Dark X-Men

[TheCorpulent1]

Physically. None of that telepathic nonsense for Logan's li'l Jimmy Howlett.

 

[Manic]

awesome, then emma admits to cheating on scott with wolverine.

She ain't gotta lie. Namor's got a raincheck on that ass.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ha, even better. Cyclops could knock Wolverine around for stealing his woman, but Namor? He'd take whatever Scott can throw at him and laugh.

 

[El Bastardo]

It's too bad that assassination gets such a bad reputation, really. It's such a handy tool.

 

[Galact-Gal]

I like Cyclops more now than before, and I was a huge Cyclops fan. He is a dick now, but compare that to how he was for all the years before that. Everybody was walking all over Cyclops before, you even had the kids telling Cyke to basically f-off. Scott is now clearly in control and Emma has taken a back seat, it was the opposite before, Emma was basically calling all the shots, while Scott wasnt getting the respect he deserved.

I dont really see anything wrong with Cykes new attitude. Basically Cyke would be for torture(water-boarding), and I see nothing wrong with that.

Cyke has already committed torture on a member of the Hellfire Cult that the X-Men captured. Some fans have pointed out the story can be read as Scott not physically harming the prisoner, but just torturing him psychologically. I agree that that's possible; but psychological torture is still torture! And you know what the best part is? Scott didn't need to do it. Emma was right outside of the room in which the prisoner was being 'interrogated'. Y'know, Emma, telepath, capable of reading people's minds and finding what information the X-Men might need.

In case anybody's in doubt, I really dislike what Scott's been turned into.

 

[Manic]

Cyke has already committed torture on a member of the Hellfire Cult that the X-Men captured. Some fans have pointed out the story can be read as Scott not physically harming the prisoner, but just torturing him psychologically. I agree that that's possible; but psychological torture is still torture! And you know what the best part is? Scott didn't need to do it. Emma was right outside of the room in which the prisoner was being 'interrogated'. Y'know, Emma, telepath, capable of reading people's minds and finding what information the X-Men might need.

In case anybody's in doubt, I really dislike what Scott's been turned into.

Not only that, but Karma was in the room. Karma even read his mind to see that he was afraid of needles before beginning the torture. When you've got multiple mind readers on your team, there is no excuse for using "enhanced interrogation" techniques beyond your own underlying sadism.

 

[Anubis]

Eh, f**k that guy. That's like torturing nazis. It's okay. Nobody really cares.

 

[Manic]

If we were talking about HYDRA agents or ninjas, I'd agree. But the Hellfire Cult members just strike me as so... pathetic. They're a group of partially mind controlled people, and quite frankly, they're my fellow Yay Area folk.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't see the rationale for excusing torture or murder against HYDRA agents or Hellfire Cult members. They're still people. Hand ninjas, sure, they're like conjured spirits that explode in puffs of smoke if you 'kill' them, but heroes got along just fine without cutting bloody swaths through the HYDRA and Hellfire ranks for many, many years.

But I seem to be the only person who's not okay with every hero killing everything in sight lately, so whatever.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I don't see the rationale for excusing torture or murder against HYDRA agents or Hellfire Cult members. They're still people. Hand ninjas, sure, they're like conjured spirits that explode in puffs of smoke if you 'kill' them, but heroes got along just fine without cutting bloody swaths through the HYDRA and Hellfire ranks for many, many years.

But I seem to be the only person who's not okay with every hero killing everything in sight lately, so whatever.

You're not.

 

[Manic]

HYDRA agents openly go into every battle like it's a suicide mission, constantly shouting how you can kill them and two more will take their place. I'm supposed to be upset when superheroes kill them?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No, of course not. While we're at it, superheroes should give people standing on the ledge of a building contemplating suicide that extra little nudge that gets 'em going. Indecision is the enemy of progress, after all!

 

[Manic]

So you're saying there's no difference between a soldier on a suicide mission and a person standing on a ledge? Really?

 

[moraldeficiency]

How are you defining a superhero then, if they can kill without any real authority or right aren't they just self imposing their judgements on others the same way hydra is trying? Where's the difference? To me heroes should be heroic, capping asses is badass and all, but not heroic.

