Diamond List for May 9th, 2007

[Darthphere]

I can't speak for the rest of the people buying NA now, but I just let it go after a while. I was as pissed off as anyone when Bendis tore the Avengers asunder and replaced them with his grim-&-gritty fanboy wet dream, but that was three years ago now. I checked out the first couple issues of NA, decided it was crap, and voiced my discontent to Marvel with my wallet by dropping it. But now, 28 issues later, I've just moved on from that bout of anger over Disassembled and looked at it as a story unto itself rather than a bastardization of the Avengers mythos. I don't get how people can stay angry enough to resolve never to enjoy a comic again on nothing more than principle forever, especially in a serialized medium like comics. NA's now got a better roster, a more interesting concept, and fantastic art, so I got interested in it again on its own merit. New Avengers and Mighty Avengers still aren't the Avengers to me; they never will be. For good Avengers stories, I'm looking forward to Avengers Classic; but for a fun, decent superhero team-up with an idealistic core, NA is pretty entertaining. Just get over it already.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Like these 13?

COUNTDOWN #51 $2.99
GREEN ARROW #74 $2.99
GREEN LANTERN CORPS #12 $2.99
MYSTERY IN SPACE #8 (OF 8) $3.99
OUTSIDERS #47 $2.99
BLACK PANTHER #27 CWI $2.99
BLADE #9 $2.99
GHOST RIDER #11 $2.99
HULK AND POWER PACK #3 (OF 4) $2.99
MARVEL ADVENTURES FANTASTIC FOUR #24 $2.99
NEW X-MEN #38 $2.99
PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #7 CWI $2.99
WOLVERINE ORIGINS #14 $2.99


cuz those all suck ass

First, you miss my point. I can afford to get many of the other books that I consider not as good as many others I read. (Plus, of that list, I would say New X-Men, Black Panther, Mystery In Space, and Countdown are all better than New Avengers....also, I'm mixed on Ghost Rider...it's probably just as good as New Avengers.) I was pointing out that of all the comics being released this week, New Avengers is CLEARLY not the best of the bunch; yet, it's the most popular. And, while it's true that New Avengers has gotten better, I thought the last issue was pretty awful. We're back to fighting Ninjas, the comic really didn't involve any advancement in its story, and while I thought Spider-Man and Wolverine were bad choices for Avengers, I think Doctor Strange is even worse. (Especially considering we just read the excellent Doctor Strange - The Oath.)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Hey, by process of elimination, ULTIMATE POWER is the best Ultimate book out right now.

Seriously, I actually have been enjoying it. It's nothing groundbreaking, and the JMS chapters are fudging Thor's dialogue, but it's been a straightforward story so far.

Ditto. I think Ultimate Power is far better than New Avengers. But, I understand Photojones has a very clear bias against it. It is the best Ultimate book currently out; at least until the final Ultimates 2 book finally gets released.

 

[Darthphere]

First, you miss my point. I can afford to get many of the other books that I consider not as good as many others I read. (Plus, of that list, I would say New X-Men, Black Panther, Mystery In Space, and Countdown are all better than New Avengers....also, I'm mixed on Ghost Rider...it's probably just as good as New Avengers.)

Black Panther? LAWL! Ghost Rider? LAWL! And you haven't even read Countdown yet, so how you came up with its better than New Avengers is beyond me.

I was pointing out that of all the comics being released this week, New Avengers is CLEARLY not the best of the bunch; yet, it's the most popular.

Subjective and irrelevant. Just because its the book thats being bought the most, doesn't mean we think its the best of our pull lists. Thats an illogical assertion to make.

And, while it's true that New Avengers has gotten better, I thought the last issue was pretty awful. We're back to fighting Ninjas, the comic really didn't involve any advancement in its story, and while I thought Spider-Man and Wolverine were bad choices for Avengers, I think Doctor Strange is even worse. (Especially considering we just read the excellent Doctor Strange - The Oath.)

