Diamond List for November 14, 2007

Who's using Ultron again? And will it be Frank Cho Ultron or something more... boring.

I never saw the point of House of M. So I agree with you all the way. And I don't eve know what right Bendis felt he had to end it the way he did [BLACKOUT]having Wanda get rid of most of the mutants :oldrazz:[/BLACKOUT] . Will Secret Invasion be any good? Possibly. But he's already burning me out in New Avengers [BLACKOUT]with all the who's a skrull talk, I don't want to read that for four issues and then find out OMG YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTOR IS TEH SKRULL BUY THE TIE INS and OMG TEH SKRULLS ARE SO STRONG THEY DIDNT EVEN NEED TO SECRETLY INVADE THEY COULD TAKE US AT ANY MINUTE[/BLACKOUT]

Who is using Ultron isn't the Frank Cho version and it isn't boring, so far. Surf the Bought/Thought topic if you want spoilers.

I'm already burnt out on the Skrull stuff, too. Skrulls are like ninjas; they have been revealed or defeated so many times that you really can't take them seriously, and when they wage a competant threat, most times it just makes the heroes look inept. Bendis probably wants to "tell a Skrull story the way they always should have been" in his arrogant belief that Marvel needs fixing and that it would all crumble without his ideas. But most of all, we JUST GOT DONE with a storyline where Marvel's heroes were at each other's throats and didn't trust each other, and the rest of the line is trying to catch some breath and recover from that, such as having everyone dogpile Hulk in WWH, and here Bendis goes with ANOTHER paranoia inducing, heroes infighting, gobble-de-gook with a lot of double-talk story. He's 0-2 in events so far. I'm hardly expecting SI to be a grand slam.
 
I've played this game with you before. No answer anyone gives is good for you.

You picked a slew of books that are mini's or far removed from Bendis' books and you know it.

How are Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Iron Fist removed from Bendis' books? They're on his damn teams!

I picked every book that I could think of off the top of my head. I think I nailed pretty much every book Marvel's currently publishing with the exception of a few. Find them and list them, it won't matter. Nothing happening in Bendis' Avengers books has anything to do the other ones, and you know it.

My point is that stuff that happens there is instantly "canonized" and quite frequently is used as ore for events. CIVIL WAR had seeds in his titles, and so did HOM beforehand. Now we have SECRET INVASION coming and the ENTIRE build-up is in his titles, because this is his event, and all of his works from SECRET WAR onward are being used for it. I haven't read this week's ILLUMINATI yet but basically when Bendis writes usually becomes Joe Q backed Marvel Law. If he wants to say someone was a Skrull for years, then they are. If he wants to say Illuminati existed behind the scenes, then they did, even if it makes no sense. If he wants to say Beyonder is a Mutant Inhuman, then that's what it is.

I don't hate MIGHTY AVENGERS, it is almost too stupid to hate. Despite the fact that it stars Iron Man's Thug-Squad, it is light-hearted action, and I can understand that. But NEW AVENGERS is where the big ideas that Bendis feels the MU needs spring forth. SECRET INVASION is the biggest example. If you haven't read his crap beforehand, you won't get whatever crap he piles into that one.

I also like knowing what I am complaining about. And you need to read some books you hate to appreciate the ones you love sometimes.

I'm not in the mood for an argument which ends in your perennial opinion that I have no taste and that true fans read indie's or nothing at all. I just felt like replying once.

Wow, way to try and make an argument where none exists. Did I tell you to read this book or that book? No? Shut the **** up. I'm saying, that you're a fool to actually believe that what happens in New and Mighty Avengers has some profound influence on the rest of Marvel's catalogue. It's not even an opinion. It's fact. Wake up and see it.
 
DC Comics
Batman and the Outsiders #1
Booster Gold #4
Countdown to Final Crisis #24
Green Arrow/Black Canary #2
Nightwing #138
Teen Titans East
Wonder Woman #14

Marvel Comics
Avengers: The Initiative #1
New Avengers #36
Nova #8
Punisher #52
Punisher: War Journal #13
Thor #4
Wolverine #59
World War Hulk #5
X-Factor #25
 
How are Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Iron Fist removed from Bendis' books? They're on his damn teams!

I picked every book that I could think of off the top of my head. I think I nailed pretty much every book Marvel's currently publishing with the exception of a few. Find them and list them, it won't matter. Nothing happening in Bendis' Avengers books has anything to do the other ones, and you know it.

Actually, New Avengers impacted Spider-Man's books in HUGE ways by having him join the team. That caused him to move into Avenger's Tower with his family, and led to all the stuff JMS had happen in CW. That is in direct relation to New Avengers.

