Discussion: All Things Union

Oh Karl Rove, you sneaky little bastard, you.

Within a month the GOP base will be blaming the Unions for the economic crisis of 2008 and current recession. It will happen.
Perhaps, but when you have unions try to legally force someone to hire a 70k secretary with benefits, and he doesn't want one to boot (you know save taxpayer some money), you aren't convincing many people you didn't contribute to the fiscal and financial problem.

As BL puts it best - many are scraping by on unemployment and you are acting like spoiled brats. You are not going to get any sympathy at all.

My favorite union story is still the cookie factory from a year or two ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/real_est...kers_shudder_over_stella_doro_shuttering.html

Union wins battle, loses the WAR.

I expect more of this. Way more.
 
Perhaps, but when you have unions try to legally force someone to hire a 70k secretary with benefits, and he doesn't want one to boot (you know save taxpayer some money), you aren't convincing many people you didn't contribute to the fiscal and financial problem.

As BL puts it best - many are scraping by on unemployment and you are acting like spoiled brats. You are not going to get any sympathy at all.

My favorite union story is still the cookie factory from a year or two ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/real_est...kers_shudder_over_stella_doro_shuttering.html

Union wins battle, loses the WAR.

I expect more of this. Way more.

Ahh you can always count on man to corrupt something that was meant for good...
 
I noticed that myself....youd think, the unions would spin this to make themselves look good and they really haven't.....at all
That's probably big labor's biggest problem. The constant shooting themselves in the foot when they could easily make themselves look good.
 
Their problem is they just assume the people are going to side with them just because they say they represent 'the workers'
 
Oh snizzle...the news is going to be going crazy tomorrow. I will enjoy MSNBC tomorrow night.

This is one of the rare times when I wish I had full cable. I would love to tune in to MSNBC tonight to watch the tantrums. If only Keith Olbermann were still there . . . :csad:
 
Wisconsin GOP Strips Public Workers' Bargaining Rights

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-09-19-45-22

Interesting times, they are ahead!!
Tell me again how this is all about the budget, Tell me that it's not about busting the unions.

For over two weeks all we heard from the Right was that it's all about the budget, That "They need this bill to pass because they are broke". Even a few around here repeated that GOP talking point. They suggested that "Union Busting" was nothing but a catch phrase made up by the Left.

Well just like I've been saying all this time, And I'll repeat it again, This was never, NEVER!! about the budget and anyone who says it was is either a fool or a Right winger who believes everything Fox says.

The Right will pay for this at the voting booth, You can count on it.
 


A Year’s Worth of Pay for 30 Days of Work
Under the Green Bay School District’s collectively bargained Emeritus Program, teaches can retire and receive a year’s worth of salary for working only 30 days over a three year period. This is paid in addition to their already guaranteed pension and health care payouts.At the average annual salary for a Green Bay teacher of $51,355, this amounts to a daily rate of pay of $1,711.83, or an hourly rate of $213.98. Since most retiring teachers receive higher than average salary, these amounts are, in practice, much higher.

Source: WLUK-TV, 3/3/11

Teachers Receiving Two Pensions Due to a 1982 provision of their collective bargaining agreement, Milwaukee Public School teachers actually receive two pensions upon retirement instead of one. The contribution to the second pension is equal to 4.2% of a teacher’s salary, with the school district making 100% of the contribution, just like they do for the first pension. This extra benefit costs taxpayers more than $16 million per year.


Source: February 17, 2010 Press Release, Process of developing FY11 budget begins Milwaukee Public Schools


No Volunteer Crossing Guards Allowed


A Wausau public employee union filed a grievance to prohibit a local volunteer from serving as a school crossing guard. The 86-year-old lives just two blocks away and serves everyday free of charge.
Principal Steve Miller says, “He said, you know, this gives me a reason to get up in the morning to come and help these kids in the neighborhood.”
But for a local union that represents crossing guards, it isn’t that simple. Representatives didn’t want to go on camera but say if a crossing guard is needed, then one should be officially hired by the city.
Source: WAOW-TV, 1/27/10
$6,000 Extra for Carrying a Pager


Some state employees, due to the nature of their positions, are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours in order to respond to emergency situations. Due to the collective bargaining agreements, these employees are compensated an extra five hours of pay each week, whether they are paged or not.
For an employee earning an average salary of $50,000 per year, this requirement can cost more than $6,000 in additional compensation.
Source: 2008-09 Agreement between the State of Wisconsin and AFSCME Council 24

