Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

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Come on SupermanBeyond, why are you so against believing in a phenomon taking place in a time where the Nortwest Passage is open for the first time in recorded history?
I believe that IF there is Global Warming, it is a natural occurance. The glaciers from the last Ice Age from 10,000 years ago melted. Is that Human's fault or did was that natural?
 
I believe that IF there is Global Warming, it is a natural occurance. The glaciers from the last Ice Age from 10,000 years ago melted. Is that Human's fault or did was that natural?
Oh, I don't believe that the glaciers from the last ice age have melted.
 
I believe that IF there is Global Warming, it is a natural occurance. The glaciers from the last Ice Age from 10,000 years ago melted. Is that Human's fault or did was that natural?

but you don't get it.
it's not about belief , it's about scientific fact.
 
Yes, it is a natural process, BUT, we don't have to contribute to it. Earthquakes are natural, but we don't go around blowing up fault lines.
 
the wiki page is pretty comprehensive and even handed.
Yeah, I always trust Wikipedia.
Penny_Arcade_comic-20051216h.jpg
 
Maybe something like this:

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html

It was written by Dr. Oleg Sorokhtin, Merited Scientist of Russia and fellow of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences and a staff researcher of the Oceanology Institute:

Stock up on fur coats and felt boots! This is my paradoxical advice to the warm world.

Earth is now at the peak of one of its passing warm spells. It started in the 17th century when there was no industrial influence on the climate to speak of and no such thing as the hothouse effect. The current warming is evidently a natural process and utterly independent of hothouse gases.

The real reasons for climate changes are uneven solar radiation, terrestrial precession (that is, axis gyration), instability of oceanic currents, regular salinity fluctuations of the Arctic Ocean surface waters, etc. There is another, principal reason—solar activity and luminosity. The greater they are the warmer is our climate.

Astrophysics knows two solar activity cycles, of 11 and 200 years. Both are caused by changes in the radius and area of the irradiating solar surface. The latest data, obtained by Habibullah Abdusamatov, head of the Pulkovo Observatory space research laboratory, say that Earth has passed the peak of its warmer period, and a fairly cold spell will set in quite soon, by 2012. Real cold will come when solar activity reaches its minimum, by 2041, and will last for 50-60 years or even longer.

This is my point, which environmentalists hotly dispute as they cling to the hothouse theory. As we know, hothouse gases, in particular, nitrogen peroxide, warm up the atmosphere by keeping heat close to the ground. Advanced in the late 19th century by Svante A. Arrhenius, a Swedish physical chemist and Nobel Prize winner, this theory is taken for granted to this day and has not undergone any serious check.

It determines decisions and instruments of major international organizations—in particular, the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. Signed by 150 countries, it exemplifies the impact of scientific delusion on big politics and economics. The authors and enthusiasts of the Kyoto Protocol based their assumptions on an erroneous idea. As a result, developed countries waste huge amounts of money to fight industrial pollution of the atmosphere. What if it is a Don Quixote’s duel with the windmill?

Hothouse gases may not be to blame for global warming. At any rate, there is no scientific evidence to their guilt. The classic hothouse effect scenario is too simple to be true. As things really are, much more sophisticated processes are on in the atmosphere, especially in its dense layer. For instance, heat is not so much radiated in space as carried by air currents—an entirely different mechanism, which cannot cause global warming.

The temperature of the troposphere, the lowest and densest portion of the atmosphere, does not depend on the concentration of greenhouse gas emissions—a point proved theoretically and empirically. True, probes of Antarctic ice shield, taken with bore specimens in the vicinity of the Russian research station Vostok, show that there are close links between atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide and temperature changes. Here, however, we cannot be quite sure which is the cause and which the effect.

Temperature fluctuations always run somewhat ahead of carbon dioxide concentration changes. This means that warming is primary. The ocean is the greatest carbon dioxide depository, with concentrations 60-90 times larger than in the atmosphere. When the ocean’s surface warms up, it produces the “champagne effect.” Compare a foamy spurt out of a warm bottle with wine pouring smoothly when served properly cold.

