Discussion: All Things Union

[Kelly]

I've seen that before, but on the Washington Mall in Washington D.C. when Carter was President.....

 

[rowan sjet]

 

[chaseter]

If Glenn Beck was at that rally he would say that 18 million people showed up.

 

[Handsome Rob]

If Glenn Beck was at that rally he would say that 18 million people showed up.

True. And if it were a tea party rally, MSNBC would say that they estimated attendance to be in "the hundreds."

I do like the Scott Walker Total Recall marquee. That's pretty creative stuff.

 

[Kelly]

That is very creative, the thing is.....

The Tea Party people have been in the districts of the 3 weakest Democrats that left town and have begun the recall process for over 3 weeks now...I have a feeling there is a far better chance at least one of those recalls will go through.


It seems that the Tea Party people see that winning small battles will lead to the winning of the war, whereas the unions are storming the fortress....lol

 

[rowan sjet]

If Glenn Beck was at that rally he would say that 18 million people showed up.

True. And if it were a tea party rally, MSNBC would say that they estimated attendance to be in "the hundreds."

85,000 at peak according to MPD estimates, and that's without accounting for people coming and going.

I do like the Scott Walker Total Recall marquee. That's pretty creative stuff.

That is very creative, the thing is.....

The Tea Party people have been in the districts of the 3 weakest Democrats that left town and have begun the recall process for over 3 weeks now...I have a feeling there is a far better chance at least one of those recalls will go through.

It seems that the Tea Party people see that winning small battles will lead to the winning of the war, whereas the unions are storming the fortress....lol

Walker can't be recalled until next year anyway. From what I've read elsewhere though, from one of the protestors, what they are planning in the meantime is to vote out Wisconsin Supreme Court Republican Judge David Prosser who's a Walker supporter, among other things. That election will be in April. They are also gathering signatures on petitions to recall 8 Republican State senators who are eligible. The deadline for those petitions is May 2nd, and there's a 6 week certification period following that. So in July, if the petitions are successful, there will be recall elections. I'm told only 6 of those 8 (Kapanke, Hopper, Darling, Harsdorf, Olsen, Cowles) have a strong to possible chance as the other 2 (Grotham, Lazich) are in heavily republican districts.

 

[chaseter]

If the people truly hate what has been done in Wisconsin then it will be repealed. The wonders of Democracy. My guess is it won't happen any time soon.

 

[Kelly]

Well, they better start getting those signatures quick....I just don't see it happening, but they have every right to do so....

 

[hippie_hunter]

They are really going to go after a judge who has nothing to do with this whole thing? Last time I checked, when you overreach, it tends to fail.

 

[chaseter]

Well this is pretty sad:
http://www.educationnews.org/ednews_today/92937.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576190260787805984.html

 

[Kelly]

Yeah, let's fire the "good teachers"....lol, the stupidity in all of this makes me want to scream....WTF, is wrong with these people.

 

[chaseter]

Union motto: last hired, first fired.

 

[Kelly]

Well, most schools will do that....which is totally stupid to me. They could very well be firing the teachers that are the most passionate, have the most energy, and relate to the students better than the 35 year teacher that hasn't stood up from their desk in the last 30 years....

All I know is if they even think about letting my 4 year teachers go, and keeping the 30 year teacher that is ready to retire but wants to teach 3 more years to pad their retirement....oh hell no....I will fight dirty on that one.

 

[Obsidian]

A classmate of mine from university got her pink slip and she's just in her first year of teaching.

 

[Kelly]

Many first year teachers will be getting their pink slips. That is sad, IMO, you give incentives to 30 year teachers to go ahead and retire.

 

[Superman]

Conservatives: We Are Being Outworked And Out-Organized In Wisconsin Recall Campaigns

WASHINGTON -- Both national and Wisconsin-based Republican operatives tell the Huffington Post the party is being dramatically outworked and out-organized by Democrats in the recall campaigns being launched against state Senators.

The operatives, who raised their concerns out of hope it would jar the GOP into assertiveness, argue complacency has taken over after Governor Scott Walker successfully shepherded his anti-collective bargaining bill into law. While the Wisconsin Democratic Party, with major assists from progressive groups and unions, has harnessed resentment towards the governor into a full-throttled effort to recall eight GOP Senators, neither the enthusiasm nor organizational acumen exists on the Republican side of the aisle.