Again, subjective. Like Corp said just like 4 posts ago, its time to get over it. Accept the ninjas and move on. And I honestly have no clue how you can say there's no advancement in the story. For a Bendis comic, this comic is moving a high speeds.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Black Panther? LAWL! Ghost Rider? LAWL! And you haven't even read Countdown yet, so how you came up with its better than New Avengers is beyond me.

Well, since I've read every issue of 52, I would bet that Countdown, especially that first issue, is going to be much better than New Avengers. And, while Black Panther, when it first came out, wasn't very good, it has gotten much, much better ever since Black Panther's search for a bride and subsequent marriage to Storm. Ghost Rider, while not a great comic, has been ok...like I said, at least equal with the dreadful New Avengers.

Subjective and irrelevant. Just because its the book thats being bought the most, doesn't mean we think its the best of our pull lists. Thats an illogical assertion to make.

New Avengers, as I've shown, is the most popular book this week with those of us supplying pull lists on this thread. That isn't subjective or irrelevant. That says out of all the books coming out this week, Marvel will look at the one thing that matters: sales. And, my assertion is that there are easily 13 other books being released that week that are better than New Avengers.

Again, subjective. Like Corp said just like 4 posts ago, its time to get over it. Accept the ninjas and move on. And I honestly have no clue how you can say there's no advancement in the story. For a Bendis comic, this comic is moving a high speeds.

First, if you look at my record, I vary rarely have ever complained about New Avengers. I might give it a low grade in the bought/thought thread; but, that's pretty much the most complaining I've done. Also, like I point out, you miss the point. This isn't so much a complaint about New Avengers; but, it's a complaint that out of all the books available, the one selling the most among posters is clearly not the best available.

 

[PhotoJones]

Again, subjective. Like Corp said just like 4 posts ago, its time to get over it. Accept the ninjas and move on. And I honestly have no clue how you can say there's no advancement in the story. For a Bendis comic, this comic is moving a high speeds.

Now, that's ludicrous. I'm liking it as much as the next guy, but fast paced, it ain't. They're still in Japan, and have yet to fight Elektra, and Tony is still walking around the Sanctum Santorum talking to invisible heroes.

Now, the first issue of Mighty Avengers was pretty fast paced for a Bendis comic, or any comic for that matter.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes, New Avengers' pacing is not only slow, but Memento-like and confusing. Stuff happens in each issue, but Bendis keeps looping back around to the same events and showing us moments after the last we saw of them or the same moments from different perspectives and stuff. Motion, yes, but not a whole lot of progress.

First, if you look at my record, I vary rarely have ever complained about New Avengers. I might give it a low grade in the bought/thought thread; but, that's pretty much the most complaining I've done. Also, like I point out, you miss the point. This isn't so much a complaint about New Avengers; but, it's a complaint that out of all the books available, the one selling the most among posters is clearly not the best available.

Well, isn't that the way it always is? Most popular has never equated to most technically impressive. I'd love to see Fables or Checkmate or The Immortal Iron Fist or a half-dozen other great titles selling at #1 on the charts every month, but it just doesn't happen.

 

[Darthphere]

Well, since I've read every issue of 52, I would bet that Countdown, especially that first issue, is going to be much better than New Avengers. And, while Black Panther, when it first came out, wasn't very good, it has gotten much, much better ever since Black Panther's search for a bride and subsequent marriage to Storm. Ghost Rider, while not a great comic, has been ok...like I said, at least equal with the dreadful New Avengers.

You can't assume that because one comic was good that the other will be just as good. You can't do that, at all. For all we know Countdown ends up being the crappiest comic ever written. Black Panther is still terrible, and thats a compliment because it was utter **** before. And Ghost Rider just plain old sucks.

New Avengers, as I've shown, is the most popular book this week with those of us supplying pull lists on this thread. That isn't subjective or irrelevant. That says out of all the books coming out this week, Marvel will look at the one thing that matters: sales. And, my assertion is that there are easily 13 other books being released that week that are better than New Avengers.

