Discussion: Gay Rights III

[Kelly]

To be fair, the straight community has done far more damage to the institution of marriage than any gay couple ever could.

True...but then again, they've been at it longer....

 

[lixdexia]

Male right to determine abortion: Unlike all the other situations, there's literally no physical way for this to be a genderless issue. Now, if the woman doesn't want the baby, and the guy does, then he can try to convince her to have the baby, so that, once it's born, he can take full and sole custody and responsibility for it, and she can just walk away.

i'd be cool with this, but if the mother can just walk away from any responsibility to the child the father should have that option also.

 

[Paradoxium]

To be fair, the straight community has done far more damage to the institution of marriage than any gay couple ever could.

I always ask why do gays want to purposely suffer through a marriage for this reason alone. t:

 

[SentinelMind]

So you completely ignored when I said you have an argument that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to gay marriage?

I fail to see where I once mentioned the 14th Amendment, much less using it as an argument, other than that one line where I say it might not apply, but the 1st Amendment does.

Ok, well I don't agree with your first amendment argument...that's like saying I have a constitutional right to run around naked because its in my religion. We have to be careful where to draw boundaries. I think the first amendment means government leaves the religious institutions alone, not that they must cater to their every demand.

But let's look each of those 'inevitable' examples:

Unixex bathrooms: Guess what, some places have them.

but must they be everywhere? Even gyms?

 

[Paradoxium]

Its not about gays per say, but anyone watch Blue Valentine. Perfect movie showing the disintegration of modern marriage.

 

[Violet Lantern]

The problem is that to legitimize gay marriage, you have to implicitly mock or degrade the institution of marriage within your rhetoric ("these two straight who don't love each other are married..........divorce rate is so high, what's so special about marriage,etc"). It's quite ironic how supporters are oblivious to their own demeaning rhetoric, that marriage ain't all that special, so let gays get married.

Speaking for myself, that's why I don't use that (frankly way over used) argument.

thanks for sharing that marx. i hope it brings you a little more peace and the courage to be more open in your "real" life

Agreed.

I feel honored that he chose to share that with us. Best of luck to you in dealing with this personal issue in your life, Marx.

 

[Marx]

I always ask why do gays want to purposely suffer through a marriage for this reason alone. t:

I just want to be an equal in this country.

I cannot believe this, or respect it.......*disgusted look*

BTW, I've already told you my thoughts, and my support was there before, and will continue to be there for you.

thanks for sharing that marx. i hope it brings you a little more peace and the courage to be more open in your "real" life

Agreed.

I feel honored that he chose to share that with us. Best of luck to you in dealing with this personal issue in your life, Marx.

My sincerest thanks to each of you!

 

[wiegeabo]

Ok, well I don't agree with your first amendment argument...that's like saying I have a constitutional right to run around naked because its in my religion. We have to be careful where to draw boundaries. I think the first amendment means government leaves the religious institutions alone, not that they must cater to their every demand.

So...denying a churches right to perform gay marriage is leaving them alone?

I don't believe government has the right to force churches to perform gay marriage. I also don't believe they have the right to deny it. It should be the churches choice.

I don't see how it can be compared to running around naked. Gay marriage is something private between the individuals, and the friends and family they choose to include. Running around naked in public is totally different. I guess if they wanted to do it within the confines of their church...

but must they be everywhere? Even gyms?

Here's the thing. The government can't take someone's rights away. But people can voluntarily give them up. If we have the right to unisex bathrooms, it doesn't mean we have to have them or use them.

If a gym wants to have a unisex bathroom, fine. If no one wants to use the gym because of it and they go out of business, or are forced to split the bathroom, that's fine too.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It took guts Marx, proud of you man.

 

[Schlosser85]

Marx:

I am so proud of you

 

[Marx]

Thank you guys. Your support means more than you know!

 

[wiegeabo]

The problem is that to legitimize gay marriage, you have to implicitly mock or degrade the institution of marriage within your rhetoric ("these two straight who don't love each other are married..........divorce rate is so high, what's so special about marriage,etc"). It's quite ironic how supporters are oblivious to their own demeaning rhetoric, that marriage ain't all that special, so let gays get married.

Your concession that incest and polygamy, two institutions notorious for child abuse, has to be allowed under this whimsy equal protections clause argument, shows that whimsy unfounded legal arguments can create a dangerous environment for our treasured institutions. Marriage is given lots privileges because of implicit understanding that its the best institution to raise children, to provide a bedrock for next generation of society. One parent households have notorious correlation towards crime, poverty, deliquency, you name it. So I think its important for our country to be able to protect our institutions and traditions so that our culture doesn't go down the toilet. When that institution is gone, nothing can really hold society together if we're having all sorts of weird legal relationships and calling them marriage...where marriage has no meaning anymore.

The same things were said about interracial marriages. That they would destroy the foundation of marriage, and the bedrock of society.

