DeSanto and Murphy off of Transformers 2?

[ShadowBoxing]

I think for the reasons I already stated. It was a sore topic. An otherwise great man lost an entire presidency over it.. with lower poll numbers than even George Bush has now. This despite the fact that he worked feverishly to help the f* up stuff that happened during the previous administration (OPEC sparked the energy crisis during Nixon).

And the Transformers was created under Reagan. The Autobots leader was modelled after John Wayne, and the show was ridiculed later on for insensitive portrayals of ethnic minorities. It's not this bastion of liberal values. Furthermore THEY NEVER TALKED ABOUT SCARCITY. Their energy was abundant, apparently so much so they could pipe it out of anywhere, no matter how illogical. In fact most of the time the things they used to make energon didn't really actually exist. The closest we came to an Autobot who cared about the Environment was Beachcomber, who starred in two episodes. They even ignored Skids who was in love with Earth.

I think some of ya'll need a history lesson to understand why Transformers- coming out when it did- was as interesting as it was.

I think you need to stop smoking the reefer when you watch Transformers. It was based on the formula of G.I.Joe for peet sake (literally they lifted the formula and said lets do the same thing with giant alien robots).

I can hook you up to an I.V. with water and suger and smattering of trace minerals for the rest of your life and you wouldn't be very happy with that. We can eat a bunch of different things on this planet... but we don't. It was pretty obvious from day one that Earth had everything they needed... and they went out of their way to stress that point.

This is the dumbest sh** I've ever read, sorry. You just won an award for that. The show was set on Earth because most stories are set on Earth because it gives us human characters we can relate to. It wasn't set on Earth because their vastly superior intellect led them to Earth in search of fuel. Yes, they could have and often did siphon it off of other planets, especially in the comics. And if you remember the third season they could be found at various points far and wide. Hell energon was currency throughout the Galaxy by season two (The Gambler).

So what? They were cars. The show also didn't state anything one way or the other. It's a stupid point.

Exactly, it didn't STATE THAT as it's premise. Again you're throwing your own unsupported spin on the show.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Well the crash landing on Earth was by chance they probably figured "hey while we are here we may as well plunder this planet since it has all this energy we need". It would have been a waste or resorces to build a ship to harvest energy from other planets if they were already on one. And don't say "but they had ships with Astotrain, Omega Supreme, and Cosmos.

Well yes, I can say that. The show was, as many say, illogical. They also were never picked up by NORAD or WOPR while they were raiding cities. We never saw the military or air force make an honest stand against them. The show wasn't logical. You're right part of the logic was "we crashed here and have no way back". But the other part was "look we really need an excuse to add human characters to this show".

 

[bluejake01]

yup.

The fact that they're machines and they thirst for oil is not only relevant it's perfectly logical.

Rarely in sci-fi inasion movies does oil play a part. But alien robots offered the perfect opportunity for a ripe socio-political allegory.

They didn't thirst for oil...ever...end of story. They used oil to make ENERGON, which is what they wanted. Energon came from many sources, most of them were NOT fossil fuels. Not ONCE did they EVER say, "We needs to get us some oil"

 

[ShadowBoxing]

They didn't thirst for oil...ever...end of story. They used oil to make ENERGON, which is what they wanted. Energon came from many sources, most of them were NOT fossil fuels. Not ONCE did they EVER say, "We needs to get us some oil"

Thank you....Jesus Christ...have these people ever seen Transformers.

 

[blind_fury]

They didn't need to do in every G1 episode.

And they don't need to it every 5 minutes during the movie. Just one oil rig attack scene would be fine for the entire trilogy.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

They didn't need to do in every G1 episode.

If something is thematically important or is part of a shows premise then it will play out in near every single, if not every single episode.

And they don't need to it every 5 minutes during the movie. Just one oil rig attack scene would be fine for the entire trilogy.

This movie isn't called "Lets show that scene from the one episode Blind_Fury once saw" it's called "Transformers". And they've had over 20 years of episodes, merchandise, and comics...and only that one episode fighting over an oil rig.

 

[bluejake01]

There were certainly examples of how thirsting for power and abusing natural resources is evil. I don't think it was the basis of the series, nor do I think it was decided at some meeting by the writers that they were going to push some hippie agenda like CFlash has suggested. Perhaps there were some of the writer's personal politics seeping in to an episode here and there, but again, it wasn't the premise, or the purpose of the series. The themes dealing with power lust are present in the new film. We see the Decepticons wanting power...ultimate power, and the Autobots are fighting to defend the innocents that are caught in the crossfire of the war, as well as to stop the "evil" warmongers.