Likewise, warm ocean water exudes greater amounts of carbonic acid, which evaporates to add to industrial pollution—a factor we cannot deny. However, man-caused pollution is negligible here. If industrial pollution with carbon dioxide keeps at its present-day 5-7 billion metric tons a year, it will not change global temperatures up to the year 2100. The change will be too small for humans to feel even if the concentration of greenhouse gas emissions doubles.

Carbon dioxide cannot be bad for the climate. On the contrary, it is food for plants, and so is beneficial to life on Earth. Bearing out this point was the Green Revolution—the phenomenal global increase in farm yields in the mid-20th century. Numerous experiments also prove a direct proportion between harvest and carbon dioxide concentration in the air.

Carbon dioxide has quite a different pernicious influence—not on the climate but on synoptic activity. It absorbs infrared radiation. When tropospheric air is warm enough for complete absorption, radiation energy passes into gas fluctuations. Gas expands and dissolves to send warm air up to the stratosphere, where it clashes with cold currents coming down. With no noticeable temperature changes, synoptic activity skyrockets to whip up cyclones and anticyclones. Hence we get hurricanes, storms, tornados and other natural disasters, whose intensity largely depends on carbon dioxide concentration. In this sense, reducing its concentration in the air will have a positive effect.

Carbon dioxide is not to blame for global climate change. Solar activity is many times more powerful than the energy produced by the whole of humankind. Man’s influence on nature is a drop in the ocean.


Earth is unlikely to ever face a temperature disaster. Of all the planets in the solar system, only Earth has an atmosphere beneficial to life. There are many factors that account for development of life on Earth: Sun is a calm star, Earth is located an optimum distance from it, it has the Moon as a massive satellite, and many others. Earth owes its friendly climate also to dynamic feedback between biotic and atmospheric evolution.

The principal among those diverse links is Earth’s reflective power, which regulates its temperature. A warm period, as the present, increases oceanic evaporation to produce a great amount of clouds, which filter solar radiation and so bring heat down. Things take the contrary turn in a cold period.

What can’t be cured must be endured. It is wise to accept the natural course of things. We have no reason to panic about allegations that ice in the Arctic Ocean is thawing rapidly and will soon vanish altogether. As it really is, scientists say the Arctic and Antarctic ice shields are growing. Physical and mathematical calculations predict a new Ice Age. It will come in 100,000 years, at the earliest, and will be much worse than the previous. Europe will be ice-bound, with glaciers reaching south of Moscow.

Meanwhile, Europeans can rest assured. The Gulf Stream will change its course only if some evil magic robs it of power to reach the north—but Mother Nature is unlikely to do that.
 
The problem is that due to the Kyoto Protocol many places in Africa are being forced to use solar and wind power which is very inefficient even for people in a place like America with a good existing structure. There are allot of natural resources in Africa including oil but they are being forced to use inferior but cleaner forms of energy. Even if they where to cover their roofs in solar panels (which would be very expensive) they still wouldn't have anywhere near the power a small medical facility would need.


If global warming is real it should be first world countries that have already gone through this phase that should be making the big cuts on emissions. Not those that have been clean for the last few hundred years.

If global warming isn't real then the big guys are staying on top and the little guys are being kept down. Can you not see the potential for political motivation? Politically favored ideas get grants, scientists like grants. Could they be bending the truth to get funding? Seems more likely than the opposite.


Personally I'm not a scientist so I don't know anything for sure but in my opinion it makes a lot more sense that global warming is caused by Earth moving away from sunspots (magnetic fields on the surface of the sun which make it relatively colder. Also the cause of ice ages) rather than anything we do.

The world is warming so do we blame some smoke or the GIANT BALL HYDROGEN IN THE SKY!
 
but you don't get it.
it's not about belief , it's about scientific fact.
It isn't scientific fact.

Look, Fish-Bulb, you know I like you. But the truth is that There is not enough evidence on Global Warming for it to be considered "Fact". There are equal amounts of data on both sides of the issue. I'm not saying we don't need to clean up. I'm just saying Global Warming isn't the reason we need to clean up.

It's kinda like "Evolution". Technically it's not a law, or a fact. it's, scientifically speaking, a Theory. Which is a lot more firm and substantiated than they layman would realize, but it can't be called a "fact".
 
