Discussion: All Things Union

[Franklin Richards]

Texas is ranked 4th by Forbes in terms of states with the best debt position because of the relatively low amount of debt per capita. Municipal bonds are rated AA+. Texas has lower than the national average of unemployment. Texas did not take any Federal bailout cash.

No Texas is not tied with California or New York. The debt amounts to a little over $500 per person in Texas. In California it is $2,000 per person and in New York it is $3,000 per person. So an 18 billion dollar deficit in Texas is not the same as California's 28 billion dollar budget deficit in terms of per capita spending and in terms of total state debt.

No Texas is not currently one of the best states in terms of running deficits but to say it is on par with California or New York is laughably hilarious. Not to mention that these far left run places were having troubles even before the economic downturn where as these other states didn't start seeing problems until revenues decreased sharply and had to adjust.

Texas used $14 billion in federal stimulus funds to balance it's budget in 2009. The Forbes article sounds like a bunch of business propaganda to me. The way I understand it, Texas' business model is still causing the state to go into deep debt.

 

[Superman]

The tax breaks don't take effect until July 1. So, the "surplus" (which ignores two large liabilities payable by the state) of the current fiscal year hasn't been affected by the tax law signed by the governor.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hyper-partisan fantasies . . .

Oh good lord, Talk about hyper-partisanship BS I just love how you took one line and ignored the whole point of my post.

The point was that it doesn't matter if the tax breaks take effect now, next month or next year. The money problem the state might be having is not the reason the governor is doing any of this. The unions have given in to the cuts and the governor still won't talk to them. He just wants to bust the unions and this whole "Our State Is Broke" BS is just an excuse.

But you just keep ignoring thoes "Facts" and stick to your Right Wing talking points, I'm sure it will get you far.

 

[chaseter]

Texas used $14 billion in federal stimulus funds to balance it's budget in 2009. The Forbes article sounds like a bunch of business propaganda to me. The way I understand it, Texas' business model is still causing the state to go into deep debt.

Perry probably took some cash, he is a snake and I have no idea why people elected him back to the office. I have never read where all the funds went to so you may be right. All I remember him is saying that he will not accept any bailout funds over and over again in interviews so I assumed.

Business propaganda? Is Forbes somehow in cahoots with Texas? I am not saying Texas is the prime example of how to run a state but we are no where near as far deep as California and New York are. They are perfect examples of how not to run a state. Not to mention how big of a state TX is with only 20 something million people in it. It is going to cost more on average per person to maintain this state than it does for someone who lives in Rhode Island. The economy hurt everyone, but New York and California were having budget woes before the collapse.

 

[chaseter]

Oh good lord, Talk about hyper-partisanship BS I just love how you took one line and ignored the whole point of my post.

The point was that it doesn't matter if the tax breaks take effect now, next month or next year. The money problem the state might be having is not the reason the governor is doing any of this. The unions have given in to the cuts and the governor still won't talk to them. He just wants to bust the unions and this whole "Our State Is Broke" BS is just an excuse.

But you just keep ignoring thoes "Facts" and stick to your Right Wing talking points, I'm sure it will get you far.

There should be no public employee unions plain and simple. They have been allowed to do whatever they want for far too long. Public employee unions were born out of corruption and they continue that mantra and are draining this country dry. They are in bed with politicians just as much as those evil Wall Street Execs are in bed with GOP leaders.

What the governor wants is not ridiculous. He is asking for people to vote yearly on whether they want the union to remain viable or not. Isn't that what a Democracy is? Instead, people are forced to join those unions and forced to pay monthly dues. What if they don't want to? What if a teacher is not satisfied with making the exact same pay as a lazy teacher that does nothing? Collective bargaining and tenure has lead to a decrease in education and an increase in complacency. Our education system has slowly been going down the drain for years and I would make an educated guess and say that unions have had a hand in it just like unions had a hand in destroying private companies that we so lovingly bailed out.

Just imagine if public employee unions were illegal. Instead of all that money being spent on one teacher, another teacher could be hired for every ____ amount of teachers that are now paying more into their retirement and healthcare like the rest of the country already does. Just imagine if those teachers didn't have to pay dues and that money went instead to hiring more teachers. Just imagine if bad teachers were fired instead of unions lawyers coming in with millions of dollars behind them. Just imagine if good teachers were rewarded for their excellence instead of everyone getting the exact same. Why do you think private schools do so much better than public schools?

 

[Matt]

There should be no public employee unions plain and simple. They have been allowed to do whatever they want for far too long. Public employee unions were born out of corruption and they continue that mantra and are draining this country dry. They are in bed with politicians just as much as those evil Wall Street Execs are in bed with GOP leaders.