 

[Avangarde]

Well yes, I can say that. The show was, as many say, illogical. They also were never picked up by NORAD or WOPR while they were raiding cities. We never saw the military or air force make an honest stand against them. The show wasn't logical. You're right part of the logic was "we crashed here and have no way back". But the other part was "look we really need an excuse to add human characters to this show".

I agree with you there, however the show's focus was on the bots not the human element. Every transformer had a different personallity, therefore the viewers had something to relate to, the humans were not put in there for us to relate to but rather give us a playing field, introducing the element of contact with an alien species organic or not was a perfect way to similarise other "then modern" pop culture themes of alien contact. We almost always saw things through the eyes of the bots, unlike this new movie where its vice versa, so it was important to give the bots that personallity for the viewers to relate to. It came in the forms of what it's like to be responsable, be a hero, when to do what you are told, and that you should consume things in moderation whether it be energon or alcohol j/k.

 

[bluejake01]

They didn't need to do in every G1 episode.

And they don't need to it every 5 minutes during the movie. Just one oil rig attack scene would be fine for the entire trilogy.

My god...it's worse than I thought. You really think that all Transformers was, was a statement against fossil fuel abuse? That's what it has boiled down to for you? One scene thrown in for you, and the movies would be saved?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I agree with you there, however the show's focus was on the bots not the human element. Every transformer had a different personallity, therefore the viewers had something to relate to, the humans were not put in there for us to relate to but rather give us a playing field, introducing the element of contact with an alien species organic or not was a perfect way to similarise other "then modern" pop culture themes of alien contact. We almost always saw things through the eyes of the bots, unlike this new movie where its vice versa, so it was important to give the bots that personallity for the viewers to relate to. It came in the forms of what it's like to be responsable, be a hero, when to do what you are told, and that you should consume things in moderation whether it be energon or alcohol j/k.

Microbots indeed seemed to suggest that.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Who here has seen the movie ? b/c i need to ask a question but it'll have to be in PM

 

[blind_fury]

If something is thematically important or is part of a shows premise then it will play out in near every single, if not every single episode.

This movie isn't called "Lets show that scene from the one episode Blind_Fury once saw" it's called "Transformers". And they've had over 20 years of episodes, merchandise, and comics...and only that one episode fighting over an oil rig.

How do you decide what to keep from the source material and what to ignore. hmmmm.

Powerglide crush episode? no.

Aztec crystal episode? no.

Electrical gremlin episode? nah.

what about the episode that set the tone for the entire first two seasons, had a relevent socio-political context, and would make the film more poignant? hmmm.

 

[bluejake01]

It seems to me, having read blind_fury's, blind fury for months now, that the more this movie gets right, the more he has to scramble to find things to nit-pick. In CFlash's case I respect his opinions, and he concedes a point when he sees them make an effort, or sees something he likes. B_F is dead set that he will hate this movie and "real fans" will hate it too.

 

[CFlash]

And the Transformers was created under Reagan.

So? The Energy Crisis was still in the zeitgeist. As was the Department of Energy, created by Carter, trying to flex its muscle (or not flexing) under Reagan. It was a very big deal at the time. In fact, it became even more important as it was put in charge of not only getting rid of nuclear weapons during the arms-race cutbacks (remember all those Gorbechov "Summits"?) but also actually maintaining them and nuclear power plants.

To ignore some of these real-world things that Transformers touched upon- in an afternoon kid's cartoon no matter how subtle- is ridiculous. Of course it took almost a decade and a "cable" channel to go all out and do the "hit you over the head" thing (Capt Planet) for the more obtuse kids out there.

The Autobots leader was modelled after John Wayne,

So?

and the show was ridiculed later on for insensitive portrayals of ethnic minorities.

Didn't this happen only once? And even then only arguably so. You overstate the point.

It's not this bastion of liberal values.

No, because then it would have sucked and been worse than Captain Planet. You like to spoon-fed your themes and hit over the head.

Furthermore THEY NEVER TALKED ABOUT SCARCITY.

Of course they did. Seemed that Cybertron being a dying planet that ONCE had an abundance of energy is all you need to make the point. Some of us don't need to be constantly reminded of a premise. I now see that there do exist people that need to have their hand held.

 

[blind_fury]

My god...it's worse than I thought. You really think that all Transformers was, was a statement against fossil fuel abuse? That's what it has boiled down to for you? One scene thrown in for you, and the movies would be saved?

Actually this one of many things I would like see explored or touched upon in the films.

It's not a deal breaker. Just another wasted opportunity to reveal the subversive and interesting elements from G1.

