🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[MaceB]

In terms of economy and foreign policy, Obama was more "Republican" than the last Republican.

That's definitely not true.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This two party is a farce was my point and yeah I looked it up.
America elected & reelected the best possible "Republican" 11 years ago.
Obama did more than Bush. This includes our militaristic toes in more foreign nations.

That's obtuse. Obama did nothing on the level of instigating the war in Iraq or mismanaging the operations in Afghanistan.

Starve the beast is the intention with GOP tax policy.

And... You are being intentionally blind if you want to push the whole false equivalency between the two parties. Of course the Dems are flawed. Of course they fall short of their own espoused ideals. Of course you can point to corruption originating within Dem officials and policy.

But unless you are being willfully blind, naive or frankly don't have a clue about the actual history of the last four decades a person would have to see that there is one side far more responsible for driving the country into a ditch with their policy and chosen leadership. One side is far more hypocritical in their rhetoric and goals. One side does far more to divide the nation by riling up the bigoted and the uninformed.

One side nominated Donald ****ing Trump.


The above it all, pox on both houses nonsense is simply a pose. It's not backed up by history. If one wants to contend that a Democratic POTUS takes us into Iraq, or uses know-nothing jingoism to drive policy or SUCCESSFULLY uses a nakedly racist conspiracy theory to rise to leadership of the party... I'm sorry but I can't respect your opinion as it's deeply flawed. More to the point such an opinion doesn't deserve to be respected.

The general attitudes that there are no important differences in the policy, rhetoric and political strategies employed by the two parties is the very flower of the sophomoric elitism so prevalent online.

 

[2kt09]

That's obtuse. Obama did nothing on the level of instigating the war in Iraq or mismanaging the operations in Afghanistan.

Starve the beast is the intention with GOP tax policy.

And... You are being intentionally blind if you want to push the whole false equivalency between the two parties. Of course the Dems are flawed. Of course they fall short of their own espoused ideals. Of course you can point to corruption originating within Dem officials and policy.

But unless you are being willfully blind, naive or frankly don't have a clue about the actual history of the last four decades a person would have to see that there is one side far more responsible for driving the country into a ditch with their policy. One side is far more hypocritical in their rhetoric and goals. One side does far more to divide the nation by riling up the bigoted and the uninformed.

One side nominated Donald ****ing Trump.


The above it all, pox on both houses nonsense is simply a pose. It's not backed up by history. If one wants to contend that a Democratic POTUS takes us into Iraq, or uses know-nothing jingoism to drive policy or SUCCESSFULLY uses a nakedly racist conspiracy theory to rise to leadership of the party... I'm sorry but if you can't see that I can't respect your opinion as it's deeply flawed. More to the point such an opinion doesn't deserve to be respected.

The general attitudes that there are no important differences in the policy, rhetoric and political strategies employed by the two parties is the very flower of the sophomoric elitism so prevalent online.

Our previous commander in chief did in fact add more wars to the US history.
Obama "starved the beast".
Both of these things are a quick google search away from a *credible source*
"Obama spending cuts" "Obama tax cuts"

 

[Ouch]

The Democratic Party is a perfectly reasonable and responsible center-right conservative party. There's nothing wrong with that. It just so happens that the Republican Party is extreme far right to flirting with fascism, and are enemies of Democracy. In a regular Western Democracy, the Democrats would be the right wing party, there would be a left wing party, and the center would be the actual center. The center in America is solidly conservative. The left is center-right. The right are fascists. America is just insanely skewed to the right. It's why we're so backward, or maybe we're skewed to the right because we're so backward in the first place. It's the chicken or the burning cross, I guess.

 

[Aximili86]

"Center-right".

Ooo-kay. They used to be "center" in the Bubba Clinton days, "center-right" would only be a description coming from someone personally pretty hardcore on the left though. There's nothing "right" about someone like Obama or Biden, let alone these congressional newbies being held up as the future of the party.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Our previous commander in chief did in fact add more wars to the US history.
Obama "starved the beast".
Both of these things are a quick google search away from a *credible source*
"Obama spending cuts" "Obama tax cuts"

So... Obama was intentionally trying to bankrupt the social safety net?


That's a ridiculous claim. It just is. I don't think you know at all what the term mean or where it comes from or why it's been the goal of the Right for decades.

 

[MaceB]

"Center-right".

Ooo-kay. They used to be "center" in the Bubba Clinton days, "center-right" would only be a description coming from someone personally pretty hardcore on the left though. There's nothing "right" about someone like Obama or Biden, let alone these congressional newbies being held up as the future of the party.

Obama and Biden both are centrists.

It's true, we finally have some new incoming progressive congress people, but the bulk of the DNC is center to center right.

 

[Aximili86]

Totally centrists, agreed. "Center-right" though? C'mon now. They're left of center, just still in that rational centrist area. They're certainly not right of center. Bill Clinton either. They're just right of the Bernie Freaks, that doesn't make 'em right.

"Center-right" would be your Bush Srs, Jeb Bushes, Fiorina types of the world. McCain, yadda yadda. There's clearly a difference between those guys and Obama or Bill Clinton or Biden, even though they're all rational and within that broad center zone, people we need more of.

