Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread

[Saitou Hajime]

Does anybody kinda wish they would go with a slightly lighter tone? Don't get me wrong, I love the Miller and Bendis runs of the character as they both helped cement Daredevil as one of my top favorite superheroes ever, but Waid's run is amazing as well. It's honestly probably my favorite, er, tied with Millers to be completely honest.

When it gets down to it, if its done well I wont care if it's dark and gritty or lighter and more positive. I'm just a little annoyed at the trend of everything (not just comic book related) needing to be dark. It's been going on forever. I forget how fun it is to read lighter stuff until I read it. But like I said, give a me a good show and it can be as light or dark as it wants.

Kesel and Kelly's runs in the 90s were some of the best in the franchise, and they were light-hearted but mature in tone.

 

[flickchick85]

DD would have to be more like Arrow in tone and look I think. I want it similar to Law and Order as well. Definitely don't want it to look like AOS.

I hope it doesn't look like Arrow. Arrow looks just as cheap as AoS, if not cheaper, to me.

 

[gohei_]

I love Arrow, but I hope DD is a little different from it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I hope it doesn't look like Arrow. Arrow looks just as cheap as AoS, if not cheaper, to me.

It IS a show, so it is bound to look cheaper than a MCU film or something like that. SFX on a TV budget don't come cheap.

 

[fixxxer]

When it comes to production design and cinematography, shows like Game Of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire, House Of Cards, Mad Men, True Detective, etc. are about as "cinematic" as it gets... in any medium. Agents of SHIELD and Arrow are not near that level.

I don't expect Daredevil or any of the Netflix shows to look like, say, True Detective, but split the difference between something like that and AOS/Arrow, and I'll be satisfied.

 

[Mr. Dent]

I honestly expect this to look just as good as those shows. There's no reason not to believe it.

 

[747]

House of Cards has a fantastically well executed look, and it is a Netflix Original Series just like Daredevil will be. So there's nothing saying it can't reach that level

 

[Gr0oT]

I hope it doesn't look like Arrow. Arrow looks just as cheap as AoS, if not cheaper, to me.

I haven't given Arrow a fair shake, sat through about 3 episodes and just couldn't abide by the bad soap opera levels of acting.

That's certainly something I wouldn't want to see in the Daredevil show so I do have my hopes up for a solid cast.

So far as the look of the show I've got faith in Drew Goddard. One of the reasons AoS looks like crap is that it has awful directing. Goddard just had 30 million to work with and he made a nice looking picture in Cabin in the Woods.

 

[747]

It's a lot about getting the right people – with the right talent and vision. It's not all about the budget. Being in a good context/place also helps.

 

[Gr0oT]

It's about being in a good home and getting the right people – with the right talent and vision. It's not all about the budget.

That's quite true.
Just think, the pilot of Agents of SHIELD cost $14 million dollars!

No clue what the consecutive episodes cost but the pilot looks the same as most of the rest.

Now compare that with the average Game of Thrones show that cost half as much.

It's clear that money doesn't help when the talent and vision isn't there.

 

[Marvel Spider]

That's quite true.
Just think, the pilot of Agents of SHIELD cost $14 million dollars!

No clue what the consecutive episodes cost but the pilot looks the same as most of the rest.

Now compare that with the average Game of Thrones show that cost half as much.

It's clear that money doesn't help when the talent and vision isn't there.

You're saying Joss lacks talent and vision? He did direct the pilot.

But yeah, I'm hoping these shows look aesthetically fantastic. And there's no reason they shouldn't.

 

[Six]

Honestly, why I do like AoS to took me a while to warm up to(and I still have my critiques) and I hope the Netflix shows are nothing like it, or Arrow. If they're going to learn anything from Arrow, it should be that they shouldn't be afraid to go with the costumes from the comics(Deathstroke looks great). For this, they're probably not going to give Bullseye the skintight spandex outfit, but as long as they keep the black and white colour scheme and give him a mask of some sort with the bullseye sign on it I'll be happy.

So while AoS is miles better in the writing and acting department than Arrow IMO, it lacks the creativity. But overall, I'd like this show to look more cinematic, like an HBO show or the other Netflix originals. Everything else looks cheap in comparison.

 

[Dark Raven]

Honestly, why I do like AoS to took me a while to warm up to(and I still have my critiques) and I hope the Netflix shows are nothing like it, or Arrow. If they're going to learn anything from Arrow, it should be that they shouldn't be afraid to go with the costumes from the comics(Deathstroke looks great). For this, they're probably not going to give Bullseye the skintight spandex outfit, but as long as they keep the black and white colour scheme and give him a mask of some sort with the bullseye sign on it I'll be happy.

So while AoS is miles better in the writing and acting department than Arrow IMO, it lacks the creativity. But overall, I'd like this show to look more cinematic, like an HBO show or the other Netflix originals. Everything else looks cheap in comparison.

I would disagree. If AOS could be as good as Arrow, I'd be happy. How much of Arrow have you watched?

 

[Six]

All of Season 1 and a few episodes of Season 2, and then I gave up. The cheesiness I can handle to a certain extent, but the love triangles are too much. I also can't stand Laurel. While I can sense some tension between Ward and Coulson coming along, its not as intolerable as Arrow. I thought maybe once whats his face was killed in the finale the love triangles would stop, but no.

The only way I'd start watching the show again is if Laurel died and Oliver became a eunich ala theon greyjoy

 

[flickchick85]

It IS a show, so it is bound to look cheaper than a MCU film or something like that. SFX on a TV budget don't come cheap.

