did not go see it the following week again in theaters. Majority of those who wanted to see X3, saw it opening weekend. And to be honest... ALOT of people on the boards actually enjoyed the film that weekend. It was later when there distaste finally set in. I remember it quite clearly.

Critics reviews don't really matter to most to be honest. I'll follow them with movie i think look like crap, (and they will confirm it), but when i tell friends i heard it sucked 9 times out of 10 they tell me "i don't care, i'll see it for myself".

 

[chaseter]

Jackman cannot play Wolverine forever, Ian cannot be Magneto for another 3 movies, Patrick Stewart can't keep playing Charles. Sooner or later they will be recasted and I would rather Marvel start it over than it continue at Fox and be forced to recast through this continuous series.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Exactly. ^

I think some are really overestimating how much love X3 really has out there.

If memory serves correctly, both the first week box office and DVD sales were extremely frontloaded--which to me says that fans supported them more outright than the general audience.

most summer films in general typically are front loaded though. From what i've seen summer after summer and DVD sales after DVD sales, the first week is always the highest, and it's very very rare for a movie to continue at a good pace all summer long in ticket sales... And if there is... it's usually 1 movie a summer. Last summer it was clearly The Dark Knight (that's not saying Ironman didnt do well.. but it fizzled out faster then TDK did.)

 

[chaseter]

repeat viewings imo have always meant "extremely enjoyed" I enjoyed X3, but did not go see it the following week again in theaters. Majority of those who wanted to see X3, saw it opening weekend. And to be honest... ALOT of people on the boards actually enjoyed the film that weekend. It was later when there distaste finally set in. I remember it quite clearly.

Critics reviews don't really matter to most to be honest. I'll follow them with movie i think look like crap, (and they will confirm it), but when i tell friends i heard it sucked 9 times out of 10 they tell me "i don't care, i'll see it for myself".

All the fans I went with opening night, including myself, did not go see it again like you said. We were dissapointed and since a lot of people did not go back for repeat viewings, it had a huge drop off. If a movie is good enough to warrant you seeing it 3 times, 5 times, etc...then that means it did a good job. If a lot of people do that and it has strong legs and makes tons of money from repeat viewings then that shows that the fans and general audience liked it.

Critics reviews don't keep me from seeing a movie if I already wanted to see it but critics are critics for a reason. They point out the flaws and the strengths of a movie for the general audience. Critics help keep studios in check by calling out their bad film making and rewarding them for good film making. I have 2 or 3 critics that I find that fit my p.o.v. and I usually listen to what they have to say. Critics are just part of the big picture of a film's quality that I mentioned. No one tell can truly point out if a movie sucks or is great but when you have 3 signs to equate to quality, then it usually ends up being correct. IMO those 3 things are critics, legs, and opening weekend.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Jackman cannot play Wolverine forever, Ian cannot be Magneto for another 3 movies, Patrick Stewart can't keep playing Charles. Sooner or later they will be recasted and I would rather Marvel start it over than it continue at Fox and be forced to recast through this continuous series.

o i agree, but either way, this is not going to come as a fast transition. I personally don't think we will see that kind of reboot majority of you seem to be wantng within the next 10 years. Infact.... i'd give it at least 15-20

Wolverine by fox's standards will make enough to most likely greenlight X-men Origins: Magneto as well as a wolverine sequel, and possibly even the First Class movie.

Thats 3 more movies... which will come out in the course of 6-7 years.

and I guarantee you, a reboot any sooner then 10 years from now, would actually hurt it's chances at the box office.

 

[chaseter]

I truly don't want a reboot. If Marvel took over then I would push for Jackman to remain Wolverine, for Ryan to remain Wade/Deadpool, for Liev to be Sabretooth, etc...

We won't get to see a Marvel film in 10 years anyways because Fox will make another movie after this even if this bombs and this won't bomb so we are guaranteed to see at least two more X-Men films from Fox so that is another 10 years right there.

Once Marvel gets this back if they do, they will start production on a new movie as soon as those rights reach their hands.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

All the fans I went with opening night, including myself, did not go see it again like you said. We were dissapointed and since a lot of people did not go back for repeat viewings, it had a huge drop off. If a movie is good enough to warrant you seeing it 3 times, 5 times, etc...then that means it did a good job. If a lot of people do that and it has strong legs and makes tons of money from repeat viewings then that shows that the fans and general audience liked it.

