DC's Definitive Joker origin

[Ibn]

Huh? Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder is entirely different from what the Joker is. PTSD does not turn human beings into full-blown murderous psycopaths with motivations like the Joker's.

Furthermore, it is held throughout the Joker's mythos that he is an undiagnosable, incomprehensible being far beyond the reach of psychiatric understanding. He does not fit the mode of the standard serial killer or madman. He is something other. That's one of the great aspects of his character. Therefore, giving him a cause as mundane as tragedy just doesn't seem to cut it.

It didn't wor for Hannibal Lecter in HANNIBAL RISING, either.

I think that giving him a cause as mundane as being a bank robber (that's a new one) and hitman (that's a new one) falls way short of doing the character justice. So he's just another non creative, uninteresting mook bank robber before he turns into the most psychopathic genius the world has ever seen. The tragedy of the character in the Killing Joke just made him more like Batman, which is cooler to me than him being a completely anonymous character. It's not like if TKJ was his origin he wouldn't be incomprehesible or undiagnosable.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

The tragedy of the character in the Killing Joke just made him more like Batman, which is cooler to me than him being a completely anonymous character.

I've never really seen it that way.

Bruce Wayne came from a good home, with loving parents who gave to charity. He probably would've been an agent for good in Gotham no matter what happened to him. But, when his parents were killed the way in which he chose to act toward that end changed. He became Batman and took things to a new level.

In this Confidential story, the Joker seems to be running on a parallel track in the opposite direction. He's an evil person and when he goes for the chemical swim, he'll take his already bad actions to a new level.

The Killing Joke seems like it's more like a flipside to a Green Arrow-style origin. Ollie was kind of prick, learned about himself while he was marooned, and became an agent for good. The Joker in Killing Joke was pretty much an average family guy, had his accident and became a monster. The two origins share that 180 degree change in purpose.

I prefer the idea that the Joker was always evil. It just makes more sense to me.

 

[Mr. Socko]

^Completely agree.

The one definite pre-Joker thing was written back in the 50s. All it showed was that Jack(unnamed then, I'm just using jack) went to a chemical factory with the intent to rob them(which more or less proves he was bad), Batman stopped him and he fell into the chemicals and became the Joker. That is the only thing that is completely certain about Joker.

In TKJ, Joker is a family man, who wants to be a comedian, and makes a wrong mistake to don the Red Hood getup. It sorta makes him a tragic character.

In Confidential, I presume(haven't read it yet) that Jack is very much like Nicholson's pre-Joker days. He's a gangster, already a bad guy who robs the chemical factory thus leading to the chemical bath and Joker is born. Alex Ross put it best when he said it makes much more sense that Joker is a gangster who's already bad as opposed to a normal man who goes completely mental and homicidal because of the bleaching.

My personal favorite is the TAS origin. Jack is a comedian who can't make it or pay the bills, so by night he joins the mob and serves as their hitman.

 

[Mr. LOL]

Jack in Confidential isn't close to the bad guy stature of Jack in B89. He's just a talented bank robber, with a prime skill, and it looks as though he is being used by the mob or some gang. It is also kind of hinted that he was kind of geeked into it by others. He is however yearning for something else.

 

[Rockbottom]

"My personal favorite is the TAS origin. Jack is a comedian who can't make it or pay the bills, so by night he joins the mob and serves as their hitman."

Huh? I've never seen or heard of this origin, as far as TAS goes he was just a hitman for the mob in MOTP, and thats all we know...

 

[Mr. Socko]

Jack in Confidential isn't close to the bad guy stature of Jack in B89. He's just a talented bank robber, with a prime skill, and it looks as though he is being used by the mob or some gang. It is also kind of hinted that he was kind of geeked into it by others. He is however yearning for something else.

Oh ok thanks.

"My personal favorite is the TAS origin. Jack is a comedian who can't make it or pay the bills, so by night he joins the mob and serves as their hitman."

Huh? I've never seen or heard of this origin, as far as TAS goes he was just a hitman for the mob in MOTP, and thats all we know...

In MotP he's in the mob however there is an episode from the show(can't think of the name) that shows Joker's backstory in black and white and he's trying to get a gig being a comedian at a club but it doesn't work out and he gets pretty hot tempered. So I always assumed the two fit together.

 

[Joker]

Oh ok thanks.




In MotP he's in the mob however there is an episode from the show(can't think of the name) that shows Joker's backstory in black and white and he's trying to get a gig being a comedian at a club but it doesn't work out and he gets pretty hot tempered. So I always assumed the two fit together.

I dont remember that at all...are you sure you're not getting an ep of the animated series confused with The Killing Joke?

 

[The Joker]

I dont remember that at all...are you sure you're not getting an ep of the animated series confused with The Killing Joke?

I think he's thinking of the episode 'Make 'em laugh', where Joker tries to participate in the funniest man in Gotham awards dressed up as a normal person, but they kick him off the stage, and he's throwing a temper tantrum as he's being dragged off.

