Did Peter (technically) kill Brock?

[Dragon]

id like to think hes a heck of a lot quicker then an average dude jumping towards one though

He is- but if the guy has already reached the killzone, Peter can't stop the explosion from vaporizing him. Hell- even if Peter managed to fire a webline and pull Eddie back, half his body would've been blown off.

Why don't some of you wonder why Peter didn't pull Norman out of the way of the glider?

 

[TheCaptain22555]

He didn't have force powers . If you guys payed attention Harry put his hand above the board (aerial fight) and a bomb came out. The board must be motion sensered, and all Peter needed to do was put his hand above it.

At least someone mentioned that Harry did it. Brock killed Brock. He knew what Pete was doing, but the symbiote was like crack. He needed it. And like crack, symbiote kills.

 

[November Rain]

The symbiote, as you mentioned is SENTIENT. It thinks. It makes decisions. It knew when to attack Peter. It also sensed Eddie's hatred and knew he was the perfect vessel for revenge on Peter.

oh come on, it was in serious pain during the bell tower scene and eddie happened to be the right place in the right time, if there was anyone else there, the symbiote would have attempted to bond with them or go into hiding.]

and judging from the movie, peter's rejection of the suit was never part of venom's motivation, it was all about wanting revenge on for being humiliated and losing his 'girl'. all from eddie.

Eddie was clear of the blast. He jumped into the killzone.

spidey should have made sure eddie didn't have a chance to get back to it. IF we were talking about a little girl here, plenty of people would say that spidey allowed her to die for not taking the proper precautions. Just because it's eddie, it's now legit.

Peter isn't faster than an explosion. If he was, he'd have dodged the Goblin's pumpkin bomb in the final fight of Spidey 1.

an explosion, no

but he is faster than an object being thrown at superhuman pace at close range, just look at what happened with a similar bomb with harry.

harry had enough time to throw it, for parker to dogde it and fling it back and even had enough time to 'save' harry if he chose to. All you have to do is look at the first film and his reaction to flash trying to punch him, he had so much time to react, he even reflected on how fast he was during the scene.


at the end of the day, peter took insufficient measures to make sure that eddie was out of harm's way from the symbiote and was in no more danger to either parker or himself.

I mean eddie could have easily hit parker over the head with a metal bar to try and knock him out when the symbiote was in pain and then retrieve it to finally kill him.

And his spidey sense didn't warn Peter about the bombing at the Unity Festival. It just warned him of a dangerous presence, prior to the goblin's smoke trail being seen. If it had, Peter would've already been changing into his costume.[/quote]

 

[Mr Jide]

spidey should have made sure eddie didn't have a chance to get back to it. IF we were talking about a little girl here, plenty of people would say that spidey allowed her to die for not taking the proper precautions. Just because it's eddie, it's now legit.

I dont think we can say spidey had the time to do this or that simply because these films are riddled with too much bad writing. An example is, Peter wants to get something that is out of reach but like an idiot, tries to stretch his hand out and grab (insert item) but only at the last second he realises that he can get it by web-yanking it....this sort of behaviour has always pissed me off. The fact is, the writers of the spidey movies are blatantly inconsistent when it comes to spidey's powers and ablities. That being said, I think that whole spidey/eddy/symbiot scene was written in a way that showed spidey not being able to react fast enough to save brock.

I dont think spidey was guilty of not securing eddy properly enough, it was a case of Eddy at the last second acting suicidal, jumping into the line of fire. Seriously, a pumpkin bomb, set to go off is thrown at a target and Eddy just dives in. Peter isn't a mind reader, he doesn't know what Eddy is thinking, there was nothing he could do. Like I said, I think it was a case bad writing that continued a trend of inconsistencies with spidey's abilities. Under "normal" circumstances if spidey was written in a more accurate light, could he have saved brock? I think so.

at the end of the day, peter took insufficient measures to make sure that eddie was out of harm's way from the symbiote and was in no more danger to either parker or himself.