Are you dense? Sales have nothing to do with this argument. You're talking specifically about quality, and again thats subjective. This week, the book I'm looking forward to the most is Nova #2, but by your assertion and illogical fallacy it must be New Avengers because thats what the most people are buying. See how stupid that sounds? There probably is 13 books out this week that are better than New Avengers, IN YOUR OPINION, but so what? You buy books you admit to hating, why should we give a **** about YOUR OPINION? So please, in the future, don't presume to know what we like or don't like.

This isn't so much a complaint about New Avengers; but, it's a complaint that out of all the books available, the one selling the most among posters is clearly not the best available.

So what? Again, its ****ing subjective. And again, your taste in comics is highly questionable, so lets get off the high horse and join us back here in reality. While I agree there are books coming out this certain week that are better than New Avengers, that doesn't mean that because its the most popular, its the best. Which is the point, you're clearly missing here.

 

[PhotoJones]

Well, isn't that the way it always is? Most popular has never equated to most technically impressive. I'd love to see Fables or Checkmate or The Immortal Iron Fist or a half-dozen other great titles selling at #1 on the charts every month, but it just doesn't happen.

We need Horrorfan to come in and tell you that your "no name indie books" suck, and that they'd sell in the top 10 if their stories were decent and their premises were cool.

 

[Darthphere]

Now, that's ludicrous. I'm liking it as much as the next guy, but fast paced, it ain't. They're still in Japan, and have yet to fight Elektra, and Tony is still walking around the Sanctum Santorum talking to invisible heroes.

Now, the first issue of Mighty Avengers was pretty fast paced for a Bendis comic, or any comic for that matter.

Thats why I compared it to a Bendis comic. If this was the old New Avengers, Tony would still be putting his armor on at this point.

Also, they fought Elektra once already, remember this book is jumping back and forth between the present and flashbacks so if you go back and look at the issues, a lot has happened.

 

[Max J Power]

Nothing.

 

[Nightwing 52]

edit...

 

[Darthphere]

What's happened to this thread?

Garbage, lots of garbage.

 

[Darthphere]

I just realized I've been defending the purchasing of New Avengers in this thread. I need to lie down for a while.

 

[CConn]

I don't and won't buy NA.

 

[Darthphere]

I thought you left.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

Countdown #51 $2.99
Mystery In Space #8 (of 8) $3.99

 

[Phaedrus45]

You can't assume that because one comic was good that the other will be just as good. You can't do that, at all. For all we know Countdown ends up being the crappiest comic ever written. Black Panther is still terrible, and thats a compliment because it was utter **** before. And Ghost Rider just plain old sucks.

I'm not saying it will be just as good; but, I'm going to assume that it will be much better than New Avengers. Given nothing but the titles in deciding which books I'd buy before others, Countdown would definitely be a bit higher than New Avengers. (Plus, the best predictor of future events is past behavior. I know I liked 52 well enough in the past and that I've been flustered by Bendis' writing, especially on New Avengers...hence, my reasoning.)

Also, I do read all these books. Many just spout off why a book sucks without even reading them.

Are you dense? Sales have nothing to do with this argument. You're talking specifically about quality, and again thats subjective. This week, the book I'm looking forward to the most is Nova #2, but by your assertion and illogical fallacy it must be New Avengers because thats what the most people are buying. See how stupid that sounds? There probably is 13 books out this week that are better than New Avengers, IN YOUR OPINION, but so what? You buy books you admit to hating, why should we give a **** about YOUR OPINION? So please, in the future, don't presume to know what we like or don't like.

In reading people's opinions of New Avengers for the few years it's been out, it's a pretty safe opinion. But, you like to argue for argue's sake. We get that's your Hype personality.

As for bringing out the fact that I read books that disappoint me, yep, I do. If it was anything other than a Marvel comic, I'd drop it. I've been a Marvel fan my entire life, and I will continue to be. But, I'm fair enough to point out if a comic sucks. I've pointed out if I was on a limited budget, that would change. But, I'm not and it doesn't have to.