 

[Manic]

Fine. Then I'll strike Iron Fist from my list of superheroes. Is there anyone else who kills HYDRA agents that I'm not aware of?


By the way, don't bother bringing up Punisher. I've never considered him a superhero. And Wolverine is a thug and an assassin, always has been.

 

[Brainiac 8]

I so hope Xavier gives Scott a good earful after all that bulls*** about how Xavier used the X-Men and how his dream failed in X-Men Legacy. To find out that this is how Scott is carrying on his legacy? Yeah, no wonder the dream failed, *****e; it's because you, once its most stalwart supporter, are now sanctioning assassin teams to murder your enemies in cold blood.

Actually, after reading (and loving) X-Men Legacy, I really hope that Xavier shows that just like him, Scott has done his fair share of horrible calls...and in some cases (X-Force) worse calls than Xavier ever made.

I also hope Scott realizes that some of the horrible things Xavier did was mis-understandings, and not actual horrible things. (like Danger)

 

[moraldeficiency]

Fine. Then I'll strike Iron Fist from my list of superheroes. Is there anyone else who kills HYDRA agents that I'm not aware of?

By the way, don't bother bringing up Punisher. I've never considered him a superhero. And Wolverine is a thug and an assassin, always has been.

To be fair, Iron Fist is fighting for his life in those situations. He's not spider-man dodging bullets or luke cage laughing them off. Iron Fist I would say is more of a warrior than a hero. I'm not saying a hero would never kill someone else, but the easy attitude you have on the matter seemed punisheresque to me (I said it).

 

[Manic]

To be fair, Iron Fist is fighting for his life in those situations. He's not spider-man dodging bullets or luke cage laughing them off. Iron Fist I would say is more of a warrior than a hero. I'm not saying a hero would never kill someone else, but the easy attitude you have on the matter seemed punisheresque to me (I said it).

Punisheresque? I just got finished complaining about Cyclops torturing a guy!

 

[moraldeficiency]

But you'd be cool with him wiping out wave after wave of hydra agents?

 

[Brainiac 8]

Thing is that I'm not against heroes killing, and if it makes sense, a hero deciding it's time to kill when originally they didn't agree with it.

I honestly have been ok with most of Scott's calls...you just have to think about where he is now. He had a no kill rule, just like Xavier, but what happened under his tenure as a non killer? Stryker came back, and slaughter several dozen kids, all under Scott's care. Scarlet Witch went crazy and decimated the majority of the mutants, leaving Scott as the sole protector of the last of his race of people. Wolverine is mind controlled and murders Northstar. A mutant girl is born, and as soon as she is, the purifiers burn a town to the ground to kill the baby, as well as Bishop attempting to do the same thing, which results in Xavier getting shot in the head. They create creatures that eat mutants, and torture one of his teenage students so that her skin will bond to these monsters.

I think Scott is truly justified in his new attitude that some people just need some killin.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Because turning into the exact thing all those antimutant crazies have been warning humans of forever is the best way to keep mutants safe? I'm sure nothing will go wrong with this idea.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Yes, I think he's gone a bit extreme with it, which I hope they fix...but I don't think he's completely in the wrong here. With all those kids shot/stabbed/blown up, I'm guessing he isn't going to let that happen again, and if a few goons need to be put in line the hard way to do it, then so be it.

 

[moraldeficiency]

While I agree he's not completely (just mostly) in the wrong, he's just become the poster boy for why we should fear and destroy all mutants. It's like he's going out of his way to help fund new sentinel programs and such. It says a lot when the upcoming arc has norman osborn as the actual good guy in the conflict.

 

[Manic]

But you'd be cool with him wiping out wave after wave of hydra agents?

Yes, because agents of HYDRA are expendable little bastards whose motto pretty much dares you to kill them. HYDRA agents, Hand ninja, Nazis, armies of robots, and aliens that look & act like monsters don't count. Why? Because they're all monsters to me, and nobody cares when superheroes kill monsters. They're generic cannon fodder.

 

[moraldeficiency]

But their still normal human soldiers right? You equate them at the same level as robots? If so I'm assuming torture them is perfectly fine right?