“It's clear that Democrats and liberal organizations are engaging in an attempt to make recall more than a mere hypothetical possibility for some Wisconsin Republicans,” said Liz Mair, Vice President of Hynes Communications and former RNC Online Communications Director, who has worked closely with officials on the ground in Wisconsin. “Even though Governor Walker acted to end the impasse, Republicans and conservatives should not be acting like this is done and dusted.”

A conservative activist working inside the state on recall efforts was even more explicitly distraught. The Wisconsin Republican Party, the operative said, was not lending resources to the recall campaign groups had launched against Democratic Senators, in turn causing those groups to narrow their target list down from eight lawmakers to just three.

“It would be nice if the Republican Party, operatives, etc, would step in with a little money,” said the activist, who asked to remain nameless less he draw the GOP even further away from the recall effort. “But they are talking about doing radio and I’m not sure that gets you signatures.”

“Sure, the first battle was won with the passing of the bill,” the activist added, “but the war is not won. If they come in and recall some of those state senators and none of the Democrats get knocked out, that’s not good for the republicans at all…it is a bit of a mystery to me. You would think they would want to make sure all these [recall] efforts are successful.”

The data bears out the notion of a disparity. Reid Magney, a spokesman for the non-partisan Wisconsin Government Accountability Board, described the recall efforts by Democrats against Republican state Senators as more organized than their counterparts. Whereas GOP-run recalls registered at different times and originated from a random spattering of groups--a Utah-based conservative organization was forced to find a partner inside Wisconsin to make its petitions legally acceptable--all of the Democratic activity has run through the state party.

“The recalls of Republicans [launched by Democrats] all came in on the same day, they are all organized by the same people, which is the Democratic party of Wisconsin. It’s not on the docs but it doesn’t have to be. The PO box is all the same,” said Magney. "The state GOP is not involved in the same way.”

The funding differences, it appears, are even more drastic than the organizational. While Mair pleaded for conservative groups to “raise and spend money in order ensure that those who pushed reform through aren't turfed out,” Democratic organizations claim to be swimming in a historic pool of funds.

Democracy for America, the group started by Howard Dean following his failed 2004 election, said it has raised nearly $800,000 to run ads and help with the recall campaign, which communications director Levana Layendecker described as “unprecedented for a non-election year issue.” In addition, 2,500 volunteers have signed up with DFA to help gather signatures. The group, with 25,000 members in Wisconsin alone, expects that number to only grow.

The Progressive Change Campaign Committee, along with DFA, is pouring massive resources into an ad campaign to keep momentum behind the recall efforts. Their efforts include a new spot focusing on three GOP state senators (Alberta Darling, Dan Kapanke and Randy Hopper).

Union groups, while legally prohibited from working with the Democratic Party on the recount, have still pushed to keep the issue front and center, as have a host of other progressive institutions.

“I think that the governor really did wake a sleeping giant,” said Justin Ruben, Executive Director of MoveOn.org. “People feel that what happened was not just a horrible attack but the courage of regular people standing up and getting in the way. That was what electrified folks. It was the first time we had seen anything like that.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16/conservatives-we-are-bein_n_836794.html?fbwall


I said all this union busting was going to bite the Repubs on the ass before it was over and it looks like I might be right.

Go Union.t:

 

[Marx]

Union motto: last hired, first fired.

That is true with any job...not just union ones chase.

Many first year teachers will be getting their pink slips. That is sad, IMO, you give incentives to 30 year teachers to go ahead and retire.

I'd agree with that.

 

[chaseter]

Not really. It's about performance. If I am making more money as a sales associate than someone who has been there for 20 years, they don't fire me. That is how things are supposed to work. People who have been there for 20 years should be scared of new people coming in because that increases quality and efficiency. It makes everyone perform better. With unions, it's the exact opposite.

 

[Kelly]

Not really. It's about performance. If I am making more money as a sales associate than someone who has been there for 20 years, they don't fire me. That is how things are supposed to work. People who have been there for 20 years should be scared of new people coming in because that increases quality and efficiency. It makes everyone perform better. With unions, it's the exact opposite.

That is the education system as a whole....even in "right to work" states...

 

[chaseter]

Which is why I think our education system needs to be merit based.

 

[Kelly]

Oh I agree, but the unions WILL NOT allow that to ever happen.