 

[Avangarde]

Who here has seen the movie ? b/c i need to ask a question but it'll have to be in PM

ask away dude

 

[bluejake01]

Didn't this happen only once? And even then only arguably so. You overstate the point.

But didn't they only attack an oil rig ONCE? And even then it was any type of power source they were after. You overstate the point.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

How do you decide what to keep from the source material and what to ignore. hmmmm.

Powerglide crush episode? no.

Aztec crystal episode? no.

Electrical gremlin episode? nah.

what about the episode that set the tone for the entire first two seasons, had a relevent socio-political context, and would make the film more poignant? hmmm.

But there are plenty of "good" episodes, even better one's in Beast Wars and the stellar ones in Beast Machines and even some interesting stuff in UT and the Japanese continuities. As I said "Ultimate Weapon" is a great episode, I like "Five Faces of Darkness" and "Ultimate Doom is fun"....I even like the character of Dr Arkaville...I could see him coming into a movieverse. The problem is you've, as far as I can tell, only really remember one episode. The one where they attack an oil rig. It doesn't surprise me as most people actually have only seen the three parter which kicked off the 98 episode series. However, that episode is a very small part of the whole series, and certainly had nothing to do with describing the overall story. They didn't lust for oil, they lusted after a supposedly plasma like substance called energon...which wasn't made solely or mostly from fossil fuels. So if you want to adapt that into a film, and who knows maybe we'll see it somewhere down the line, they'll have to figure out just what energon is...and it might not be oil or fossil fuels.

 

[bluejake01]

Actually this one of many things I would like see explored or touched upon in the films.

It's not a deal breaker. Just another wasted opportunity to reveal the subversive and interesting elements from G1.

I see...but I think you are searching for another word...unless you really meant the show was subversive...which I don't get.

 

[Vile]

Accept they are making movies for us the viewers, without us they have no business.

And indeed they are - we're getting a movie.

But if people believe that BaY OWES us an Optimus with no flames....or a none Bug-BumbleBee, or a Starscream/Megatron rivalry or, hell, even Soundwave to be in the movie...he doesnt.

 

[Avangarde]

But didn't they only attack an oil rig ONCE? And even then it was any type of power source they were after. You overstate the point.

I think energon was produced from multiple formers or energy. The decpts attacked a number of power plants as well, I'm not going to bother going through all the episodes but the production of energon was shown a number of times through out the series.

 

[blind_fury]

It seems to me, having read blind_fury's, blind fury for months now, that the more this movie gets right, the more he has to scramble to find things to nit-pick. In CFlash's case I respect his opinions, and he concedes a point when he sees them make an effort, or sees something he likes. B_F is dead set that he will hate this movie and "real fans" will hate it too.

Ive been reading bluejake01 for months now and he doesn't debate people. He simply looks for opportunities to slander people who disagree with his "the source material has nothing else to offer" position. He acts as if he's just a neutral observer when he was never a fair judge of character but a snake waiting for a chance to come out the grass. He doesn't care about constructive criticism. He'd rather censor everything that doesn't echo other Bay cheerleaders.

wow! these slanderous dissertations are fun! No wonder bluejake01 stoops to this level so often.

 

[Vile]

fixed.

Exactly!

Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Godzilla and MAYBE....Transformers?

It's all the same point.

 

[bluejake01]

I think energon was produced from multiple formers or energy. The decpts attacked a number of power plants as well, I'm not going to bother going through all the episodes but the production of energon was shown a number of times through out the series.

BINGO! That was the point I was making. The Decepticons were ALWAYS after POWER. Be it energy, control, force...they wanted power. BUT dependence on OIL was never a focus. IN the new film the Decepticons want POWER, and will take it at our expense, without regard to the planet or it's people's. Cybertron is in ruins because of this powerlust...seem to me that the theme is there in the new film...clear as day...so yet another element that was from the comic and toon that we see present it's self in the film...curious...I could have sworn this was TINO, and there was no redeeming value in it.

 

[CFlash]

But didn't they only attack an oil rig ONCE? And even then it was any type of power source they were after. You overstate the point.

Oil rig once. Oil tankers another time. Oil from refinery yet another time after that. (Come on people, no pattern yet???). Ruby at the top of the planet used to harness the planet's energy another time. Bringing Cybertron into orbit to directly take the energy another time. Dinobot Island- yup rich in resources Megs wants it. Insatiable Insecticons eating swaths of land. Yes this is in between the sporadic Camelot throaway filler episodes.

P.S.
You know, it's OK if you like the Castle Greyskull mythic Search for The Magical Artifact that latter episodes fell into. Lots of people like that stuff. Apparently, this movie's creator's liked that aspect to. I preferred the original topical sci-fi elements.