 

[MaceB]

Bernie freaks comment aside... okay... that's faire. If we want to debate center vs. center-right.. I'll take that. It's a reasonable position to not think of them as center-right.

I suppose moderate could also be a term to use for Obama, Biden, and a lot of the DNC honestly. Yeah... there are few leftists out there...more every day luckily.. but that's still a pretty new phenomenon in my view. The DNC has been pretty much operating under the premise that America is a conservative country for a good while now, IMO.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Obama and Biden both are centrists.

It's true, we finally have some new incoming progressive congresspeople, but the bulk of the DNC is center to center right.

I agree that by international standards the Dems would be a Center Right Party most anywhere else.

By American standards they are a Center Left Party though and for all the coverage the more Leftward elements get in the press the facts are that the Dems aren't seriously talking about nationalizing all the industries or the like. Look at what is done with our social safety net programs even when Dems are in control. At their most "radical" most Dems want us to be more like the Nordic countries not as the scare mongers of the Right would have us believe like Venezuela or Cuba.

On the other hand... What is currently the party practically celebrating tariffs, protectionism and handing out money to constituencies like farmers hit by economic losses due to poor policy decisions? It's not the Dems.

 

[Aximili86]

The nordic countries haven't proposed getting off oil entirely within a mere decade or doing away with private health insurance as even being an option.

Ocasio-Cortez & Co are way further left of your Swedes & Canucks & New Zealand types. A bigger safety net than the U.S. currently has is great, and very welcome - that's Sweden. Not this crap.

 

[2kt09]

So... Obama was intentionally trying to bankrupt the social safety net?


That's a ridiculous claim. It just is. I don't think you know at all what the term mean or where it comes from or why it's been the goal of the Right for decades.

His actions make him complicit regardless of intent.

Obama is the best Republican president we've had

 

[Schlosser85]

His actions make him complicit regardless of intent.

Obama is the best Republican president we've had

Then why did Republicans hate him so much? Oh wait....we all know the answer to that.

 

[Aximili86]

Spell it out, chief, no need to hold back. Nothing'll happen to you, you've got the protection when it comes to racial accusations.

 

[Donner]

Republicans hated Obama because he's black.

That's obvious no?

 

[Schlosser85]

To clarify, I'm not saying all or necessarily even a majority of Republicans are racist. But it's hardly a great big secret that the animus directed toward Obama had strong racial undertones, from effigies of him as a monkey or in African tribal dress, to the deliberate emphasis on his middle name Hussein when people like Michelle Bachmann would go out of their way to stress it in speeches, to the whole "birther" controversy perpetuated by none other than Donald Trump.

 

[2kt09]

The only colors that matter.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Spell it out, chief, no need to hold back. Nothing'll happen to you, you've got the protection when it comes to racial accusations.

Because the GOP didn't nominate someone that literally based his political career on the vile, completely unsubstantiated lunatic conspiracy theory of Birtherism... Right?

Oh wait... They did. And they don't believe that the only reason the current president, their party's leader lost the popular vote is because of "millions" of votes from Hispanic illegal immigrants... Right?

Oh wait... They do. Well the GOP rank and file didn't carry around racist effigies of Obama at rallies for literally years, create tons of memes online comparing Obama and his wife with apes, claim he wasn't his publicly declared faith for the express purpose of smearing him as some kind of Muslim secret agent or for that matter propogate made up stories about him also being a closeted homosexual man once again to simply with the intention of smearing him.

Oh... Wait... They did all that and poll after poll shows a little over half of them continue to believe these ridiculously stupid and fueled by bigoted lies.

But yeah, it's out of line to think maybe, just maybe, there is a pretty high degree of tolerance for anti-African American/anti-Hispanic American sentiment in the party despite all the evidence seen with our own eyes and actually pretty proudly proclaimed in public by GOP voters during Obama's 8 years.

 

[moviedoors]

Let's also not forget that the McCain campaign ads in 2008 darkened Obama's skin to make him scarier to the white folk.

 

[chaseter]

I want AOC to run for President in 2020 so I can watch the DNC finally crumble into ruin.

 

[BWonder]

I want AOC to run for President in 2020 so I can watch the DNC finally crumble into ruin.

AOC?

 

[chaseter]

Ocasio Cortez

 

[The Overlord]

I want AOC to run for President in 2020 so I can watch the DNC finally crumble into ruin.

Yes, the evil Dems will collapse and we will finally and then we finally get the Republican one-party state we always wanted.

Trump can be the king, while Ted Cruz can be a duke.

This why the Overton Window is screwed up in the US to the point that the Republicans can move to the far right and that's okay, but if the Dems move an inch to the left, that is deemed unacceptable.

Anything AOC does is unacceptable, but Trump wanting to waste billions of dollars on a stupid border wall is okay, how is that fair and rational? I think your side wants to play a rigged game where anything your side says is reasonable (even the stupid border wall) and anything the other side says is too extreme.

 

[Sithborg]

She's not eligible till 2024, so you have to wait.

 

[chaseter]

2024 it is then.