CD Projeckt Red Cyberpunk 2077

[DarthSkywalker]

There’s definitely greater immersion with first person.

Is there?

 

[OutOfBoose]

Is there?

I think there is. FPP allows greater immersion because you embody the character and see through his/her eyes.

To me it was very obvious with Metroid series. Earlier games were 2D platformers and Metroid Prime became a FPP platformer. Seeing how raindrops slide on your helmet's visor or seeing reflection of your character's face on the visor makes you feel that there's almost nothing between you and the hostile alien environment except for the space suit. This feeling is impossible to achieve in isometric or TPP. I'm not talking about atmosphere or visuals, but how we perceive these things depending on games "cinematography".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think there is. FPP allows greater immersion because you embody the character and see through his/her eyes.

To me it was very obvious with Metroid series. Earlier games were 2D platformers and Metroid Prime became a FPP platformer. Seeing how raindrops slide on your helmet's visor or seeing reflection of your character's face on the visor makes you feel that there's almost nothing between you and the hostile alien environment except for the space suit. This feeling is impossible to achieve in isometric or TPP. I'm not talking about atmosphere or visuals, but how we perceive these things depending on games "cinematography".

I can't think of any games more immersive then the Witcher 3, Bloodborne, God of War and The Last of Us. I actually find the way you play an FPS game, makes it less immersive. More clearly a game because of the limitations on sight and movement. And then of course, the question of character. In a game where you are creating a character, you want to be able to see them.

 

[Texas Zombie]

The original Halo trilogy campaign was probably about as enveloped as I ever was in a game.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The original Halo trilogy campaign was probably about as enveloped as I ever was in a game.

Bioshock Infinite, original Halo and I guess Half-Life 2. But only the first one of those had actual character. I am no fan of silent protagonist.

 

[Kuwolski]

The controversy is a joke. More self-entitled internet peeps who create controversy when things don't turn out how they want it. At least play the game first, sheesh.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The controversy is a joke. More self-entitled internet peeps who create controversy when things don't turn out how they want it. At least play the game first, sheesh.

At least pay 60 bucks to complain first.

 

[Kuwolski]

At least pay 60 bucks to complain first.

If the game is great it will speak for itself and the developers will have done their job. Complaining has become a professional hobby for the uninitiated.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If the game is great it will speak for itself and the developers will have done their job. Complaining has become a professional hobby for the uninitiated.

That isn't what you said. You said people should play the game first before they can complain about it. Which basically means, they should play 60 bucks to complain? That seems reasonable?

 

[Kuwolski]

That isn't what you said. You said people should play the game first before they can complain about it. That seems responsible?

I don't know about responsible, but it would certainly let them experience the creative choices the developers made and give their complaints more legitimacy. I'm not the biggest first person fan either, but going off CDPR's comments it's a choice they strongly believe will maximize the games effectiveness, so I'll trust in the company's track record. The fact that people have created a controversy to the degree that developers have to respond to this online 'backlash' is a big joke to me.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I can't think of any games more immersive then the Witcher 3, Bloodborne, God of War and The Last of Us.

There's nothing strange in being absorbed by a great game. Still, character POV allows to experience it on more personal level. That's why I understand under immersion.

I actually find the way you play an FPS game, makes it less immersive. More clearly a game because of the limitations on sight and movement. And then of course, the question of character. In a game where you are creating a character, you want to be able to see them.

Sure, FPP isn't an ultimate solution and precisely because of technical limitations doesn't fit in all situations. Omaha Beach landing would feel much better with FPP, while The Witcher 3 with TPP because of specifics of storytelling, combat and environments. I don't know what works better for Cyberpunk, it's CDPR's decision. In Cyberpunk you can still see your character a lot. Just not constantly.

To sum things up, sometimes choice of perspective is dictated by artistic merits, sometimes by technical, sometimes by both.

 

[Spider-jedi]

i think its just a vocal minority. everybody has expectation and for some it wasn't met. The first leaks for the game mention been able to switch from third person to first person at will. They must have scrapped that idea some time ago.

FP is not more immersive for me but it is for others. it feels like my controlling my eyes with my thumbs and it just feels weird for me. ive never been able to enjoy a FP game. but anyway that why people make youtube play troughs ill just watch those

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It is not a vocal minority. It is a big part of their fanbase.

There's nothing strange in being absorbed by a great game. Still, character POV allows to experience it on more personal level. That's why I understand under immersion.
Sure, FPP isn't an ultimate solution and precisely because of technical limitations doesn't fit in all situations. Omaha Beach landing would feel much better with FPP, while The Witcher 3 with TPP because of specifics of storytelling, combat and environments. I don't know what works better for Cyberpunk, it's CDPR's decision. In Cyberpunk you can still see your character a lot. Just not constantly.

To sum things up, sometimes choice of perspective is dictated by artistic merits, sometimes by technical, sometimes by both.