I know, but the production values of the other Netflix shows suggest to me that they can at least do better than the look of Arrow.

For the record, I've seen every single episode of Arrow and AoS, and I much prefer AoS, but I think this show can and should be able to do better (both with visuals and with writing) than both shows.

 

[Gr0oT]

You're saying Joss lacks talent and vision? He did direct the pilot.

But yeah, I'm hoping these shows look aesthetically fantastic. And there's no reason they shouldn't.

He obviously phoned it in since they just wanted to attach his name for credibility anyways, and from then on his less talented brother has been involved and some other person.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I know, but the production values of the other Netflix shows suggest to me that they can at least do better than the look of Arrow.

For the record, I've seen every single episode of Arrow and AoS, and I much prefer AoS, but I think this show can and should be able to do better (both with visuals and with writing) than both shows.

Something like House of Cards doesn't have the complex effects work required for Daredevil. Daredevil won't look as sharp as House of Cards, etc. Other shows tossed around, Game of Thrones, etc also had more money invested than this likely will have invested, and in the case of Game of Thrones, 90% of the budget goes to art direction. The actual CG of the show is meh (the dragons look pretty fake). It's just not realistic to expect it to look like proven shows, since DD likely won't have that investment in the beginning. At best, it might look as good as Blade the Series visually, and that had a high budget relative for television.

 

[Crockett]

At any rate, I really don't want Daredevil to be riddled with VFX, for an example I don't want a CG Daredevil doing acrobats, jumping from rooftops etc. like the '03 movie when they could accomplished quite closely by practical means, and if the CG looks eh, I could easily overlook it as long as the writing and acting is excellent.

 

[flickchick85]

Something like House of Cards doesn't have the complex effects work required for Daredevil. Daredevil won't look as sharp as House of Cards, etc. Other shows tossed around, Game of Thrones, etc also had more money invested than this likely will have invested, and in the case of Game of Thrones, 90% of the budget goes to art direction. The actual CG of the show is meh (the dragons look pretty fake). It's just not realistic to expect it to look like proven shows, since DD likely won't have that investment in the beginning. At best, it might look as good as Blade the Series visually, and that had a high budget relative for television.

IMO, DD shouldn't doesn't need a lot of CGI fx, just a lot of practical ones. It should mostly be an action show with real people doing stunts, with the occasional CG-heavy shot thrown in every now and then. Arrow and AoS would be examples of how that can be underwhelming (though AoS has more VFX that their budget has to be allocated to), but I think something like Strike Back has great production values for the cost ($3M per episode). It just looks so much more cinematic than the other two. If DD can go for something at that level of production value, it'll be a great start.

I just don't see a Netflix show looking like a regular network show (especially not a smaller network like CW). If they could spend $100M on the 1st season of House of Cards, they can at least spend $50-70M on DD (especially with Marvel/Disney backing), and that would still put it at a much higher episode-to-episode budget ratio than AoS or Arrow, since it won't be working on a pilot-to-series model, where they spend a bunch of money on a pilot and then order 12 subsequent cheaper episodes, then 9 more. DD, like all the Netflix shows, will basically be produced like one 13-hour movie. Which, if it does get a $50M+ budget, puts it more in the league of Game of Thrones and other premium cable shows, almost all of which look more cinematic than Arrow or AoS.

And I think the dragons on GoT look great.

 

[seahammer]

IMO, DD shouldn't doesn't need a lot of CGI fx, just a lot of practical ones. It should mostly be an action show with real people doing stunts, with the occasional CG-heavy shot thrown in every now and then. Arrow and AoS would be examples of how that can be underwhelming (though AoS has more VFX that their budget has to be allocated to), but I think something like Strike Back has great production values for the cost ($3M per episode). It just looks so much more cinematic than the other two. If DD can go for something at that level of production value, it'll be a great start.

I just don't see a Netflix show looking like a regular network show (especially not a smaller network like CW). If they could spend $100M on a season of House of Cards, they can at least spend $50-70M on DD (especially with Marvel/Disney backing), and that would still put it at a much higher episode-to-episode budget ratio than AoS or Arrow, since it won't be working on a pilot-to-series model, where they spend a bunch of money on a pilot and then order 12 subsequent cheaper episodes, then 9 more. DD, like all the Netflix shows, will basically be produced like one 13-hour movie. Which, if it does get a $50M+ budget, puts it more in the league of Game of Thrones and other premium cable shows, almost all of which look more cinematic than Arrow or AoS.

And I think the dragons on GoT look great.

Great post!

 

[Dark Raven]

I want a Daredevil theme tune. Stop giving us cold openings.

 

[gohei_]

I want a Daredevil theme tune. Stop giving us cold openings.

Exactly. Marvel better get Evanescense on the phone t:

 

[Dark Raven]

Exactly. Marvel better get Evanescense on the phone t:

Well not them. But some cartoons even have better theme tunes than some movies or live-action series these days. I liked the Batman theme tune by the Edge. That had a late night TV series feel which would suit a Netflix show like DD. Also, there's no need to have all these commercials on Netflix so they don't need to squeeze out every minute of advertising time, thus cutting down the running length.

 

[Six]

I just watched all the episodes of true detective yesterday that have been released and that show has a great opening

 

[flickchick85]

I just watched all the episodes of true detective yesterday that have been released and that show has a great opening

That show has a great everything.

Great post!

Thanks.