I disagree, Brock was out of the way, granted he wasn't webbed up or anything and as he was he wasn't a threat. However, spidey was trying to keep the symbiot in check by wacking the hell out of the metal poles. Once pete tossed the pumpkin bomb, Brock uncontrollably launched himself in there. I mean by this time, Brock isn't supposed to be insane, him being crazy enough to jump into an area where a bomb's about to go off wasn't to be expected.

I mean eddie could have easily hit parker over the head with a metal bar to try and knock him out when the symbiote was in pain and then retrieve it to finally kill him.

Bro, you of all people know how spidey's powers work, that wouldn't have been possible. The spider-sense alone would have warned Pete long before Eddy could get near him, also, spidey had used up all the poles to surround the symbiot and had one in his hand as an instrument to use against the surrounding poles.

And his spidey sense didn't warn Peter about the bombing at the Unity Festival. It just warned him of a dangerous presence, prior to the goblin's smoke trail being seen. If it had, Peter would've already been changing into his costume.

Thats not how the spider sense works though. The dangerous presence of GG alone already had his senses going haywire, there's no way he could have known GG was going to be tossing bombs about. Again bad writing prevented Peter from changing the moment his spider-sense went off. Goblin was flying around and pete was just standing there, looking up like some sort of idiot, when he should have been prepping himself.

 

[TheGraphicsGuy]

As far as we know Brock didn't kill anybody in the film.

And couldn't Peter have web-zipped Brock out as he was jumping into the symbiote?

Yes and no. Brock killed those SWAT people remember? And as someone mentioned already, he killed Harry.

Peter wouldn't of had time to think, we would of because when Brock jumped into the symbiote it was slow-motion so it would have been about 1 and a half seconds long in their time, but about 5 in ours, even Spiderman can't think THAT quickly!

 

[November Rain]

what i will say is watch the footage of the scene...

eddie is shouting at peter while he's throwing,

eddie is just beside parker as the bomb is being thrown...


instead of trying to web up eddie jumping in, he runs towards the explosion and never attempts to web him out, just like he had done previously.

parker definitely took insufficient measures to account for eddie's safety.

if you wish to analyse the clip yourself, look for it on youtube or i could pm them to you on request.

 

[LordSimen]

No. Brock chose his own fate. Peter didn't kill him at all. The only person in the Spider-man series who you could argue that Peter killed was the thief from the first movie.

 

[Mr Jide]

yeah pm them to me, thanks.

 

[Mr Jide]

No. Brock chose his own fate. Peter didn't kill him at all. The only person in the Spider-man series who you could argue that Peter killed was the thief from the first movie.

Peter didn't kill him. The guy tripped and fell back, crashing through a window. Peter just didn't save him.

 

[LordSimen]

Peter didn't kill him. The guy tripped and fell back, crashing through a window. Peter just didn't save him.

I said argue, partly because it was Peter's fault he was backed into a corner in the first place and yadda, yadda, yadda. I don't believe he killed him, I was just saying he's the only one even close to arguable.

 

[November Rain]

if peter isn't responsible for eddie's death, than one could argue that venom is no more responsible for harry's death when harry chose to jump infront of his glider blades.

would anyone be happy with this conclusion that harry actually commited suicide to save a friend.

 

[LordSimen]

if peter isn't responsible for eddie's death, than one could argue that venom is no more responsible for harry's death when harry chose to jump infront of his glider blades.

would anyone be happy with this conclusion that harry actually commited suicide to save a friend.

Peter isn't responsible. He threw bomb. Eddie jumped in. He knew bomb would go off before jumping. Peter had no influence on his decision nor did he throw him into the bomb. He isn't responsible for what happens to Brock when Brock makes his own deicsion.

Eddie's responsible for Harry's death becuase unlike Peter he didn't fight the simbiote and, instead, embraced it. "I like being bad," meaning he didn't care how evil he was getting, he let the creature take him over.

