Cyberpunk 2077

[Calvin Ellis]

I'm actually loving this game when cars and motorcycles aren't just popping out of the sky on me or when people appear out of no where shooting me. I've already gotten use to the occasionally walk/glide through a building people and face that look like they are from PS one before they auto correct themselves.

 

[Gee]

Patch 1.2 is out with lots of fixes and QoL improvements.

Patch 1.2 — list of changes

 

[psylockolussus]

Putting Cyberpunk 2077 Back on the PlayStation Store is a Sony Decision

Is there any big game that was pulled from ps store other than this game?

 

[Iceman]

CD Projekt execs get big bonuses despite messy Cyberpunk 2077 launch

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* A more accurate headline would be "Everyone in CD Projekt gets bonuses despite messy launch". Its not only the top execs that benefit from the profit sharing.

( Insert inevitable "Blah blah big bosses get the biggest cut" argument, to which I say "Dude, without those evil horrible 'executives' and 'managers' and the capital funding they bring, those 'doing all the actual work' programmers wouldn't even be able to attempt making a game on this scale in the first place. There's a reason indie development operates on a more limited scale." Which isn't to say management didn't **** things up with the Cyberpunk launch, but seriously. There are *far* worse offenses and offenders within the industry. )

 

[TheVileOne]

Gaming devs should unionize if they want a bigger piece of the pie.

 

[Marvolo]

*cough* A more accurate headline would be "Everyone in CD Projekt gets bonuses despite messy launch". Its not only the top execs that benefit from the profit sharing.

( Insert inevitable "Blah blah big bosses get the biggest cut" argument, to which I say "Dude, without those evil horrible 'executives' and 'managers' and the capital funding they bring, those 'doing all the actual work' programmers wouldn't even be able to attempt making a game on this scale in the first place. There's a reason indie development operates on a more limited scale." Which isn't to say management didn't **** things up with the Cyberpunk launch, but seriously. There are *far* worse offenses and offenders within the industry. )

The CDPR execs didn't deserve any share. If anything they should have gotten a pay cut.

And these days investors aren't the primary capital source for video game development. Publishers make billions off microtransactions. Microtransactions pay for game development at this point. Gamers buy those microtransactions. Not investors.

 

[Sithborg]

Gaming devs should unionize if they want a bigger piece of the pie.

They need to unionize for a LOT of other reasons, as well.

 

[metaphysician]

The CDPR execs didn't deserve any share. If anything they should have gotten a pay cut.

And these days investors aren't the primary capital source for video game development. Publishers make billions off microtransactions. Microtransactions pay for game development at this point. Gamers buy those microtransactions. Not investors.

And do you think those MTX payments start arriving at the office five or so years *before* the game is released? No? So if not, who exactly is paying the salary for those programmers the several years *before* they have a salable product?

I did not say "revenue". I said "capital", and I said it for a reason. Before you can even attempt to make a big video game release, you need money, a *lot* of money, up front. Because the hundreds of people needed to make a Cyberpunk or an Uncharted don't work for free.

 

[TheVileOne]

They need to unionize for a LOT of other reasons, as well.

There are a lot of reasons, but if they want it, they have to make it happen themselves.

 

[Marvolo]

And do you think those MTX payments start arriving at the office five or so years *before* the game is released? No? So if not, who exactly is paying the salary for those programmers the several years *before* they have a salable product?

I did not say "revenue". I said "capital", and I said it for a reason. Before you can even attempt to make a big video game release, you need money, a *lot* of money, up front. Because the hundreds of people needed to make a Cyberpunk or an Uncharted don't work for free.

Microtransactions have been around for over a decade. Activision made $1 billion dollars in 3 months last year. GTA Online by itself brings in over $1 billion for Rockstar every year. EA has made over $6 billion dollars from Ultimate Team microtransacrion in the last 5 years. Microtransactions are paying the salaries of the devs and funding games and have been for years.

If you want to talk about new publishers then yeah they need investors to start up and need execs to get those investors. But the major publishers these days don't need investors. They are firmly established and have more money coming in every year from MTX. The investors and execs at the major publishers at this point are nothing but grifters and parasites sucking up millions, and leaving scraps for the actual employees that work themselves to death for our entertainment.

 

[metaphysician]

If you want to establish a new company where the investors get paid in bonds with a finite payout, at which point said investors have no more ownership and involvement in the company? Feel free to try it out. I kind of suspect you wouldn't like the outcome, in terms of how much capital you *wouldn't* bring in, and thus how much your company *wouldn't* be able to do.

There is a *lot* wrong with how most AAA studios are managed, but your suggested not-solution feels an awful lot like "Thanks for funding us when we needed it, now that we don't need you anymore, enjoy this boot to the face".

 

[Iceman]

Sounds like the the investors are the ones who should be calling for the execs to be replaced in this case. Their money is going down the toilet due to severe mismanagement.

 

[metaphysician]

Sounds like the the investors are the ones who should be calling for the execs to be replaced in this case. Their money is going down the toilet due to severe mismanagement.

I mean, I bet they *are* raising voices about the PR mess, just not in public.

 

[Sithborg]

Depending on this game to continue your funding is probably not a great idea.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Digital sales are hurting them. Especially when you consider they are now just trying to re-list on the Playstation store. That's 4 months without the ability to sell with 20 bucks off and get reactionary buyers on the store.

They deserve this.

 

[Marvolo]

If you want to establish a new company where the investors get paid in bonds with a finite payout, at which point said investors have no more ownership and involvement in the company? Feel free to try it out. I kind of suspect you wouldn't like the outcome, in terms of how much capital you *wouldn't* bring in, and thus how much your company *wouldn't* be able to do.

