🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[Sithborg]

What did her in was her trying to just pass off that she only used it as an anecdote, that others made the assumption that she was native american. But no, she listed it on her Texas bar directory. On the left, that is the kind of lie that kills you. It is just another pile onto how badly she has handled this.

 

[MaceB]

I think she walked into Trump's trap. He dangled this juvenile argument out there, and Warren came at it the same way that Hillary did - she thought she was above it, and there's no way the American people would side against her on this school yard taunt.

She was wrong. The more she attacked it, the more the name stuck. And now it'll define her career for decades. Frankly, she has to go through this, and lose a few elections in order for her to be inoculated from it, at this point. She's not going to win this election (probably), but if she plays her cards right, she could set herself up for another run 12 years or so.

Politically, it's bad. But real world... come on this is nothing. Does anyone really think that she listed herself this way as some kind of strategy to get ahead? Like, "oh haha, even though I know I'm 100% white, I'm going to lie on these forms and no one will be the wiser!" No dude. The most likely answer is that she was taught that she was part Native American from birth. It was, in fact, the identity that she identified with the most... cause that's what she was told. And I don't see any tangible advantages that she's claimed as a result of this. It was a mistake. She deluded herself into thinking this fantasy about herself. Is that unforgivable? Does that really tell us something about her... that I'm not picking up?

 

[OB12]

The narrative about Warren has already been set and has been fused to her persona in the view of the right. She still hasn't officially announced, she is still in the exploratory phase, so that give her an avenue to say that she is not going to seek the presidency and instead remain in the Senate to continue the fight against corporate greed. I think that is her best role anyway.

 

[Teelie]

I think she walked into Trump's trap. He dangled this juvenile argument out there, and Warren came at it the same way that Hillary did - she thought she was above it, and there's no way the American people would side against her on this school yard taunt.

She was wrong. The more she attacked it, the more the name stuck. And now it'll define her career for decades. Frankly, she has to go through this, and lose a few elections in order for her to be inoculated from it, at this point. She's not going to win this election (probably), but if she plays her cards right, she could set herself up for another run 12 years or so.

Politically, it's bad. But real world... come on this is nothing. Does anyone really think that she listed herself this way as some kind of strategy to get ahead? Like, "oh haha, even though I know I'm 100% white, I'm going to lie on these forms and no one will be the wiser!" No dude. The most likely answer is that she was taught that she was part Native American from birth. It was, in fact, the identity that she identified with the most... cause that's what she was told. And I don't see any tangible advantages that she's claimed as a result of this. It was a mistake. She deluded herself into thinking this fantasy about herself. Is that unforgivable? Does that really tell us something about her... that I'm not picking up?

I don't know what reason she had to put that in her ancestry. Like I said, I have a similar story in my family but never once have I considered it important enough to add to a census or any kind of factual history.

 

[Sithborg]

It is one thing to put it as your ancestry. It is another to put it as your race, which admittidly, on something that she would not get a benefit from.

 

[MaceB]

It's really not that unfathomable I think. She didn't know what it took for her tribal heritage to be considered official. No one told her that probably most Americans have a small amount of Native American ancestry.... a small side effect of colonizing, murdering, and raping a whole group of people. If my mom had told me from the day I was born that I was actually part black, even though I looked white..... would I claim African American heritage in certain situations? I don't know..... maybe. I don't think I can say for certain, and I don't think it'd be unforgivable either way. Would it be demonstrating a poor level of tact? I guess. But I don't think that it says anything about me as a person - how honest I am or how much integrity I have.

 

[Schlosser85]

Even if she believed she had some Native American ancestry.....she put it as her “race” when she is obviously at least predominantly white.

She didn’t just claim to have some ancestry, she claimed to be *be* Native American when she just clearly isn’t.

 

[MaceB]

She claimed herself as American Indian, not Native American on the Texas Bar papers.... which, as far as I know, is a simple registration form that comes with no added value for falsely claiming Native American heritage.

Sometimes, we overlook the most obvious things about ourselves. We all have blind spots. We think our relatives are fine, when they are really addicts. That our spouses are good, when they are really depressed. We comb over our bald spots, and claim people were great friends in high school... even when it's obviously not true. If she was told all her life that she was part Native American, it's possible that she filled out this harmless form, because she genuinely believed it. And in fact, she's right... she is part Native American. It's not made up out of nothing, here.

Who cares what you are predominantly. If someone is only 25% Asian American, can they not claim it on forms or tell it to employers? Where's the line? This is not a clear cut issue... this is an issue that deals with degree. And yeah, Elizabeth Warren crossed that line, but by mistake. It says nothing about her as a person. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[moviedoors]

but if she plays her cards right, she could set herself up for another run 12 years or so.

At the spry age of 81 years old? No thanks.

 

[Erzengel]

She claimed herself as American Indian, not Native American on the Texas Bar papers.... which, as far as I know, is a simple registration form that comes with no added value for falsely claiming Native American heritage.

Sometimes, we overlook the most obvious things about ourselves. We all have blind spots. We think our relatives are fine, when they are really addicts. That our spouses are good, when they are really depressed. We comb over our bald spots, and claim people were great friends in high school... even when it's obviously not true. If she was told all her life that she was part Native American, it's possible that she filled out this harmless form, because she genuinely believed it. And in fact, she's right... she is part Native American. It's not made up out of nothing, here.

Who cares what you are predominantly. If someone is only 25% Asian American, can they not claim it on forms or tell it to employers? Where's the line? This is not a clear cut issue... this is an issue that deals with degree. And yeah, Elizabeth Warren crossed that line, but by mistake. It says nothing about her as a person. Unless I'm missing something.

I think she told the story that her father was told not to marry her mother because of her native american "heritage". So when you build yourself up based on false stories and she could have been told by her parents this was true, but it doesn't help with the optics when it turns out not to be true.