 

[Mr Jide]

Ok I just watched the clip and it looks like Brock was standing closer to the poles and symbiot than Peter was. Yet Peter still throws the bomb anyway. So yeah, from the looks of it 2 thngs, 1) Peter should have had eddy secured better, I mean peter was further away from the symbiot than brock was and 2) Peter had more than enough time to save brock by web-yankin him away.



Oh and thanks Odin.

 

[November Rain]

Peter isn't responsible. He threw bomb. Eddie jumped in. He knew bomb would go off before jumping. Peter had no influence on his decision nor did he throw him into the bomb. He isn't responsible for what happens to Brock when Brock makes his own deicsion.

Eddie's responsible for Harry's death becuase unlike Peter he didn't fight the simbiote and, instead, embraced it. "I like being bad," meaning he didn't care how evil he was getting, he let the creature take him over.

This logic is flawed...

being good or bad doesn't make someone more or less responsible for anyone's death. harry's decision to jump infront of the glider blades is just as his decision as it was for eddie to jump in to rejoin with the symbiote. Yet you say one is an act or murder and the other is unintentional suicide? You'll have to come up with a more airtight case to persuade me.

pete is responsible for the death of one sentient creature (symbiote which i think had no real reason to be killed) and the manslaughter of another (eddie)

 

[November Rain]

Ok I just watched the clip and it looks like Brock was standing closer to the poles and symbiot than Peter was. Yet Peter still throws the bomb anyway. So yeah, from the looks of it 2 thngs, 1) Peter should have had eddy secured better, I mean peter was further away from the symbiot than brock was and 2) Peter had more than enough time to save brock by web-yankin him away.

Oh and thanks Odin.

you see, i always make my cases knowing that the evidence supports it

oh and i wouldn't leave the link on here, you know how some mods are looking for any excuse to ban peeps.

 

[Mr Jide]

if peter isn't responsible for eddie's death, than one could argue that venom is no more responsible for harry's death when harry chose to jump infront of his glider blades.

would anyone be happy with this conclusion that harry actually commited suicide to save a friend.

Harry allowing himself to be killed in order to save Peter isn't regarded as suicide, it's an honourable sacrifice. But I do know what you mean.

 

[Mr Jide]

you see, i always make my cases knowing that the evidence supports it

oh and i wouldn't leave the link on here, you know how some mods are looking for any excuse to ban peeps.

Hmm, I'll remove it.

 

[LordSimen]

This logic is flawed...

being good or bad doesn't make someone more or less responsible for anyone's death. harry's decision to jump infront of the glider blades is just as his decision as it was for eddie to jump in to rejoin with the symbiote. Yet you say one is an act or murder and the other is unintentional suicide? You'll have to come up with a more airtight case to persuade me.

pete is responsible for the death of one sentient creature (symbiote which i think had no real reason to be killed) and the manslaughter of another (eddie)

Brock was going to murder Peter. Harry jumped in the way. Brock killed Harry accidently. Harry chose his fate. Brock's actions were that to kill someone.

Peter was going to destroy a creature or else the creature was going to kill others, Eddie jumped into the explosion. Brock chose his fate. Peter's actions were that to save everyone.

Brock was a murderer, Peter wasn't.

 

[November Rain]

Brock was going to murder Peter. Harry jumped in the way. Brock killed Harry accidently. Harry chose his fate. Brock's actions were that to kill someone.

Peter was going to destroy a creature or else the creature was going to kill others, Eddie jumped into the explosion. Brock chose his fate. Peter's actions were that to save everyone.

Brock was a murderer, Peter wasn't.

look what i do here....

i'll rewrite your post but i'll change the perspective around..

Peter was going to MURDER a sentient symbiote lifeform. Eddie jumped in the way, Parker killed eddie accidentally, eddie chose his fate, Parker's actions were that to kill the symbiote.

