Okay.
I didn't have a problem with any of these things. You must be talking about a poster named Nightcrawler. I still have issues with Magneto's plans because what he did on Alcatraz just doesn't make sense to me from a tactic perspective.
I seem to recall you expressing these distastes as well. I could have sworn that it was you that researched the length of the Golden Gate Bridge, and the distance between San Francisco and Alcatraz to discover that the bridge wasn't long enough.
Expressing a distaste over Magneto's strategy is one thing. Claiming it the be the downfall of the entire film, as I have seen, is quite another.
I would disagree with you over Magneto's tactics. However, if you just dislike them, and that is but -a factor- to the negatives you have with this film, then I don't have a problem with it. I disagree, but it goes no farther than that.
As for the cure darts I never really clarified the most annoying thing about that idea. What bothers me is the plastic cure darts were fired from a plastic weapon with the capability to fire with the accuracy of a tranquilizer gun. That's just bad science. I spent a year studying how projectiles are fired. All projectile weapons need some sort of metallic firing mechanism to be effective. Unless the firing mechanism was a spring, magnetic, or utilized frictional forces I have no idea how the needles were fired. I would have no problem with a weapon like this being used in a Fantasy world were magic exists but, in the more realistic X-Men world it just seems like a really farfetched idea.
While the X-Men movies were going for a more grounded approach (and I thank Bryan Singer everyday for that - there are some elements of the comics that I dislike greatly, mostly when it just starts getting over the top in terms of space travel, time travel, etc...), I still see it as a modern world fantasy, so faulty science like plastic guns really doesn't bother me in the least bit. At some point, you have to suspend belief.
That being said the cure darts is not one of the main reasons I disliked X3. I had major problems with the pacing, mischaracterizations, poorly choreographed fight scenes(with the exception of Magneto's attack on the convoy. I loved that scene. Too bad it's so short.), underdeveloped characters(Arclight, No named Fast mutant with tracking abilities(What was her personality?), almost pointless porcupine mutant, Angel's screen time, Colossus's role, no explanation for nightcrawler's absence, Juggernaut not being menacing enough, Multiple Man's role, Halle berry's acting being worse than the two previous films), some poorly edited scenes and the movie seemed to be sending various mixed messages that I perceived as negative. I'm not sure what the overall message X3 is trying to convey.
This right here is what I would classify as legit concerns over the movie. Again, I would disagree with you that these things ruin the movie, but now we are getting to a real MEAT of what you dislike about the movie.
Was there any good? Of course. I already talked about the convoy attack. I loved the pacing of the Danger room sequence and Kelsey Grammar as Beast(Though I didn't like Beast's action sequences). Everything else was a disappointment.
Fair enough.
I had problems with all of these issues. The Cyclops issue didn't bother me as much because I had prepared myself a year in advance but, some of the other stuff really irritated me.
The Cyclops (and Rogue) issue is still my greatest problem with this movie to this day. I know I have defended the movie's version of the Phoenix Saga, and I will continue to do so, but the actual DEATH of Cyclops is something I will never get over. The movie can still be good in spite of it, but it still bothers me that is the direction they took. That (and Rogue's curing) I see as a slap in the face of the source material. Making changes like turning Jean into a doctor, making Storm one of Xavier's original students, not including Iceman and Angel on the original team, turning Lady Deathstrike and Juggernaut into mutants, making Stryker a Colonel behind Weapon X - I can accept all of these changes because while it's not the source material, none of this changes the actual spirit of the stories.
Killing Cyclops (in the Phoenix Saga of all stories) and curing Rogue absolutely goes against the spirit of the stories and characters. Ditto for turning Wolverine into a leader.
I can still accept the movie, and enjoy it, because I still see more good than bad, more accuracy than not, but these changes absolutely do bother me. I was originally one of those people that I complain about that couldn't get past the fate of a couple characters, and let it ruin the entire thing for me.
The thing is you don't know if these people have seen the movie or not. Some appear to be irrational because they're letting they're anger negatively dictate their actions. However, if they weren't entertained then they really don't need to give you a long winded explanation for why they disliked Wolverine.
Well, the thing is, it's all in how you present yourself.
When I do the same things, and bash Del Toro, or say that the X-Men movies are better than the Batman / Spiderman movies, etc... people (including yourself) read my opinions and react with a "wtf?!!!" moment.
When I actually present my view in a thought out manner, and explain that I felt that Del Toro ruined the Blade world for me by making it too campy and cheesy, or didn't deliver on what I thought to be a very dark and epic story (
Hellboy), or I explain that I don't find the enjoyment out of Batman because I don't have the same love and attatchment to the characters, people can look at it and say "Oh, I see."
They might disagree with me, but they understand where I am coming from.
When somebody just says "It SUCKS", a statement like that is usually to get a reaction. When you back yourself up (and it doesn't take an essay like I do to back up your opinion), it's to express a viewpoint, and offer criticism. Constructive criticism is always a much more positive approach to the situation than "OMG'z it suxx0rz".
I understand your point but, there are people who have had negative experiences with Hip Hop music and have legitimate reasons to hold a grudge against it. I'm one of these people. I used to love hip hop in the late 80s and early 90s. Then I began to listen to other forms of music and lost my desire to continue listening to it. I was called a sellout to my race, made fun off, and lost some friends because I lost interest in hip hop. These friends I lost were clearly influenced negatively by hip hop.
I wouldn't say that what you describe here is an ignorant or irrational view on Hip Hop. Again, I would disagree with your assessment, but I am talking about the people who know nothing of the genre, and automatically assume that everything is all about violence, and drugs, and degrading women.
There are plenty of artists that don't even touch on that subject matter, and there are many artists that, while they may touch on that subject matter they don't do so in a glamorizing light. Classifying all Hip Hop as unintelligent, untalented, and violent is the same as classifying all comic books as illiterate.
Once again I understand your point but, I think you're taking this way too seriously. I don't think most people who hate these X-Men films and hip hop are trying to insult those who like these forms of art. They have a bias against them because they feel insulted by them. The most positive thing you can do is try to understand the bias but, at some point you should accept what appears to be irrational and move on. Complaining about the perceived irrationality isn't going to change anything.
Some are trying to insult though.
It doesn't always have to be a "You like this? You're stupid!" blatant in your face insult to be meant as insulting. You can insult someone subtly also.
Sure. Just like there's probably a lot of irrational praise in favor of X3.
Oh yes there is, sure. Even today, there is irrational praise of
Wolverine. I mean, I got nothing against the guy, but Peter McCabe is the same way. He hasn't even SEEN the movie, but he's coming down on people who don't like it.
The main problems with all the X3 Hater vs. Lover tension started during the summer of 2006. Initially, the people who liked the film bashed those who were disappointed. The X3 haters pushed back and an all out war started and continued for a whole year. I'll admit that I took things too far but, it was never my intention to irritate and chastise those who enjoyed X3. I've gotten over my contempt of X3. I don't feel any hate towards the movie, those who like X3, or those who will like Wolverine. I feel numb towards these movies and the debates going on in these threads are quite boring. I'm probably going to go on hiatus from this forum 2 and half weeks from now because I'm afraid this place will turn into the disaster X3 was and I don't want any part of that negativity ever again.
Yes, you're right, I remember those arguments, and you are probably right in the fact that it will happen again. It's ALREADY happening, and only a few of us have even seen the movie via the leak. The movie hasn't even come out for the rest of us yet, and we're already bickering like 3 years ago.
A reboot can be just as good or better than the original films and you saying they can't be is wrong.