I think there's a lot of people who take pride in their ethnicity especially if it's exotic even if it's partial. After ancestry, 23 and me, kind of put the kabosh on a lot of people who's families probably told them, they were descended from a Native American princess.

I just read this "live tweeting" event where a family was devastated that they found out they weren't Italians, and seeing how a lot of people wear that like a badge I can see how they were upset. My wife went on to tell me that those dna sites, now have "trained" professionals working the phones when people call up to complain about the results.

 

[MaceB]

At the spry age of 81 years old? No thanks.

Ageism - the one form of discrimination that is still deemed acceptable.

 

[moviedoors]

Ageism - the one form of discrimination that is still deemed acceptable.

Oh give me a break. “Ageism” is a term for female actors in their 40’s that can only find work playing moms, not for octogenarian world leaders. No one is at their mental or physical peak in their goddamn 80’s.

 

[MaceB]

That's not the test of what would make a good leader though - someone who is at their mental and physical peak. Experience and judgement are not things to discount or undervalue IMO. There's no reason to discount a person in their 80s, just because they are in their 80s. They've made it this far. They're survivors. And now they want to share their discretion and their success with the rest of us. That's a good thing. It's the top job in the world. It should take a person a lifetime of practice and success before they're worthy of it.
Instead, we give it out to kids like it's candy, cause they look better on TV. There's a lot more to a book than the cover.

 

[Sithborg]

EDIT: Wrong quote.

We have had 2 leaders in modern times in mental decline. Why risk a third.

 

[MaceB]

opportunity cost.

 

[2kt09]

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

The Daily Caller? Seriously?

 

[2kt09]

The Daily Caller? Seriously?

Closest one I could find. Just wanted to highlight this bizarre SOTU presence.

 

[MaceB]

What do you mean bizarre? It happens every time that a certain side doesn't stand. I'm certain that there's an Obama/Republicans video just like that one.

And in context, it makes sense why they wouldn't stand. When President Trump says that he encourages lawmakers to reach for greatness, what he's really saying is, "support what I think will be great for the country." Why would they stand for that? They don't agree with him on what makes America great.

 

[2kt09]

Top Virginia Democrats imperiled by blackface, sex assault scandals

What do you mean bizarre? It happens every time that a certain side doesn't stand. I'm certain that there's an Obama/Republicans video just like that one.

And in context, it makes sense why they wouldn't stand. When President Trump says that he encourages lawmakers to reach for greatness, what he's really saying is, "support what I think will be great for the country." Why would they stand for that? They don't agree with him on what makes America great.

The vague stuff I don't care about.
It's when he's bringing up how economic & social standings for various racial & minority groups is on an uptick (ie their talking points for what America needs to improve & end up bringing up in their response speeches to this SOTU) and the only one the Dems came for in resounding unison was women.
I get the anniversary, but come on.

 

[MaceB]

Top Virginia Democrats imperiled by blackface, sex assault scandals


The vague stuff I don't care about.
It's when he's bringing up how economic & social standings for various racial & minority groups is on an uptick (ie their talking points for what America needs to improve & end up bringing up in their response speeches to this SOTU) and the only one the Dems came for in resounding unison was women.
I get the anniversary, but come on.

See, in that situation, they don't want to stand up and support the idea that Trump is responsible for those things. The last Democratic administration rebounded the economy from an economic disaster caused by conservative trickle down economics... among other things. All the trends were on their way up before Trump took office... thanks to progressive economic policy. That's why they don't clap... they don't want Trump to take ownership of their accomplishments.

 

[2kt09]

See, in that situation, they don't want to stand up and support the idea that Trump is responsible for those things. The last Democratic administration rebounded the economy from an economic disaster caused by conservative trickle down economics... among other things. All the trends were on their way up before Trump took office... thanks to progressive economic policy. That's why they don't clap... they don't want Trump to take ownership of their accomplishments.

Then take ownership of those accomplishments in the response. What I heard in the response was contradictory; not we need to continue to do better. I'm guessing rehearsed before Trump even made the address and didn't improv accordingly.

 

[MaceB]

Then take ownership of those accomplishments in the response. What I heard in the response was contradictory; not we need to continue to do better. I'm guessing rehearsed before Trump even made the address and didn't improv accordingly.

Uh huh, well now you're getting into something else. Every response is imperfect. There will always be someone saying, "why didn't they do this" or "how come they didn't say that?"

But there was nothing off about many of them sitting for those lines in the State of the Union. Par for the course.

 

[Aximili86]

Does anyone really think that she listed herself this way as some kind of strategy to get ahead?

Doesn't exactly hurt though, does it? Affirmative action's a thing, you don't misrepresent heritage on official job documents. If that gets dug up later when you have political ambitions, that's on you.

Regarding "ageism", the number shouldn't be relevant if you're healthy. Thing is, the risks of not being able to carry out the job due to health reasons or early stages of dementia like Reagan increase with age. 70's one thing, but even with people living longer & better medical care now, 80s' pushing it, you don't want an 80-something president. Perfect world, Trump/Hillary/BernieBiden alike are all probably pushing it. Biden was probably fine in 2016, but don't think most people would risk him now or 2024, there's definitely a ceiling for this stuff. Same with Warren - now, not a problem. In a decade, though? Legit concern.

But yeah, she doesn't have a chance in 2020 anyway, looking forward from there is further downhill.

 

[2kt09]

Uh huh, well now you're getting into something else. Every response is imperfect. There will always be someone saying, "why didn't they do this" or "how come they didn't say that?"

But there was nothing off about many of them sitting for those lines in the State of the Union. Par for the course.

It shows to the public what they don't stand for, even though they've constantly & still advocate for those things. This race is off to another illuminating start.