There is no evidence to show the symbiote was a danger to other innocent people, the real danger was the inner hate the symbiote had. Look connors has a piece of the symbiote in his lab and that's fine, no one has died, nothing has happened. So based on this, why did it deserve to die? Because one person couldn't handle it. I suppose we should abolish all forms of knives and guns and cars and planes because they have all be mishandled under the use of one person, right?

intentions don't come into it, an innocent person (brock not under the influence of the symbiote) died became he became addicted to something, and parker failed to restrain him before taking the most desperate of measures in order to deal with a somewhat non-lethal threat (if contained properly).

 

[LordSimen]

look what i do here....

i'll rewrite your post but i'll change the perspective around..

Peter was going to MURDER a sentient symbiote lifeform. Eddie jumped in the way, Parker killed eddie accidentally, eddie chose his fate, Parker's actions were that to kill the symbiote.

There is no evidence to show the symbiote was a danger to other innocent people, the real danger was the inner hate the symbiote had. Look connors has a piece of the symbiote in his lab and that's fine, no one has died, nothing has happened. So based on this, why did it deserve to die? Because one person couldn't handle it. I suppose we should abolish all forms of knives and guns and cars and planes because they have all be mishandled under the use of one person, right?

intentions don't come into it, an innocent person (brock not under the influence of the symbiote) died became he became addicted to something, and parker failed to restrain him before taking the most desperate of measures in order to deal with a somewhat non-lethal threat (if contained properly).

I don't consider killing the simbiote life form murder. To me, implying that you're murdering it is to imply that your body murders the common cold. So no. Your perspective changed nothing. Peter threw Eddie away from the blast, Peter's actions were that of self defense against a creature that had attacked him and others. It's not Peter's fault that Eddie decided to willingly jump into the blast. Peter didn't murder him, Brock killed himself.

Eddie's actions were that of someone with the intent to kill, hurt, and cause pain to others. He wanted to murder and he was going to murder, and he did murder.

If you are going to continue to imply that killing the simbiote is an act of murder, I'm going to imply that the simbiote is a rapist and violated Peter and Brock by bonding with them.

Your logic makes no sense to me.

 

[Dragon]

oh come on, it was in serious pain during the bell tower scene and eddie happened to be the right place in the right time, if there was anyone else there, the symbiote would have attempted to bond with them or go into hiding.

You can't have it both ways. If it could go into hiding, then it didn't have to bond with someone. But there's little doubt that it read Eddie's rage and bonded with him. Plain and simple- the only people the symbiote bonded with -WANTED SOMEONE DEAD.

[and judging from the movie, peter's rejection of the suit was never part of venom's motivation, it was all about wanting revenge on for being humiliated and losing his 'girl'. all from eddie.

Well, if you want to interpret it that way, fine. Bottomline is that the symbiote- as explained, feeds on aggression, and Eddie had a' plenty.

spidey should have made sure eddie didn't have a chance to get back to it. IF we were talking about a little girl here, plenty of people would say that spidey allowed her to die for not taking the proper precautions. Just because it's eddie, it's now legit.

No. Peter saved Eddie once. He couldn't be made to be responsible for Eddie's stupidity. Peter got himself away from the symbiote and didn't want to go back to it. He probably figured Eddie would too. Anyway, he didn't have time to worry about Eddie's nuttiness. The symbiote was about to strike again, and he had to focus on stopping it.

an explosion, no

but he is faster than an object being thrown at superhuman pace at close range, just look at what happened with a similar bomb with harry.

harry had enough time to throw it, for parker to dogde it and fling it back and even had enough time to 'save' harry if he chose to. All you have to do is look at the first film and his reaction to flash trying to punch him, he had so much time to react, he even reflected on how fast he was during the scene.

Okay. I just watched it again this weekend. So I can tell you that as the sequence played out, there was no way Peter could've done anything to save Eddie.

Peter tossed the bomb.

As it was inflight, Eddie jumps at the symbiote.

The bomb makes contact with the symbiote.

Peter sees Eddie making contact with the symbiote.