More personal then The Last of Us? That is the thing. I don't think it makes anymore more personal, especially when I consider I just finished God of War a month ago, and it was one of the most engrossing and personal games I have ever played. And this is why talking and cutscenes for Cyberpunk won't be in first person.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

[YT]h2ayTlkVTgg[/YT]

 

[OutOfBoose]

More personal then The Last of Us? That is the thing. I don't think it makes anymore more personal, especially when I consider I just finished God of War a month ago, and it was one of the most engrossing and personal games I have ever played. And this is why talking and cutscenes for Cyberpunk won't be in first person.

You're talking about empathy for someone you observe or control from TPP. I'm talking about inhabiting experience. How to make you experience what the character sees? FPP allows additional detail, that impossible to deliver with other perspectives, thus increasing immersion. Immersion isn't always the goal, though. Application can be purely practical.

I haven't seen Cyberpunk yet, but FPP seems to be dictated by technical and gameplay aspects. Like, for example, HUD upgrades.

 

[OutOfBoose]

CDPR argument why they've chosen FPP (around 2 minutes):

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're talking about empathy for someone you observe or control from TPP. I'm talking about inhabiting experience. How to make you experience what the character sees? FPP allows additional detail, that impossible to deliver with other perspectives, thus increasing immersion. Immersion isn't always the goal, though. Application can be purely practical.

I haven't seen Cyberpunk yet, but FPP seems to be dictated by technical and gameplay aspects. Like, for example, HUD upgrades.

Like what? Holding a gun at a ridiculous angle? An in ability for realistic melee combat? Weird forearms at an impossible height? Also the existence of HUDs in FPS is a very good example of breaking immersion. Even when you are a techno beast.

I am talking about being immersed in the world, the story, the characters. When I play an FPS it is very rare for me to forget it is a game. Bioshock Infinite might be the only example I can think of. This happened constantly throughout games like The Last of Us and God of War. Their own Witcher 2 and 3.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Well, apparently I'm not alone in considering FPP having it's advantages when it comes to experience, based on the video above. There's also Angry Joe interview with Pondsmith and one of CDPR guys, they also talk their reasoning for FPP.

Also, I'm not surprised why The Last of Us is ranked so high by critics and fans alike, but God of War felt dull as hell. Writing and storytelling are nowhere as good as in The Last of Us.

 

[Marvolo]

Like what? Holding a gun at a ridiculous angle? An in ability for realistic melee combat? Weird forearms at an impossible height? Also the existence of HUDs in FPS is a very good example of breaking immersion. Even when you are a techno beast.

I am talking about being immersed in the world, the story, the characters. When I play an FPS it is very rare for me to forget it is a game. Bioshock Infinite might be the only example I can think of. This happened constantly throughout games like The Last of Us and God of War. Their own Witcher 2 and 3.

Yep. Just compare the sword fighting and fisticuffs in Witcher 3 with the sword fighting and fisticuffs in Elder Scrolls.

 

[Kuwolski]

The developers actually mentioned Witcher 3 as a point of contrast for the decision the took for this game.

 

[Texas Zombie]

With this game, I expect to get something different that I didn’t know I needed in my life.

 

[Marvolo]

The developers actually mentioned Witcher 3 as a point of contrast for the decision the took for this game.

That's one of my concerns. That they looked at what they did in Witcher 3 and just set out to do the opposite in an attempt to be different and not because it was the best way to do it.

 

[Kuwolski]

Possibly, but the unique difference in gameplay between the two makes the choices appear more substantial and organic.

 

[Elayis]

It might just be for variety, that they got bored with doing third person after so many years. Can't really fault them for that.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Another argument from CDPR on the forum:

Cyberpunk is not a FPS. It's not a shooter with RPG mechanics either.

Cyberpunk is a role-playing game with attributes, skills, perks, items and choices with consequences. First person perspective is a tool we decided to use for narrative reasons.

Mike Pondsmith:

One thing that was surprising to see was that the game is a first-person experience, which is a big change from CD Projekt Red's last games. Do you feel the change to first-person was a necessary thing for Cyberpunk?

This is where I put my designer hat on, and I get to put on both my table and my video game designer hat, both. This is why it's important. The one thing is the state of the character, the interfaces they use, the drugs they take, the way they deal with their implants--it's all very, very internal to the head of the character, and if you step out of that out [into a third-person view] it becomes a busy hub that you're tracking. On another technical level, the world is massively immersive and if you're stepped back from that into a third person avatar dummy, you are not really part a part of it.

I'll give you an example. I went and walked over at one point to another character's car and as I was walking, somebody that I never actually saw in the crowd, makes a comment and they're talking about some problem they're having with their girlfriend, and it was peripheral, it was in my hearing. I didn't see the person and I really was interested in this story that was going on. I wanted to know more about this. My belief is that third person, has a lot of good places. In this particular case, I think first-person was best because it could provide more than just the immersion, it could provide the tools for you to perceive the world and make decisions that were proper within that world. If I have 360 view, I see everything and I know where the bad guys are coming from all the time, it is kind of a shooter where we're setting up the targets.

If I am immersed in it, then I'm having to take split second decisions that feel real because in real life, you don't know what those guys, 300 feet away are doing. If one pulls out a gun, you have to make a decision. You. That's important if you're going to be immersed in a world and particularly when you're dealing with a game that is so heavily role playing driven as this game is.