What the governor wants is not ridiculous. He is asking for people to vote yearly on whether they want the union to remain viable or not. Isn't that what a Democracy is? Instead, people are forced to join those unions and forced to pay monthly dues. What if they don't want to? What if a teacher is not satisfied with making the exact same pay as a lazy teacher that does nothing? Collective bargaining and tenure has lead to a decrease in education and an increase in complacency. Our education system has slowly been going down the drain for years and I would make an educated guess and say that unions have had a hand in it just like unions had a hand in destroying private companies that we so lovingly bailed out.

Just imagine if public employee unions were illegal. Instead of all that money being spent on one teacher, another teacher could be hired for every ____ amount of teachers that are now paying more into their retirement and healthcare like the rest of the country already does. Just imagine if those teachers didn't have to pay dues and that money went instead to hiring more teachers. Just imagine if bad teachers were fired instead of unions lawyers coming in with millions of dollars behind them. Just imagine if good teachers were rewarded for their excellence instead of everyone getting the exact same. Why do you think private schools do so much better than public schools?

I am still of the opinion that there needs to be collective bargaining agreements in place for the teachers. Private schools do better because in general they have better pupils who actually care about their future. A kid in inner-city Detroit isn't going to put in the same effort as someone who knows that they have a seat reserved in the Ivy League. You can't expect a teacher to be a miracle worker.

Plus, what happens when you have a school board member who decides to go on a witch hunt so he can give his fresh out of college cousin a job? What happens when an administrator decides to cut the budget by shaving off someone who is a very effective teacher, two years away from retirement but makes a lot more than someone out of college would. Some protections need to be in place, IMO.

 

[chaseter]

Private schools do better because they manage their resources better. The private sector will always do better than anything comparable to the public sector for that very reason. That is first and foremost why better quality students come from private schools. I guarantee you that if a private school took in just as much money as a public school was given with the exact same amount of teachers and students that the private school would do better. Why? Because the money for the public school trickles down through a BS level of bureaucracy that when it finally reaches the class room it is merely a percentage of what that private school has. A parent's choices on what they do with their children at home is a large factor for students today but that is another topic. You have to wonder why our kids keep getting dumber and dumber with these teachers getting paid more and more. I don't expect all teachers to be miracle workers and I don't want anybody to think I believe all teachers are terrible. This is all about the unions, not the teachers. There are great teachers and bad teachers just like every industry has bad workers and good workers.

But, you have to wonder how many more police, teachers, firemen, etc. could be hired if they paid more into their pensions or had a 401k and paid comparable health care premiums as the rest of us do. It's telling to see stories of cities and states having to cut back and asking unions members for a cut in pay or a firing of a certain number of employees. They are picking to keep their pay the same. What does that say?

What happens when a teacher with tenure becomes complacent and doesn't do their job that well anymore? What happens when teachers go on strike because they want higher wages? There are always two sides to every coin but with your questions, that is life. That is how the world works. My mother who is a non union HR manager and pushing 50 is not guaranteed her job tomorrow. We all don't have job security. That is life. It's how the world works. No where in the constitution does it say we are guaranteed a job. No where in the constitution does it say we are guaranteed the right to collectively bargain.

Unions are corrupt, self preserving entities. They use mandatory union dues to get politicians elected who they then sit across the table from during negotiations. That is collusion. People whine about politicians giving corporations back door deals but when it is the working class sucking us dry it's okay. I don't like unions period but at least with private sector unions there is a threat to over indulgence with your company going bankrupt. The only problems I have with them are when we bail them out for their wrong doings. With the public sector unions, the government can't go out of business. Our taxes go up. We all pay.

I do agree that some protections need to be in place but they should be available to everyone, not just public employee unions. Why are we all not given pensions? Why are we all not given job security? Why are we all not given great healthcare deals? Public employee unions should be illegal or they should have a 401k like the rest of us. They should pay the same amount for healthcare we all pay. If their pay is comparable to the private sector and they are given job security then they don't deserve a pension. They don't deserve to be paid 30 years after they retire. At one time, working for the government meant lower pay but better job security and a great retirement. Now working for the government means greater pay, better job security, and a great retirement...all at the cost of the tax payer. It is now better to work for the public sector than it is to work for the private sector. That is the death of this country.

 

[Kelly]

Private Schools in general is very hard to judge on how well they do or don't do....

Over the years I have had students in my classes that have come in from Private Schools...almost 100% were, immature in the area of socialization, and were FAR behind my classes academically. Discipline they were very well behaved, very polite, very respectful....but on the whole, not as far academically as my other students.

As far as Private Schools, Charter Schools....it is a school by school basis on how well they use the money they receive.