Peter starts to run to help Eddie, and the bomb explodes.

And one more note- when Eddie jumps at the symbiote- The symbiote GRABS EDDIE with its tendrils. So Peter wouldn't have been able to yank Eddie free in time anyway.

at the end of the day, peter took insufficient measures to make sure that eddie was out of harm's way from the symbiote and was in no more danger to either parker or himself.

I mean eddie could have easily hit parker over the head with a metal bar to try and knock him out when the symbiote was in pain and then retrieve it to finally kill him.

Based on alot of your posts, you really seem to think Peter is supposed to be capable of miracles. He's supposed to web Eddie up even though he still has to fight the symbiote. He's supposed to grab every bit of falling debris.

Based on Gwen's death- we know that Peter isn't INFALLIBLE. In fact, that was the whole point of Spider-Man. A hero with flaws who fails. If Peter had the kind of speed you're requiring, he'd never be hit. Peter has faster reaction times than most, but he still has to think in a complex situation and strategize. Not to mention that in the Final battle he's gone through alot- nearly being KILLED by Sandman's attack- trying to protect the woman he (for some reason) loves- and he'd just seen his best friend mortally wounded.
You actually think he's supposed to be thinking ahead of every possible scenario? Eddie chose his fate just like Norman (Should Peter have saved him too?) and Ock (Should Peter have dived into the water and saved him also?)
He's Spider-Man, not God.

 

[Dragon]

Ok I just watched the clip and it looks like Brock was standing closer to the poles and symbiot than Peter was. Yet Peter still throws the bomb anyway. So yeah, from the looks of it 2 thngs, 1) Peter should have had eddy secured better, I mean peter was further away from the symbiot than brock was and 2) Peter had more than enough time to save brock by web-yankin him away.



Oh and thanks Odin.

No Peter didn't. And Eddie could have MOVED AWAY from the blast like a sane person. HE CHOSE to dive into it Then the symbiote grabs Eddie, so Peter couldn't have pulled him clear.

And guess what? Eddie just killed his best friend- tried to kill his girlfriend and tried to kill him- Because Eddie lost his job for doing something illegal. Why should Peter be shedding tears for that jerk anyway? Peter tried to save him and he didn't want to be saved.
It's crazy how some of you are making like Peter needs to kill himself to save a murderer. None of YOU would.

 

[3dman27]

No. Brock chose his own fate. Peter didn't kill him at all. The only person in the Spider-man series who you could argue that Peter killed was the thief from the first movie.

i concur pete is blameless in brocks death brock trying to regain his powers efectily commited suicide

 

[November Rain]

I don't consider killing the simbiote life form murder. To me, implying that you're murdering it is to imply that your body murders the common cold.

a common cold isn't a sentient being. so your perspective of what the symbiote is, is incorrect.

So no. Your perspective changed nothing. Peter threw Eddie away from the blast, Peter's actions were that of self defense against a creature that had attacked him and others. It's not Peter's fault that Eddie decided to willingly jump into the blast. Peter didn't murder him, Brock killed himself.

show me one scene in the entire film where the symbiote attacked anyone?

Eddie's actions were that of someone with the intent to kill, hurt, and cause pain to others. He wanted to murder and he was going to murder, and he did murder.

this comment has nothing to do with the discussion.

If you are going to continue to imply that killing the simbiote is an act of murder, I'm going to imply that the simbiote is a rapist and violated Peter and Brock by bonding with them.

maybe peter's and brock's intial bond with the symbiote was somewhat forced but the rest of the time's peter willingly put on the suit which is a sign of consent as well as brock admitting he liked having it on.

beside,s lets not go down this road of using the rape word, it's very sensitive and misusing it in order to try and make a point without knowing the history of those you are speaking to or who might be reading this page is a lil...silly.



Your logic makes no sense to me.[/quote]

 

[LordSimen]

I said it before and I'll say it again, your logic makes no sense. My opinion still stands.