Frankly, I fail to see how. If anything is going to destroy marriage, it's not gays getting married. It's divorce. It's straight people who either had no business getting married, no business staying married, or don't put enough work into their marriage. It's also the growing number of people that are realizing you don't necessarily have to be married to successfully raise a family. Even if it were true that straight, married couples raised successful families more often, that means other couples or single parents don't even get the chance to try? Despite the successes those 'non-traditional' families have had?

Gays have been part of our culture since we've had culture. Gays have been contributing to science, technology, and art for as long as anyone else. We've likely had at least one (closeted) gay president already. Gay marriage won't destroy our culture. It'll just add something else to it, and get absorbed into it like anything else that's new.

 

[StorminNorman]

I have been planning to make this post for quite a while now. I apologize if it comes off as rambling, but it is something that I need to say for my own mental well-being.

I am steadily approaching my three year anniversary here at the Hype. In my time here, I have had the pleasure and honor of getting to know quite alot of you...and calling many of you my friends. I also pride myself on being as centrist and objective as I possibly can. I have tried very hard to keep alot of my personal information private. There is nothing I hate more than being dismissed in an argument or topic because of something someone knows about me.

That being said, I've come to a point in my life where I feel like I need to completely be myself. What I have decided to tell you is what some of you have probably suspected for quite some time now...I am a gay man. As a few of you know, my older brother (who is also gay), was nearly killed in an attempted carjacking this past fall. His accident really, really shook me...and made me realize just how fragile life is.

Being gay is an incredibly difficult struggle. I never asked to be gay. I never wanted to be gay. I never chose to be gay. The only decision I have ever had is how long to hide it. This is a struggle that I have had to deal with for a very long time. I struggle with it to this day. The amount of shame and guilt I have had over this has beaten me down more than you can imagine.

I am not completely out in my real life. The majority of the ones I love do know. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to gather the courage to tell my parents or two of my siblings. My mother and youngest brother probably know and would not have a problem with it. My oldest sister, however, is a hardcore bible-thumper. My father, is one of those people who believe that 'being gay is a conscious choice you make to screw up your life'. There is not much worse than having a sister and father speak so harshly against something that you cannot change.

I am a sports nut. I love rock music. I love cars. I love hiking and being outdoors. I cannot stand Cher. I cannot stand Liza Minelli. I do not wear body glitter or talk with a lisp. I do not wear a pride flag on my sleeve. Being gay is not something that defines me. It is a part of me. I am your average, everyday guy. It just so happens that I am attracted to men.

I sincerely hope that my confession has not caused any of you call my objectivity into question. I just respect you all enough to let you know the truth.

Well done, mate.

 

[SentinelMind]

I have been planning to make this post for quite a while now. I apologize if it comes off as rambling, but it is something that I need to say for my own mental well-being.

I am steadily approaching my three year anniversary here at the Hype. In my time here, I have had the pleasure and honor of getting to know quite alot of you...and calling many of you my friends. I also pride myself on being as centrist and objective as I possibly can. I have tried very hard to keep alot of my personal information private. There is nothing I hate more than being dismissed in an argument or topic because of something someone knows about me.

That being said, I've come to a point in my life where I feel like I need to completely be myself. What I have decided to tell you is what some of you have probably suspected for quite some time now...I am a gay man. As a few of you know, my older brother (who is also gay), was nearly killed in an attempted carjacking this past fall. His accident really, really shook me...and made me realize just how fragile life is.

Being gay is an incredibly difficult struggle. I never asked to be gay. I never wanted to be gay. I never chose to be gay. The only decision I have ever had is how long to hide it. This is a struggle that I have had to deal with for a very long time. I struggle with it to this day. The amount of shame and guilt I have had over this has beaten me down more than you can imagine.

I am not completely out in my real life. The majority of the ones I love do know. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to gather the courage to tell my parents or two of my siblings. My mother and youngest brother probably know and would not have a problem with it. My oldest sister, however, is a hardcore bible-thumper. My father, is one of those people who believe that 'being gay is a conscious choice you make to screw up your life'. There is not much worse than having a sister and father speak so harshly against something that you cannot change.

I am a sports nut. I love rock music. I love cars. I love hiking and being outdoors. I cannot stand Cher. I cannot stand Liza Minelli. I do not wear body glitter or talk with a lisp. I do not wear a pride flag on my sleeve. Being gay is not something that defines me. It is a part of me. I am your average, everyday guy. It just so happens that I am attracted to men.

I sincerely hope that my confession has not caused any of you call my objectivity into question. I just respect you all enough to let you know the truth.

I appreciate you being forthcoming and open as to who you are. I've always felt you've been a fair, consistent mod whom I respect and have never questioned your objectivity or integrity.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I have been planning to make this post for quite a while now. I apologize if it comes off as rambling, but it is something that I need to say for my own mental well-being.

I am steadily approaching my three year anniversary here at the Hype. In my time here, I have had the pleasure and honor of getting to know quite alot of you...and calling many of you my friends. I also pride myself on being as centrist and objective as I possibly can. I have tried very hard to keep alot of my personal information private. There is nothing I hate more than being dismissed in an argument or topic because of something someone knows about me.