Critics reviews don't keep me from seeing a movie if I already wanted to see it but critics are critics for a reason. They point out the flaws and the strengths of a movie for the general audience. Critics help keep studios in check by calling out their bad film making and rewarding them for good film making. I have 2 or 3 critics that I find that fit my p.o.v. and I usually listen to what they have to say. Critics are just part of the big picture of a film's quality that I mentioned. No one tell can truly point out if a movie sucks or is great but when you have 3 signs to equate to quality, then it usually ends up being correct. IMO those 3 things are critics, legs, and opening weekend.

there are plenty of movies i've enjoyed and that did a good job I, and many others did not go to repeat viewings to see. Repeat viewings do not mean good. They mean GREAT. What you described is a Great Movie... Great movies have strong legs and repeat viewings. Good movies? not always.

Like i said, I know several people who yes, were dissapointed in X3, but that didnt mean they didn't enjoy it. Many people i know, who while let down, Do not hate X3, nor call it a failure or a flop, or give it the stigma majority of the people on these boards give it. Hell many people compare it to Elektra, HULK and Howard the Duck.......................... i mean come on. Blade Trinity maybe.. but even I enjoyed Blade Trinity. X3 was not a bad movie, it was not a horrible movie, it was not a great or good movie, it was just an "alright" movie. And thats how majority of the people i've met have taken it. Hell I'll say this even, I enjoyed it much more then i did Spider-man 3... And i know alot more "average/non fanboys" who complained about that movie more so then they ever did about X3.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I truly don't want a reboot. If Marvel took over then I would push for Jackman to remain Wolverine, for Ryan to remain Wade/Deadpool, for Liev to be Sabretooth, etc...

We won't get to see a Marvel film in 10 years anyways because Fox will make another movie after this even if this bombs and this won't bomb so we are guaranteed to see at least two more X-Men films from Fox so that is another 10 years right there.

Once Marvel gets this back if they do, they will start production on a new movie as soon as those rights reach their hands.

But a non-reboot means we would still have Halle Berry as Storm.

As much as I love me some Halle (and appreciated her turn as the character) I don't want to see that happen.

Again.

 

[chaseter]

I enjoyed X3 more than I did SM3 as well but after seeing X2, I wanted that same level of quality for future movies and that did not happen and I was let down. That is what happens when you make a product. Once you make a good product, everything after that will be judged from that point. If you make a better product then it continues. If you make a bad product then you are rightfully judged so.

TDK was great, BB3 will be judged on that. SM4 will be judged against SM3 and compared to SM2 in terms of quality. Wolverine will be judged against X3 and compared to X2 in terms of quality.

I understand we go to movies to have fun and let go but once he have had that taste of great, you never forget it. It pains me to see people say shut off your brain for this movie or call it a sfx action popcorn flick because these movies can be so much more.

 

[chaseter]

But a non-reboot means we would still have Halle Berry as Storm.

As much as I love me some Halle (and appreciated her turn as the character) I don't want to see that happen.

Again.

HAHA that is why I didn't list hert: I don't think anybody, but Halle, would be against us getting a different Stormt:

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

1.) Do you think is it fair to count X-Men: The Last Stand as the immediate predecessor to this Wolverine film?

2.) Do you think X-Men: The Last Stand will impact Wolverine in any way at the box office?​

1.) Yes, it's obvious that X-Men: The Last Stand is the immediate predecessor to X-Men Origins: Wolverine

2.) No, I don't think X-Men: The Last Stand will impact the box office for X-Men Origins: Wolverine, because the general audience doesn't hold the same grudge against it that the fanboys do. Budgets aside, X-Men 3 brought in the most dollars at the box office of any of the 3 films, and it also sold about 5 million copies on DVD it's first week of release. More critics and general audience members liked it than didn't. The concencous among the bitter fanboys is not the same as the general audience.

 

[chaseter]

Saying fanboys are the only ones that hold a 'grudge' is wrong. I already said that people I know that aren't fans were put off by the last movie. Just because someone isn't a fan doesn't mean they are void of opinions and don't know how to determine a movie's quality. Not everyone is a mindless zombie that will go see any movie just because of the title.

 

[icelemt38]

I enjoyed X3 more than I did SM3 as well but after seeing X2, I wanted that same level of quality for future movies and that did not happen and I was let down. That is what happens when you make a product. Once you make a good product, everything after that will be judged from that point. If you make a better product then it continues. If you make a bad product then you are rightfully judged so.

TDK was great, BB3 will be judged on that. SM4 will be judged against SM3 and compared to SM2 in terms of quality. Wolverine will be judged against X3 and compared to X2 in terms of quality.

I understand we go to movies to have fun and let go but once he have had that taste of great, you never forget it. It pains me to see people say shut off your brain for this movie or call it a sfx action popcorn flick because these movies can be so much more.

I totally agree with this 100%. And its the reason I was let down by X3 also.