Wolverine is connected to the X-Books, although right now...yeah, he's rather isolated. Writers seem to be doing their own thing on that book.

Iron Fist really hasn't done much of anything in NA aside for showing up.

Iron Man's road to becoming Director of Shield started in Bendis' books. It started in SECRET WAR, and Maria Hill was HIS character, and his Illuminati special was the prelude to CW, and the "Does Hulk Kill" argument. HOUSE OF M, which is STILL gutting the X-Universe years later, spawned out of his run on the last volume of Avengers, DISASSEMBLED. An epilogue to that story occured in NA that got Magneto back in circulation with his powers intact, and produced The Collective, who was used (or shoehorned) into Omega Flight. OF was a good book but Collective was Bendis' element that they had to work in. SECRET INVASION is Marvel's big event for 2008 and Bendis himself has promised that his prior work was build-up for that; NA has been doing so for a while, with the Skrull thing.

Has there been an upside? Yes. Bendis is largely responsible for getting some neglected characters back into circulation, especially Luke Cage, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, Purple Man, and The Hood. Before ALIAS, no other books even MENTIONED Purple Man and no SHIELD agent would have discussed him. Immediately afterward, suddenly he's the biggest threat SHIELD ever had. So to deny Bendis' influence on the line is a bit naive. Just because stuff doesn't DIRECTLY TIE IN doesn't mean that it doesn't have an influence, especially in the background with the editors, who pretty much give Bendis free reign.

Is EVERY book connected? No. I'm sure you'd argue at least half aren't. But the point is that whatever events or "retcons" or reveals that Bendis always does, are the sorts of things that OTHER books and OTHER writers will eventually either have to embrace, work around, explain away, or agree to.

Look how ILLUMINATI effected Warlock in AC? It stripped him of his core weapon, his Soul Gem, with ZERO details. Reed just stole it, off panel. Abnett & Lanning, telling their distant space opera, now have to either expand on that, ignore it, or at least take heed of the power difference. I'm not saying it will be BAD, but I am saying it has a cause-effect relationship.

Wow, way to try and make an argument where none exists. Did I tell you to read this book or that book? No? Shut the **** up. I'm saying, that you're a fool to actually believe that what happens in New and Mighty Avengers has some profound influence on the rest of Marvel's catalogue. It's not even an opinion. It's fact. Wake up and see it.

Despite my best intentions, I replied again and I think made a better argument this time.
 
Actually, New Avengers impacted Spider-Man's books in HUGE ways by having him join the team. That caused him to move into Avenger's Tower with his family, and led to all the stuff JMS had happen in CW. That is in direct relation to New Avengers.

You mean, it was. It hasn't been that way for a looong time now, and judging by what's coming up, it won't be anytime in the near future.

Wolverine is connected to the X-Books, although right now...yeah, he's rather isolated. Writers seem to be doing their own thing on that book.

I don't mind it. I'm not a Wolverine fanboy, but I like Logan. He's an easy character to write good stories around.

Iron Fist really hasn't done much of anything in NA aside for showing up.

I wish Bendis would dump him. Brubaker and Fraction are doing MUCH more interesting things with him in IIF and his inclusion in NA just seems to taint it.

Iron Man's road to becoming Director of Shield started in Bendis' books. It started in SECRET WAR, and Maria Hill was HIS character, and his Illuminati special was the prelude to CW, and the "Does Hulk Kill" argument. HOUSE OF M, which is STILL gutting the X-Universe years later, spawned out of his run on the last volume of Avengers, DISASSEMBLED. An epilogue to that story occured in NA that got Magneto back in circulation with his powers intact, and produced The Collective, who was used (or shoehorned) into Omega Flight. OF was a good book but Collective was Bendis' element that they had to work in. SECRET INVASION is Marvel's big event for 2008 and Bendis himself has promised that his prior work was build-up for that; NA has been doing so for a while, with the Skrull thing.

That's all well and good, but I'm talking in the now. That stuff's all a few years in the past. Right now, Mighty and New Avengers aren't affecting any other books to the extent that you'd have to read them to know what's going on. I mean, what you're doing is just listing books that have referenced or featured cameos from Bendis-created characters or storylines. It's a shared universe. Unless you're going to read every book, get used to it. I'm just saying that there's no reason at all to think that the Avengers books are necessary reading. Once upon a time, they might have been, I'll grant you that. Now? Not at all.

Has there been an upside? Yes. Bendis is largely responsible for getting some neglected characters back into circulation, especially Luke Cage, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, Purple Man, and The Hood. Before ALIAS, no other books even MENTIONED Purple Man and no SHIELD agent would have discussed him. Immediately afterward, suddenly he's the biggest threat SHIELD ever had. So to deny Bendis' influence on the line is a bit naive. Just because stuff doesn't DIRECTLY TIE IN doesn't mean that it doesn't have an influence, especially in the background with the editors, who pretty much give Bendis free reign.