Arbitrator Reinstates Porn-Watching Teacher


A Cedarburg school teacher was reinstated by an arbitrator after being fired for viewing pornography on a school computer. The school district ultimately succeeded in terminating the teacher only after taking the case to the Wisconsin Supreme Court at great cost to the taxpayers.
Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/23/08
‘Outstanding First Year Teacher’ Laid Off


Milwaukee Public Schools teacher Megan Sampson was laid off less than one week after being named Outstanding First Year Teacher by the Wisconsin Council of English Teachers. She lost her job because the collective bargaining agreement requires layoffs to be made based on seniority rather than merit.
Informed that her union had rejected a lower-cost health care plan, that still would have required zero contribution from teachers, Sampson said, “Given the opportunity, of course I would switch to a different plan to save my job, or the jobs of 10 other teachers.
Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 6/14/10

Union Opposes Cost-Saving Lawn Mowing Program


As a cost cutting measure, Racine County began using county inmates to cut the grass in medians and right-of-ways at no cost to the taxpayers. A county employee union filed a grievance indicating it was the right of government workers to cut the grass, even though it would cost the taxpayers dramatically more.
Source: Racine Journal Times, 5/12/10
The $150,000 Bus Driver


In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.
“That’s the (drivers’) contract,” said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.
Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10
$150,000 Correctional Officers


Correctional Officer collective bargaining agreements allow officers a practice known as “sick leave stacking.” Officers can call in sick for a shift, receiving 8 hours of sick pay, and then are allowed to work the very next shift, earning time-and-a-half for overtime. This results in the officer receiving 2.5 times his or her rate of pay, while still only working 8 hours.
In part because of these practices, 13 correctional officers made more than $100,000 in 2009, despite earning base wages of less than $60,000 per year. The officers received an average of $66,000 in overtime pay for an average annual salary of more than $123,000 with the highest paid receiving $151,181.
Source: Department of Corrections
Previously the Governor’s office released these examples of the fiscal impact of collective bargaining:


Paid-Time off for Union Activities
In Milwaukee County alone, because the union collectively bargained for paid time off, fourteen employees receive salary and benefits for doing union business. Of the fourteen, three are on full-time release for union business. Milwaukee County spent over $170,000 in salary alone for these employees to only participate in union activities such as collective bargaining.

Surrender of Management Rights


Because of collecting bargaining, unions have included provisions in employee contracts that have a direct fiscal impact such as not allowing management to schedule workers based on operational needs and requiring notice and approval by the union prior to scheduling changes. As County Executive Walker attempted to reduce work hours based on budget pressures and workload requirements by instituting a 35 hour work week to avoid layoffs, which the union opposed. Additionally, government cannot explore privatization of functions that could save taxpayers money.



WEA Trust
Currently many school districts participate in WEA trust because WEAC collectively bargains to get as many school districts across the state to participate in this union run health insurance plan as possible. Union leadership benefits from members participating in this plan. If school districts enrolled in the state employee health plan, it would save school districts up to $68 million per year. Beyond that if school districts had the flexibility to look for health insurance coverage outside of WEA trust or the state plan, additional savings would likely be realized.


Viagra for Teachers
The Milwaukee Teachers Education Association (MTEA) tried to use a policy established by collective bargaining to obtain health insurance coverage that specifically paid for Viagra. Cost to taxpayers is $786,000 a year.
Reference: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/milwau...s-union-sues-discrimination/story?id=11378595


Unrealistic Overtime Provisions
On a state level, the Department of Corrections allows correctional workers who call in sick to collect overtime if they work a shift on the exact same day. The specific provision that allows this to happen was collectively bargained for in their contract. Cost to taxpayers $4.8 million.
 
Tell me again how this is all about the budget, Tell me that it's not about busting the unions.
It is about busting public unions.

Tell me three great things that public employee unions have done to benefit worker's rights in the past 20 years.
 
To comment on Kels post, that happens with a lot of correctional places

I have a friend, union plumber, got laid off about 2 years ago....finally got hired after leaving the union because barely anyone hires union guys anymore because they can't afford it. It even says in the job postings This is NOT a Union shop. He got tired of scraping by on unemployment.
 
Tell me again how this is all about the budget, Tell me that it's not about busting the unions.

For over two weeks all we heard from the Right was that it's all about the budget, That "They need this bill to pass because they are broke". Even a few around here repeated that GOP talking point. They suggested that "Union Busting" was nothing but a catch phrase made up by the Left.

Well just like I've been saying all this time, And I'll repeat it again, This was never, NEVER!! about the budget and anyone who says it was is either a fool or a Right winger who believes everything Fox says.

The Right will pay for this at the voting booth, You can count on it.

It isn't about 'balancing the state budget'. The Wisconsin governor is just as full of crap as the Ohio governor.
 