As far as this thing in Wisconsin....it looks to me like the collective bargaining as written will not allow the individual districts to do what they need to do with their budgets because the unions can hold them hostage individually....

 

[Handsome Rob]

Oh good lord, Talk about hyper-partisanship BS I just love how you took one line and ignored the whole point of my post.

The point was that it doesn't matter if the tax breaks take effect now, next month or next year. The money problem the state might be having is not the reason the governor is doing any of this. The unions have given in to the cuts and the governor still won't talk to them. He just wants to bust the unions and this whole "Our State Is Broke" BS is just an excuse.

But you just keep ignoring thoes "Facts" and stick to your Right Wing talking points, I'm sure it will get you far.

I took one statement, because I didn't care about what else you said.

What I placed in bold--the idea that he "gave away the surplus" with tax breaks--was a load of crap. I even linked in a previous post to the actual letter that the $121.4 million dollar "surplus" that the lefties are running with was mentioned, and how subsequent paragraphs talked about $258 million in liabilities owed that were left out of that.

Those aren't right-wing talking points. That's just financial reality. Don't get your panties in a twist just because you don't know the difference.

 

[dnno1]

Private schools do better because they manage their resources better. The private sector will always do better than anything comparable to the public sector for that very reason. That is first and foremost why better quality students come from private schools. I guarantee you that if a private school took in just as much money as a public school was given with the exact same amount of teachers and students that the private school would do better. Why? Because the money for the public school trickles down through a BS level of bureaucracy that when it finally reaches the class room it is merely a percentage of what that private school has. A parent's choices on what they do with their children at home is a large factor for students today but that is another topic. You have to wonder why our kids keep getting dumber and dumber with these teachers getting paid more and more. I don't expect all teachers to be miracle workers and I don't want anybody to think I believe all teachers are terrible. This is all about the unions, not the teachers. Their are great teachers and bad teachers just like every industry has bad workers and good workers.

What happens when a teacher with tenure becomes complacent and doesn't do their job that well anymore? What happens when teachers go on strike because they want higher wages? There are always two sides to every coin but with your questions, that is life. That is how the world works. My mother who is a non union HR manager and pushing 50 is not guaranteed her job tomorrow. We all don't have job security. That is life. It's how the world works. No where in the constitution does it say we are guaranteed a job. No where in the constitution does it say we are guaranteed the right to collectively bargain.

Unions are corrupt, self preserving entities. They use mandatory unions dues to get politicians elected who they then sit across the table from during negotiations. That is collusion. People whine about politicians giving corporations back door deals but when it is the working class sucking us dry it's okay. I don't like unions period but at least with private sector unions there is a threat to over indulgence with your company going bankrupt. The only problems I have with them are when we bail them out for their wrong doings. With the public sector unions, the government can't go out of business. Our taxes go up. We all pay.

I do agree that some protections need to be in place but they should be available to everyone, not just public employee unions. Why are we all not given pensions? Why are we all not given job security? Why are we all not given great healthcare deals? Public employee unions should be illegal or they should have a 401k like the rest of us. They should pay the same amount for healthcare we all pay. If their pay is comparable to the private sector and they are given job security then they don't deserve a pension. They don't deserve to be paid 30 years after they retire. At one time, working for the government meant lower pay but better job security and a great retirement. Now working for the government means greater pay, better job security, and a great retirement...all at the cost of the tax payer. It is now better to work for the public sector than it is to work for the private sector. That is the death of this country.

I don't know so much about that. I went to private schools and found that it depended on the costs. The more money you paid, the better education and facilities you could find. Also, in order to cut down on costs, a good number of private schools have non-credentialed teachers. Furthermore, as far as the No Child Left Behind Act, private schools and students that are home-schooled are not required to participate in any state testing nor are ranked in any annual state report cards. This just means that it is just "buyer beware" when shopping for a private school. On the flip side, you can find just as good a school, better facilities and better qualified teacher in the public school system. You might have to move or work in a area that has a better school district, but it can be done for a lot less than the cost of a private school.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Hey, so apparently the University of Wisconsin Health specializes in going out and investigating "non-issues."

UW Health Investigates Doctors Who Wrote Sick Notes for Protestors

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_7d742504-3df2-11e0-9f0c-001cc4c03286.html

 

[The Squirrel]

Sick Notes are for grade school kids. A grown adult should be able to call in sick without a note from the Doctor. Granted though that if you call in during a national advertised protest, it's going to be pretty obvious as to what you are really doing.

 

[dnno1]

Hey, so apparently the University of Wisconsin Health specializes in going out and investigating "non-issues."

