Discussion: Relations with Russia

[Holy Slapper]

Erdogan about to get a few calls from the US...

 

[InCali]

We've (Finland and Sweden) pretty much gotten promises of security from theUS and several other countries. At least from our Nordic neighbors:

Fælles udtalelse om sikkerhedsforsikringer til Finland og Sverige

I’m sure you’re more tuned in to the nuances of this particular situation than I am. My sense is that you tend to agree with me. Is that correct? I just don’t know enough to feel confident leaning one way or the other, but this is how it seems to me on the surface.

 

[InCali]

In my opinion, if Finland and or Sweden were to actually be attacked, that would open up a can of worms that no one wants to see opened. I just can’t see that happening given the current state of affairs. You can shut off some electricity or refuse to supply gas or whatever, but I just don’t see the earth shattering threat here from Russia.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm not a military expert, but I don't see any reason to "bolster" Finland or Sweden militarily and don't think the senate should take the step of agreeing to defend either country if attacked before the ratification is complete. Russia is in no position to attack Finland at this point in time and won't be ready in the next year. Even if they tried to open another front (which would be incredibly stupid), I think they would get their asses handed to them. They're basically bogged down in Ukraine and, if reports are true, their military has been degraded.

I would prefer the US scale back military spending and use some of that to help bolster non-military sectors (and our own); which would have the net effect of allowing Sweden and Finland to upgrade their own defenses.

I think allowing the NATO membership process to run its course in a normal fashion is the most non-confrontational way of moving forward in this situation.

Like I said, I'm not a military expert. What do others think? Any pushback?

There is no non-confrontational way to do this. Putin is a madman.

 

[InCali]

There is no non-confrontational way to do this. Putin is a madman.

Note that I said “most non-confrontational”. What I was trying to say is that there are better and worse ways of dealing with this situation and some level of care is needed.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Reuters - Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia
Switzerland's fabled neutral status is about to face its biggest test in decades, with the defence ministry tilting closer to Western military powers in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Marvolo]

Sounds like the kind of micro managing Hitler was doing to his armies. It didn't go well for the German military, and it probably won't go well for the Russian military.

 

[Iceman]

There’s a reason for the structure of command in armies and even in large companies. This micromanaging from the top never ends well.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Finnish parliament voted today in favor of applying for NATO membership by a vote of 188-8. 3 absent, no empty votes. So out of 200 (Speaker of the parliament does not get to vote, hence why only 199). That's pretty unanimous. It was officially made into a motion this evening by the council of state, approved by the president and the foreign minister signed the application letter which will be sent to the NATO headquarters in Brussels. Finland and Sweden will officially send their applications tomorrow, announced by Sweden prime minister Magdalena Andersson. She and Finland's president Sauli Niinistö, who is visiting Sweden right now, travel to Washington on Thursday to meet president Biden.

Sidenote, our president has now met the US president more in the last few months than his predecessor Tarja Halonen during her entire term...

 

[Iceman]

Finnish parliament voted today in favor of applying for NATO membership by a vote of 188-8. 3 absent, no empty votes. So out of 200 (one long time parliamentarian passed away recently and his replacement hasn't been sworn in yet, I think, hence why only 199). That's pretty unanimous. It was officially made into a motion this evening by the council of state, approved by the president and the foreign minister signed the application letter which will be sent to the NATO headquarters in Brussels. Finland and Sweden will officially send their applications tomorrow, announced by Sweden prime minister Magdalena Andersson. She and Finland's president Sauli Niinistö, who is visiting Sweden right now, travel to Washington on Thursday to meet president Biden.

Sidenote, our president has now met the US president more in the last few months than his predecessor Tarja Halonen during her entire term...

Oh, didn’t realise it was going to be such a decisive vote in favour given the historical view of joining NATO.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Oh, didn’t realise it was going to be such a decisive vote in favour given the historical view of joining NATO.

Some MPs changed their vote based on previous comments. Parliamentary elections in about a year so...

 

[Fosterson]

Looks like ol' Dubya's demons are closing in on him.

 

[Morg]

Video shows Ukraine blowing up a sophisticated radar-jamming machine that Russia tried to hide

 

[Iceman]

Turkey to reject Sweden and Finland's bid to join NATO

 

[Holy Slapper]

Turkey to reject Sweden and Finland's bid to join NATO

Their issue is more with Sweden than Finland but even then there's stuff in their list that we have no say on because it's an EU decision or it would require changes to our laws when it comes to asylum seekers.The weapons import ban is something that can probably worked.

 

[Holy Slapper]

For being such huge homophobes and protectors of children, they do seem to like raping males and children a lot.

 

[Iceman]

Their issue is more with Sweden than Finland but even then there's stuff in their list that we have no say on because it's an EU decision or it would require changes to our laws when it comes to asylum seekers.The weapons import ban is something that can probably worked.

Also sounds like he just wants to get something out of it himself by objecting and then being softened up to agree.

 

[Iceman]

For being such huge homophobes and protectors of children, they do seem to like raping males and children a lot.

Need tons of war crimes trials.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Putin is ‘Weaponizing’ Food

Vladimir Putin is “weaponizing” global food supplies by stealing grain and destroying agricultural equipment as part of his war in Ukraine, the Telegraph reports.

 

[Marvolo]

Have we closed off Russia's access to international trade routes? If he's stealing food and messing with agriculture we should be seizing Russian ships and sending their goods to Ukraine.

 

[InCali]

Have we closed off Russia's access to international trade routes? If he's stealing food and messing with agriculture we should be seizing Russian ships and sending their goods to Ukraine.

Yeah.......that's another good idea......why don't we just declare war on Russia and get it over with?

 

[squeekness]

I was thinking the Russians were stealing the crops to feed themselves in compensation for the sanctions.,

 

[Iceman]

Polish PM: We’ll defend Sweden, Finland if attacked during NATO accession

 

[Iceman]

Russia to build '12 new military bases in the west' in response to NATO expansion | Euronews
Need to turn off their oil money asap so they have less flexibility to do things like this quickly.

 

[Marvolo]

I really don't know why any country would allow them to put bases in their country after what they've done in Ukraine. They've proven they have zero respect for sovereignty or human rights. And if they try to bring nukes into Western countries all bets are off.