What good have public unions done? No one can answer that. But, it's somehow bad that they are being limited.
 
Matt gave an excellent answer to that question. You must have overlooked it.
 
From what I heard the Democrats said that they Republicans could pass any bill they wanted that didn't spend state money without the Dems having to be there, and since the Democrats haven't come back yet, they took out the finance part and went ahead and passed it. So I don't know why people are saying they didn't see this coming.
 
What good have public unions done? No one can answer that. But, it's somehow bad that they are being limited.

Once someone has trained to be a teacher or prison guard, they are essentially at the mercy of government for their employment in that field. It is a monopoly. This is why, whether you are a public of privet employee you, as an American have the right to exercise and enter freedom of contract, organize and bargain collectively rather than go at it individually.

To ask “what good have they done?” is totally irrelevant. Not only are they are within their right to do so, they also act as a check and balance to an otherwise unhealthy, monopolistic landscape where government otherwise carries on unchecked.

If this situation was so dire then why were firefighters and police officers collective bargaining rights left excluded from the bill? Are they saying it works for some but not others? How the hell does that work?

This was never about the budget. This is a calculated effort to bust all Unions by big business. If that happens you will see within a few short years. An American workforce whose rights are exclusively represented and watched over by government. A government that is 100% bought and paid for by the very corporations they are supposed to be regulating.

The kicker is that they won’t even have to watch closely. As the types of deregulation delivered will assuredly not be with the workers best interest in mind. When that happens, the precedence set by the Union work environment will no longer be there to stand as a counter or contrast to what will be, the only option left for the American worker.

At that point, when the middle class is a distant memory. The only question anybody is going to be asked is “how does that trickle down taste?”
 
WIS. ASSEMBLY VOTE DELAYED AS PROTESTORS FLOOD CAPITOL AND CREATE SCENE
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/us/11wisconsin.html?hp

What a crazy day for politics. Probably not a good for the GOP, in my opinion. Certainly worse for Muslims and public employees who face constant vilification, but still.
Yea that will show 'em. You know people on the fence. Nothing like storming in like a bunch of rowdy thugs. Gonna win support there. Stay classy unions :woot:
 
The fact remains that the larger majority of americans oppose these union busting measures. This does nothing to help the image of the GOP.
 
Yea, and the larger American public also wants to "reduce the deficit" but don't want to cut spending and/or raise taxes. The words that comes to mind is cognitive dissonance.

Krugman is right, the American public should repeal the laws of arithmetic. Yea that would do it, let's have a referendum to repeal math since it sucks. Make it illegal too, and it would totally solve our problems :awesome:

Democrats sold unions a bill goods that would never had lasted fiscally. They used them like pawns for their little short term political gains. The unions bought the short term ******** and are now going to be in a world of butt hurt. I wish I could feel bad they got used like that, but with this type of behavior... not winning points.
 
The fact remains that the larger majority of americans oppose these union busting measures. This does nothing to help the image of the GOP.

You're right that it doesn't do anything to help the GOP's image, but things like this don't help the image of unions either. In the end, labor is still the loser because while it doesn't help the GOP, it isn't hurting them either because public unions for the most part are unpopular. And it's still a while until the next election, giving the GOP plenty of time to recover (I doubt that any of these recalls are going to work).

Meanwhile labor just lost big in both Ohio and Wisconsin. And big labor continues to act like a bunch of jackasses.
 
No offense, but it really is no surprise that the Huffington Post does a story about how the enthusiasm gap for the GOP has vanished in Wisconsin. I don't think that the GOP looked good in this fight, but I don't think it's going to kill them the way some are predicting. The Huffington Post has an agenda that is as blatant as Fox News'.
 
No offense, but it really is no surprise that the Huffington Post does a story about how the enthusiasm gap for the GOP has vanished in Wisconsin. I don't think that the GOP looked good in this fight, but I don't think it's going to kill them the way some are predicting. The Huffington Post has an agenda that is as blatant as Fox News'.

You do know that the poll was conducted by a conservative Wisconsin 'think tank' right?

Even if I posted the article like this...

WISCONSIN POLL: ENTHUSIASM GAP 'VANISHES' FOR GOP
http://www.wpri.org/polls/March2011/poll0311.html

...it doesn't change the result. (HuffPo or not.)
 
And on a side note, I never thought that there really was enthusiasm for the GOP to begin with. Just like how there was no enthusiasm for Democrats except for Obama after the 2008 elections. Democrats won big in 2008 and Republicans won big in 2010 for one reason and for one reason only, the other side goofed up big time.
 

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