UW Health Investigates Doctors Who Wrote Sick Notes for Protestors

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_7d742504-3df2-11e0-9f0c-001cc4c03286.html

I don't know. The UW Health can say one thing, but a doctor's excuse is a doctor's excuse. It seems like the doctor in this video has seen some patients with legitimate claims for being sick:

[YT]0zmcuCoBBls[/YT]

 

[BlackLantern]

that is gross misconduct by supposed health professionals


wow

 

[Handsome Rob]

I don't know. The UW Health can say one thing, but a doctor's excuse is a doctor's excuse. It seems like the doctor in this video has seen some patients with legitimate claims for being sick:

[YT]0zmcuCoBBls[/YT]

Because it's impossible that a doctor attending a protest could be sympathetic to the protest and thus willing to hand out sick notes to his fellow protesters . . .

 

[Superman]

I took one statement, because I didn't care about what else you said.

What I placed in bold--the idea that he "gave away the surplus" with tax breaks--was a load of crap. I even linked in a previous post to the actual letter that the $121.4 million dollar "surplus" that the lefties are running with was mentioned, and how subsequent paragraphs talked about $258 million in liabilities owed that were left out of that.

Those aren't right-wing talking points. That's just financial reality. Don't get your panties in a twist just because you don't know the difference.

You just proved that you are purposely ignoring the facts of what's really going on here by saying you didn't care about the point of my post.

Again, This has NOTHING to do with money, It's all about union busting, But you just keep pushing the BS that it's about money, You're just proving my point.

Thank you.

 

[Kelly]

I have to disagree...."union busting" is simply the buzz word being used.

When looked into further, you will find that without this legislation, the individual school districts will not be able to do ANYTHING, in order to work with their budget, because with the collective bargaining as written, the individual districts will be held hostage to the unions. The state budget will be ok, but the individual districts will have the same problem that the state has right now. The collective bargaining right now pretty much gives all the chips to the unions, and none to the school boards in these districts. So, maybe the state won't get screwed, but the districts will.

I think people need to look far more into this than the talking points and buzz words being thrown around out there....

There are MANY school teachers out there that do not have these collective bargaining rights and they are doing just fine....

 

[dnno1]

Because it's impossible that a doctor attending a protest could be sympathetic to the protest and thus willing to hand out sick notes to his fellow protesters . . .

That's not true. In those types of temperatures, it is highly likely that there are people out there at any given time that have sore throats and cold symptoms. Not only that, but there are definitely people who are under some type of stress considering the fact that they may lose part of their wages and the right to collectively bargain effectively. The mere fact that there is a possibly of these consequence means that it is highly unlikely that in all cases these doctors are acting more on solidarity (which seems to be what your are implying) and more in sincerity of their practice.

 

[Kelly]

Good lord dnno1....you are not this dumb...the notes are bogus, plain and simple. Please don't insult our intelligence and try to prove otherwise....we aren't that stupid.

 

[Handsome Rob]

You just proved that you are purposely ignoring the facts of what's really going on here by saying you didn't care about the point of my post.

Again, This has NOTHING to do with money, It's all about union busting, But you just keep pushing the BS that it's about money, You're just proving my point.

Thank you.

The issue of collective bargaining rights has NOTHING to do with money?? To either side??

What's the old saying? Give a man enough rope . . .

 

[Handsome Rob]

That's not true. In those types of temperatures, it is highly likely that there are people out there at any given time that have sore throats and cold symptoms. Not only that, but there are definitely people who are under some type of stress considering the fact that they may lose part of their wages and the right to collectively bargain effectively. The mere fact that there is a possibly of these consequence means that it is highly unlikely that in all cases these doctors are acting more on solidarity (which seems to be what your are implying) and more in sincerity of their practice.

If they're well enough to go out and protest, they're well enough to go into work.

 

[dnno1]

If they're well enough to go out and protest, they're well enough to go into work.

That's not up to us to decide.

 

[dnno1]

The issue of collective bargaining rights has NOTHING to do with money?? To either side??

What's the old saying? Give a man enough rope . . .

You know what he meant. It had nothing to do with the state budget.

 

[Superman]

You know what he meant. It had nothing to do with the state budget.

Thank you.

 

[chaseter]

That's not true. In those types of temperatures, it is highly likely that there are people out there at any given time that have sore throats and cold symptoms. Not only that, but there are definitely people who are under some type of stress considering the fact that they may lose part of their wages and the right to collectively bargain effectively. The mere fact that there is a possibly of these consequence means that it is highly unlikely that in all cases these doctors are acting more on solidarity (which seems to be what your are implying) and more in sincerity of their practice.

Oh


my


goodness

 

[Marx]

OHIO GOVERNOR DEFENDS SENATE BILL 5
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/21/ohio.budget.kasich/index.html