It isn't scientific fact.

Look, Fish-Bulb, you know I like you. But the truth is that There is not enough evidence on Global Warming for it to be considered "Fact". There are equal amounts of data on both sides of the issue. I'm not saying we don't need to clean up. I'm just saying Global Warming isn't the reason we need to clean up.

It's kinda like "Evolution". Technically it's not a law, or a fact. it's, scientifically speaking, a Theory. Which is a lot more firm and substantiated than they layman would realize, but it can't be called a "fact".

Which brings me back to the media. They treat it as fact and will constantly say on air to the nation that it is happening and that it is fact.......
 
Which brings me back to the media. They treat it as fact and will constantly say on air to the nation that it is happening and that it is fact.......
Especially Media ****e Gore... I'm sorry, I couldn't resist that rhyme.

The movie was sensationalistic and horribly biased. They might as well have said "Global Warming will come into your home and rape your mother."
 
Especially Media ****e Gore... I'm sorry, I couldn't resist that rhyme.

The movie was sensationalistic and horribly biased. They might as well have said "Global Warming will come into your home and rape your mother."

Well I can not say I have seen that film but I can understand the point you make.

Team America ate my baby.

It seems to controling, too forced.
 
It isn't scientific fact.

Look, Fish-Bulb, you know I like you. But the truth is that There is not enough evidence on Global Warming for it to be considered "Fact". There are equal amounts of data on both sides of the issue. I'm not saying we don't need to clean up. I'm just saying Global Warming isn't the reason we need to clean up.

It's kinda like "Evolution". Technically it's not a law, or a fact. it's, scientifically speaking, a Theory. Which is a lot more firm and substantiated than they layman would realize, but it can't be called a "fact".

but see that's the problem, there aren't "equal amounts of data" by any stretch of the imagination.
a good example is the "OMG! 400 scientists said it's not true!!!!:wow::wow::wow:" but the thing is, they are a rather small ( comparatively) section of the scientific community. there has been some instances in which the supposed counter argument is discredited by the scientist they are quoting .
and sure, they have called evidence of climate change "unequivocal" as early as a year ago, and the much fabled "400" being explained like a year before they came out.

As of November 10, 2006 we know that there is a minimum (no official count of foreign climatologists is available) of 20,000 working climatologists worldwide 1,2. An important fact to remember is that many high profile critics you see in the news do not qualify as climate scientists when these standards are applied. Keep both of these concepts in mind the next time you see a handful of self proclaiming "climate scientists" with dissenting opinions. It is also important to note that Exxon Mobil is funding a $10,000 bounty for climate denialists and skeptics. If only 2% of the 20,000 climatologists were bought out then we'd have 400 deniers (skeptics are convinced by science not money
but then, Logical science must be biased right?

basically, like It says in the article 2%.....I don't know, but I have a feeling that a lot of the people that are posting about this wouldn't take a new medicine if they had a 98% chance of dying.
I doubt that they'd say "there's far from a consensus on how horrible a death I'd face" and stuff like that.

because I really don't understand how people can say that there's equal amounts of data on either side, plus, they make it into a money issue.
they make it ( and I'm not saying you, I'm saying others) into a "change is expensive" when it's really not that expensive.
are there pieces of legislation inspired by this that make no sense?

yes.

does that mean that climate change doesn't exist? NO!
I means, seriously, in the 50's they said cigarettes "aided" digestion, and now we know they can cause cancer, how come nobody cites the previous stance as evidence that cigarettes must be good for you?

there's THIS article from September which should set off alarm bells in anyone's head.
or the article from scientific American ( they probably have an agenda SCIENTIFIC AGENDA!!!! THE HORROR!!!) with no short amount of experts ( well, people outraged that they support the "Al Gore" view on climate change, doesn't seem personal at all does it?)

and overall, the impact of man on the environment? 25%
25% seems like a lot, given the fact that some of the other factors include the ****ing sun! so yeah, when you can share the blame with something that can impact different planets at the same time?
maybe you should start to worry about it.
 
Just read the article.

National governments now need to confront a more fundamental question of how often they need comprehensive assessments of climate change.

That I like. Basicly prepare and study the issue in more detail.
 
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