 

[BubbaGump]

In MotP he's in the mob however there is an episode from the show(can't think of the name) that shows Joker's backstory in black and white and he's trying to get a gig being a comedian at a club but it doesn't work out and he gets pretty hot tempered. So I always assumed the two fit together.

It wasn't a flashback, it was a B&W TV screen. It's from the episode Make 'Em Laugh. Joker tries to win a comedy contest (disguised), but loses. He seeks revenge on the judges a year later, but he was already the Joker.

 

[BubbaGump]

I think he's thinking of the episode 'Make 'em laugh', where Joker tries to participate in the funniest man in Gotham awards dressed up as a normal person, but they kick him off the stage, and he's throwing a temper tantrum as he's being dragged off.

You win.

 

[Rockbottom]

Whoa, ive never seen or heard of that episode before. Is there anywhere i can get a link to it please?

Thanks for the info too.

 

[BubbaGump]

Whoa, ive never seen or heard of that episode before. Is there anywhere i can get a link to it please?

Thanks for the info too.

You should be able to find the episode on torrent, but it's also on the DVD. Here's some more info on the episode itself.

http://anbat.toonzone.net/btas/mel.html

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/makeemlaugh/

 

[The Joker]

You win.

Yours is better because you included a pic

 

[BubbaGump]

Yours is better because you included a pic

*face lights up*

 

[Mr. Socko]

Oh ok, thanks guys. I got it confused, I was thinking it was a flashback. Haven't seen it in a while. Thanks again.

 

[Mladen]

This was the first confidential issue I picked up since I'd heard the others had been pretty bad thus far... anyway, The first Joker arc issue is great, definately recommended.
The take on pre-Joker is excellent. Jack is a strange humorless character who has lost interest in his work. He's not particularly vicious, just efficient, highly talented and a bit odd (others mentioned his strange quirks already, and they were all excellent touches to building the character). The comic reads really well except for one spread which was interrupted by an ad (I hate poor editing), and the final page is just perfect, definately enticing to read more.
I disagree with those who didn't like the artwork, it was nice balance of abstract and realistic. There was a bit of a Sienkiewicz influence in there, which is nice, and I'm sick to DEATH of the slick Jim-lee styled art everywhere in mainstream comics today (and since the 90s) so it was a welcome change to see somebody do something a bit more abstract, illustrative and create something more heartfelt and impulsive. Those who mentioned that the perspective and proportion are off are kind of missing the point.

 

[Motown Marvel]

second issue came out today. its another great issue. its lacking in progression of story, but the characters are really solid.

its a bit weird that

Spoiler

alfred seems to be some sort of tech genius by building the bat-computer...but i suppose someone had to do it, eh? and i guess theres no reason to believe that upon bruce taking up his mission that he didnt subject alfred to some training as well...combined with his vague military background thats been hinted at from time to time, i can deal with it.

but i loved "jacks" attitude towards batman.

 

[Joker]

My favorite part is that one of the crimes he did to piss off Batman was killing and skinning a panda...it's stuff like that which helps to show that while the guy is definietly already sick, the horrible crimes he's doing are still somewhat set in sanities realm. He's not randomly gunning down people, he's doing stuff that will make him money at the same time. But it shows that he's not that far away from totally losing it, which we know he's going to by the end of this arc.

I'm still wondering if we're gonna get any Red Hood action

 

[Motown Marvel]

i think involving the red hood is unavoidable. its been a staple of his origin for decades. surely the writer planned for as much.

 

[Mladen]

I always thought the red hood thing was a bit stupid and kind of irrelevent to the character. Working it in now would make no sense in the context of the story, and would only serve to please pedantic fanboys. I hope they stay away from it.

 

[Ibn]

Oh ok, thanks guys. I got it confused, I was thinking it was a flashback. Haven't seen it in a while. Thanks again.

I think that would have been the perfect amalgam though!

 

[Joker]

I always thought the red hood thing was a bit stupid and kind of irrelevent to the character. Working it in now would make no sense in the context of the story, and would only serve to please pedantic fanboys. I hope they stay away from it.

Actually it would fit. Batman wears a costume, so this guy wears one when he goes out too, it would be the start of his obsession, and the first of many parallels between Batman and The Joker

 

[Mladen]

Actually it would fit. Batman wears a costume, so this guy wears one when he goes out too, it would be the start of his obsession, and the first of many parallels between Batman and The Joker

Yeah I guess that makes sense, but the actual 'red hood' outfit would be pointless. He could be dressed as anything really (panda-skin )...

 

[Joker]

he needs to be Red Hood, otherwise Jason Todd coming back as Red Hood and then beating him half to death back in the Under The Hood arc no longer makes sense

 

[The Shredder]

Yes. The whole Red Hood persona definately needs to be worked into this story at some point. Which is expected by alot of fans. And I'm sure it's an issue that will be addressed.