Of those, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and the Purple Man are his among his best efforts. He's ruined Jessica Drew for me and I hate his Ms. Marvel.

Is EVERY book connected? No. I'm sure you'd argue at least half aren't. But the point is that whatever events or "retcons" or reveals that Bendis always does, are the sorts of things that OTHER books and OTHER writers will eventually either have to embrace, work around, explain away, or agree to.

Again, SHARED UNIVERSE. Last week, The MC one-shot mentioned the Stamford tragedy. Does that mean some kid had to run out and buy the CW trade to understand that? Hell, no. You act like that's the case, though.

Look how ILLUMINATI effected Warlock in AC? It stripped him of his core weapon, his Soul Gem, with ZERO details. Reed just stole it, off panel. Abnett & Lanning, telling their distant space opera, now have to either expand on that, ignore it, or at least take heed of the power difference. I'm not saying it will be BAD, but I am saying it has a cause-effect relationship.
That's reaching a bit. At this point, we don't know what's going on with Adam. Apparently he's working for the bad guy, so all bets are off as far as he's concerned. Besides, it'll be explained one way or another. If I hadn't read the Illuminati mini, it wouldn't have taken anything away or left me confused about what was happening. I'm more confused as to why DnA chose to leave out AC's best characters.

Despite my best intentions, I replied again and I think made a better argument this time.

Yes, you did. The reason for that is that you actually attacked what I said head on instead dragging things up from the past like you're so apt to do. Seriously, man. Get over that **** and get over yourself. Your feelings get hurt more then anyone else on these boards and that's pathetic. The next time I feel like insulting your taste in comics, I'll let you know. Until then, take what I type at face value and stop trying to read into it things that aren't there.
 
You mean, it was. It hasn't been that way for a looong time now, and judging by what's coming up, it won't be anytime in the near future.

Neither of us knows what is in the future. Marvel in Nov. 2008 could be doing things they vowed never to do in Nov. 2007.

I don't mind it. I'm not a Wolverine fanboy, but I like Logan. He's an easy character to write good stories around.

And you'd be amazed how many writers can screw that up by tacking on ridiculous elements, like magic swordsmen and whatnot.

I wish Bendis would dump him. Brubaker and Fraction are doing MUCH more interesting things with him in IIF and his inclusion in NA just seems to taint it.

I agree, although I wonder if the exposure has helped IIF's sales remain steady at 35k, or that is entirely due to the quality of the book. In any case, Rand hasn't made much of a splash in NA for that to matter much; recall, Jessica Drew got to beat the hell out of Wolverine very soon after she arrived, for instance.

That's all well and good, but I'm talking in the now. That stuff's all a few years in the past. Right now, Mighty and New Avengers aren't affecting any other books to the extent that you'd have to read them to know what's going on. I mean, what you're doing is just listing books that have referenced or featured cameos from Bendis-created characters or storylines. It's a shared universe. Unless you're going to read every book, get used to it. I'm just saying that there's no reason at all to think that the Avengers books are necessary reading. Once upon a time, they might have been, I'll grant you that. Now? Not at all.

But in the near future? With SECRET INVASION less than a year away?

Of those, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and the Purple Man are his among his best efforts. He's ruined Jessica Drew for me and I hate his Ms. Marvel.

Yeah.

Again, SHARED UNIVERSE. Last week, The MC one-shot mentioned the Stamford tragedy. Does that mean some kid had to run out and buy the CW trade to understand that? Hell, no. You act like that's the case, though.

Well, without a footnote, a new fan would have been lost. Thankfully, Marvel & DC have realized that there ARE no new fans, so they settle for milking the die-hards.

That's reaching a bit. At this point, we don't know what's going on with Adam. Apparently he's working for the bad guy, so all bets are off as far as he's concerned. Besides, it'll be explained one way or another. If I hadn't read the Illuminati mini, it wouldn't have taken anything away or left me confused about what was happening. I'm more confused as to why DnA chose to leave out AC's best characters.

No, but ILLUMINATI exists, and it's impacts may be starting to be felt as time goes on. Alas.

Yes, you did. The reason for that is that you actually attacked what I said head on instead dragging things up from the past like you're so apt to do. Seriously, man. Get over that **** and get over yourself. Your feelings get hurt more then anyone else on these boards and that's pathetic. The next time I feel like insulting your taste in comics, I'll let you know. Until then, take what I type at face value and stop trying to read into it things that aren't there.

My feelings weren't hurt. I was merely stating the obvious. I bring in the past because that is what I do. Nothing personal.
 

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