 

[Kelly]

Conservatives: We Are Being Outworked And Out-Organized In Wisconsin Recall Campaigns

WASHINGTON -- Both national and Wisconsin-based Republican operatives tell the Huffington Post the party is being dramatically outworked and out-organized by Democrats in the recall campaigns being launched against state Senators.

The operatives, who raised their concerns out of hope it would jar the GOP into assertiveness, argue complacency has taken over after Governor Scott Walker successfully shepherded his anti-collective bargaining bill into law. While the Wisconsin Democratic Party, with major assists from progressive groups and unions, has harnessed resentment towards the governor into a full-throttled effort to recall eight GOP Senators, neither the enthusiasm nor organizational acumen exists on the Republican side of the aisle.

“It's clear that Democrats and liberal organizations are engaging in an attempt to make recall more than a mere hypothetical possibility for some Wisconsin Republicans,” said Liz Mair, Vice President of Hynes Communications and former RNC Online Communications Director, who has worked closely with officials on the ground in Wisconsin. “Even though Governor Walker acted to end the impasse, Republicans and conservatives should not be acting like this is done and dusted.”

A conservative activist working inside the state on recall efforts was even more explicitly distraught. The Wisconsin Republican Party, the operative said, was not lending resources to the recall campaign groups had launched against Democratic Senators, in turn causing those groups to narrow their target list down from eight lawmakers to just three.

“It would be nice if the Republican Party, operatives, etc, would step in with a little money,” said the activist, who asked to remain nameless less he draw the GOP even further away from the recall effort. “But they are talking about doing radio and I’m not sure that gets you signatures.”

“Sure, the first battle was won with the passing of the bill,” the activist added, “but the war is not won. If they come in and recall some of those state senators and none of the Democrats get knocked out, that’s not good for the republicans at all…it is a bit of a mystery to me. You would think they would want to make sure all these [recall] efforts are successful.”

The data bears out the notion of a disparity. Reid Magney, a spokesman for the non-partisan Wisconsin Government Accountability Board, described the recall efforts by Democrats against Republican state Senators as more organized than their counterparts. Whereas GOP-run recalls registered at different times and originated from a random spattering of groups--a Utah-based conservative organization was forced to find a partner inside Wisconsin to make its petitions legally acceptable--all of the Democratic activity has run through the state party.

“The recalls of Republicans [launched by Democrats] all came in on the same day, they are all organized by the same people, which is the Democratic party of Wisconsin. It’s not on the docs but it doesn’t have to be. The PO box is all the same,” said Magney. "The state GOP is not involved in the same way.”

The funding differences, it appears, are even more drastic than the organizational. While Mair pleaded for conservative groups to “raise and spend money in order ensure that those who pushed reform through aren't turfed out,” Democratic organizations claim to be swimming in a historic pool of funds.

Democracy for America, the group started by Howard Dean following his failed 2004 election, said it has raised nearly $800,000 to run ads and help with the recall campaign, which communications director Levana Layendecker described as “unprecedented for a non-election year issue.” In addition, 2,500 volunteers have signed up with DFA to help gather signatures. The group, with 25,000 members in Wisconsin alone, expects that number to only grow.

The Progressive Change Campaign Committee, along with DFA, is pouring massive resources into an ad campaign to keep momentum behind the recall efforts. Their efforts include a new spot focusing on three GOP state senators (Alberta Darling, Dan Kapanke and Randy Hopper).

Union groups, while legally prohibited from working with the Democratic Party on the recount, have still pushed to keep the issue front and center, as have a host of other progressive institutions.

“I think that the governor really did wake a sleeping giant,” said Justin Ruben, Executive Director of MoveOn.org. “People feel that what happened was not just a horrible attack but the courage of regular people standing up and getting in the way. That was what electrified folks. It was the first time we had seen anything like that.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16/conservatives-we-are-bein_n_836794.html?fbwall


I said all this union busting was going to bite the Repubs on the ass before it was over and it looks like I might be right.

Go Union.t:

Why is it surprising to these people that the Unions have more money than a state party coffers?

The unions have always been well organized in these situations, and quite the bully when the opposition has rallies, so none of the above is really surprising. They are always up for a good fight....that is what they do best.

 

[chaseter]

I sure see a lot of white people in those Wisconsin unions photos. Racists?

 

[Kelly]

Scandinavian....lmao.

 

[BlackLantern]

eh...people are still out of work and seeing people with jobs refusing to work