There is a *lot* wrong with how most AAA studios are managed, but your suggested not-solution feels an awful lot like "Thanks for funding us when we needed it, now that we don't need you anymore, enjoy this boot to the face".

Those poor obscenely rich investors being shown the door after they've made millions of dollars more off the backs of the company's grunts.

 

[metaphysician]

Those poor obscenely rich investors being shown the door after they've made millions of dollars more off the backs of the company's grunts.

You continue talking past me. You can hate investors as much as you want. You can hold them in contempt as much as you want. None of this will change the simple fact that if you want to do AAA-scale game development, *you need their money*, because AAA game development is expensive. Without that kind of financial backing, *the kind of backing that comes with strings*, you simply are incapable of even starting whatever dream game you imagine making. And if your pitch to would-be investors is "Pay me X million now for developing a studio, and then if we eventually release you get 2X million in payout and then I boot you out the door", you will get your ass laughed at and they will take their money elsewhere.

 

[TheVileOne]

Microtransactions have been around for over a decade. Activision made $1 billion dollars in 3 months last year. GTA Online by itself brings in over $1 billion for Rockstar every year. EA has made over $6 billion dollars from Ultimate Team microtransacrion in the last 5 years. Microtransactions are paying the salaries of the devs and funding games and have been for years.

If you want to talk about new publishers then yeah they need investors to start up and need execs to get those investors. But the major publishers these days don't need investors. They are firmly established and have more money coming in every year from MTX. The investors and execs at the major publishers at this point are nothing but grifters and parasites sucking up millions, and leaving scraps for the actual employees that work themselves to death for our entertainment.

And predatory, anti-consumer practices have only gotten worse. Micro-transactions have only gotten worse.

 

[TheVileOne]

You continue talking past me. You can hate investors as much as you want. You can hold them in contempt as much as you want. None of this will change the simple fact that if you want to do AAA-scale game development, *you need their money*, because AAA game development is expensive. Without that kind of financial backing, *the kind of backing that comes with strings*, you simply are incapable of even starting whatever dream game you imagine making. And if your pitch to would-be investors is "Pay me X million now for developing a studio, and then if we eventually release you get 2X million in payout and then I boot you out the door", you will get your ass laughed at and they will take their money elsewhere.

Maybe we need less AAA-scale game development.

 

[Iceman]

Depending on this game to continue your funding is probably not a great idea.

Their model was always potentially subject to considerable fluctuations having such a low game output. Every game is crucial not just in terms of the profit it makes or doesn’t make by itself, but the state it leaves the reputation of the company for future games. They’ve gone from possibly the best regarded dev in the business after Witcher 3 and word of mouth about all their pro-consumer moves, to one of the lower ranked ones over the course of one game (Cyperpunk not meeting expectations/promises and not working along with information unearthed about their workplace practises).

 

[Gothamsknight]

It's pretty insane how far CDPRs reputation has fallen since December. It is slightly amusing watching the same people who trashed companies like Bethesda or EA, like the guy who tweeted that article Sithborg posted, now start trashing CDPR after labelling them as the "savior" of the industry. They hyped up CDPR so hard, and even gave the game great reviews until the console versions released.

But anyway, It clearly went to CDPR's head too, considering they believed it would all work out because they made the Witcher 3. I wish Cyberpunk had met expectations, and even though I enjoyed the game, the outcome and backlash didn't surprise me. They spent all that money on marketing because they were so confident in themselves, and the game was so far from completion. Plus, tons of the features promised weren't even gonna be in there.

 

[OutOfBoose]

It feels like Larian has a chance to take CDPR's place as the most promising dev. and paragon of western RPG. Baldur's Gate III looks and plays wonderfully. I absolutely can't wait for the full game. And it's genuine RPG. No ifs and buts.

As for CDPR... There were no good news for them for the past 6 months. Scandals, departure of devs, massive hacker attack, crashed stocks, PS version is deleted from PS store, MASSIVE blow to their reputation overall and it looks like there are more legal battles ahead... And in response we had only a few regular patches and a new director of CP77. I don't think it will kill the studio (they survived worse), but it will be a long and hard road out of hell for them.

I'm hoping with a new lead and decent amount of time, they will be able to stuff Night City with more life than what we got in December. Even if, for the most part, the ship has already sailed.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

It feels like Larian has a chance to take CDPR's place as the most promising dev. and paragon of western RPG. Baldur's Gate III looks and plays wonderfully. I absolutely can't wait for the full game. And it's genuine RPG. No ifs and buts.

As for CDPR... There were no good news for them for the past 6 months. Scandals, departure of devs, massive hacker attack, crashed stocks, PS version is deleted from PS store, MASSIVE blow to their reputation overall and it looks like there are more legal battles ahead... And in response we had only a few regular patches and a new director of CP77. I don't think it will kill the studio (they survived worse), but it will be a long and hard road out of hell for them.

I'm hoping with a new lead and decent amount of time, they will be able to stuff Night City with more life than what we got in December. Even if, for the most part, the ship has already sailed.

If they want to earn the people's goodwill they should remake The Witcher 1 and remaster The Witcher 2 and 3 for their version of a Legendary Edition like Mass Effect.

 

[OutOfBoose]

If they want to earn the people's goodwill they should remake The Witcher 1 and remaster The Witcher 2 and 3 for their version of a Legendary Edition like Mass Effect.

I'd rather have them focus on engoodening of Cyberpunk 2077. They seem to be hiring new people for CP77. Though I'm all for the remake of the first Witcher.

Also, there's a remaster of W3 is in the making. They could remaster W2 as well, tbh.