So what? Again, its ****ing subjective. And again, your taste in comics is highly questionable, so lets get off the high horse and join us back here in reality. While I agree there are books coming out this certain week that are better than New Avengers, that doesn't mean that because its the most popular, its the best. Which is the point, you're clearly missing here.

As usual, for the sake of arguing for arguments sake, you try to prove a point that I'm not even arguing against. I didn't say that people who buy New Avengers think that this comic is the best. What I've said is I'm surprised that a book that is complained about so much on The Hype is the highest bought book by those of us who post on this thread for this given week.

 

[Darthphere]

We all argue for the sake or arguing. Nobody is forced to or has to argue anything on here, so please, don't try to downplay my opinions in that manner.

Fact is, people saw a new direction for the New Avengers post CW and jumped on because they were intrigued, morbid curiosity etc, and most of us have thought it has been a vast imporvement over his earlier stuff on the title, therefore we buy it, coupled with the fact that a lot of the important stuff in the MU happens in the Bendis book, we have another reason to buy it. As of right now, anything Pre-CW in NA is irrelevant to me, as I am enjoying the book Post CW. That is all. Any past complaining we did is just that, in the past.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Works for me...but, come on. You have to admit you are one of the top arguers on the Hype. I know when I think "smart ass reply," your name is one that comes to mind.

 

[Darthphere]

I wear that distincition with honor Phaed. Fear my wrath.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I still complain about Bendis' dialog, which I've been sick of since I quit reading Ultimate Spider-Man years ago, and his treatment of certain characters. So there's still some present-day *****ing on NA. But it's like the *****ing I do for McDuffie's FF or Slott's Initiative. It's minor stuff--not worth dropping the book for but enough that I'm moved to share my discontent with all of you, my loyal, compassionate fellow comic fans.

Works for me...but, come on. You have to admit you are one of the top arguers on the Hype. I know when I think "smart ass reply," your name is one that comes to mind.

You haven't met The Leaguer, have you?

 

[Darthphere]

Dude, how ****ing pretentious can you get? Honestly. You're constantly talking down to comic book fans when the irony of it all is you're one too.

"Or maybe Marvel fans are bigger gluttons for punishment than DC fans are"

Dude, who the **** do you think you are. I mean, I'm definitely one of the most negative people on this board and even I am tiring of your constant negativity and persistant bashing of Marvel comics. For someone who hates the current climate at Marvel, you sure buy a lot of their books. You turn everything into a DC does this and Marvel doesn't debate when its completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

iloveclones point is completely valid and true. We, the fans you seem to look down and degrade constantly are the only ones to blame for the state of comics. A man can't run a successful business on luck for 7 years, thats fact. You can hate who he is, and what he does and says, but at the end of the day he sells comics. Thats something you can't deny. And your directness to say that fans are "gluttons for punishment" or implying that comic book fans have bad taste constantly because they don't read X-Men First Class or whatever **** you think is the holy grail of Marvel comics is ****ing annoying. People buy comics they like, point blank. I may act like an ******* around here spouting off hate on books, but its pretty much just for jest. I couldn't care less if GNR for example reads PWJ, I give people a hard time, but its all in good fun, or at least I hope. But I can't say the same about you. Your pretentiousness and high horse mentality is just aggravating and I can't fathom why people find you to be so "objective" when you're so clearly not.

I aplogize for the rest of you for derailing this thread. Please continue with your business.

Looking back on this, I was being overly harsh on you Dread and was taking out some of my real world frustration on you for no reason. I apologize for this and really didn't mean what I said here, ok maybe a little but it was wrong of me. Again, sorry.:heart:

 

[CConn]

I thought you left.

Farewell Tour.

Looking back on this, I was being overly harsh on you Dread and was taking out some of my real world frustration on you for no reason. I apologize for this and really didn't mean what I said here, ok maybe a little but it was wrong of me. Again, sorry.:heart:

*****.

 

[Darthphere]

Farewell Tour.

*****.

Says the guy leaving an internet messageboard because he got his feelings hurt, oh snap!