That being said, I've come to a point in my life where I feel like I need to completely be myself. What I have decided to tell you is what some of you have probably suspected for quite some time now...I am a gay man. As a few of you know, my older brother (who is also gay), was nearly killed in an attempted carjacking this past fall. His accident really, really shook me...and made me realize just how fragile life is.

Being gay is an incredibly difficult struggle. I never asked to be gay. I never wanted to be gay. I never chose to be gay. The only decision I have ever had is how long to hide it. This is a struggle that I have had to deal with for a very long time. I struggle with it to this day. The amount of shame and guilt I have had over this has beaten me down more than you can imagine.

I am not completely out in my real life. The majority of the ones I love do know. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to gather the courage to tell my parents or two of my siblings. My mother and youngest brother probably know and would not have a problem with it. My oldest sister, however, is a hardcore bible-thumper. My father, is one of those people who believe that 'being gay is a conscious choice you make to screw up your life'. There is not much worse than having a sister and father speak so harshly against something that you cannot change.

I am a sports nut. I love rock music. I love cars. I love hiking and being outdoors. I cannot stand Cher. I cannot stand Liza Minelli. I do not wear body glitter or talk with a lisp. I do not wear a pride flag on my sleeve. Being gay is not something that defines me. It is a part of me. I am your average, everyday guy. It just so happens that I am attracted to men.

I sincerely hope that my confession has not caused any of you call my objectivity into question. I just respect you all enough to let you know the truth.

*breathes a sigh of relief*

I believe I was the first who was privileged to know this years ago (and has patiently kept it quiet for all this time), and all I can say is...WOW. I'm glad you've finally worked your way up to this point and release this burden. Feels good doesn't it?

Words can't express how particularly proud I am right now of you.

 

[Marx]

Well done, mate.

I appreciate you being forthcoming and open as to who you are. I've always felt you've been a fair, consistent mod whom I respect and have never questioned your objectivity or integrity.

Thank you both.

*breathes a sigh of relief*

I believe I was the first who was privileged to know this years ago (and has patiently kept it quiet for all this time), and all I can say is...WOW. I'm glad you've finally worked your way up to this point and release this burden. Feels good doesn't it?

Words can't express how particularly proud I am right now of you.

You were the very first to know man. I appreciate you keeping my secret for so long! My stomach has been in knots all day today, but it's something I had to do. I honestly feel very liberated.

You've always been incredibly kind to me. I am so happy that you commented on this.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

You were the very first to know man. I appreciate you keeping my secret for so long!

Thank you for trusting me with it. I must say I'm glad I'm no longer the only Gay Mod of the Hype now.

I appreciate the way you released your story. I didn't really make a "formal" announcement like this. I just talked about the fact that I got attacked in a public restroom and it just...came out to the masses that way. At least, I think that was the way it came out.

My stomach has been in knots all day today

Aww, why?

I'll tell you now--as I told you then years ago--your heart will not stop beating in your chest over releasing the truth about yourself. And see, you're still breathing for another day.

You've always been incredibly kind to me. I am so happy that you commented on this.

Of course! You know I'm not going to miss making an appearance at your Hype Coming Out Party. LOL No seriously, I am speechless with happiness over your decision to do this. Enjoy the freedom bro.

 

[JP]

Oh, Marx. Forever and always my favorite.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Thank you guys. Your support means more than you know!

well said Marx, next time i go back home to ohio, i shall buy you a celebratory drink! *cheers*

 

[Schlosser85]

I do have to say Marx, and LS may well feel the same way, while I appreciate that you trusted me with your secret, I'm happy that I don't have to keep it anymore. For you, moreso than me

 

[Pink Ranger]

Thank you guys. Your support means more than you know!

I feel honoured and privileged that you chose to share this with us in this forum. Godspeed on the rest of your journey.

PS: A little body glitter now and then is a good thing, just don't take it internally. Trust me, it won't end well.

 

[Marx]

Oh, Marx. Forever and always my favorite.

well said Marx, next time i go back home to ohio, i shall buy you a celebratory drink! *cheers*

I do have to say Marx, and LS may well feel the same way, while I appreciate that you trusted me with your secret, I'm happy that I don't have to keep it anymore. For you, moreso than me

I'm happy that you don't either man. Everything is out on the table, and it feels great!

I feel honoured and privileged that you chose to share this with us in this forum. Godspeed on the rest of your journey.

PS: A little body glitter now and then is a good thing, just don't take it internally. Trust me, it won't end well.

Thank you Pink. That really means alot.

I'm not the body glitter type. The only makeup I've ever worn was on Halloween.

 

[Schlosser85]

Pssh, and you call yourself a gay man (I kid, I kid)

 

[Marx]

Pssh, and you call yourself a gay man (I kid, I kid)

 

[Pink Ranger]

You want to talk about busting stereotypes? Back in Vancouver, I used to know some guys who belonged to a gay custom and classic car club. What's the world coming to ...