🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[InCali]

Yeah, that's what worries me. As much as Biden winning is better than Trump winning, I do worry it'll reinforce their beliefs that status quo is enough, allowing them to be blindsided when someone tries this playbook again. And it seems like a near certainty to me that someone will. With growing wealth inequality, less jobs that people can support themselves on, expensive higher education and the ever-present threat of, you know, global climate catastrophe looming on the horizon, they'll have a lot of material to work with.

Whether Biden, if he wins, will follow through, I can't say for sure. The ideas he's putting forward address some of the issues you mentioned. They don't go far enough and my personal opinion is that Biden will, if he gets a lot of pressure from those to the left of him, make some positive changes. He's not someone who will get out in front of an issue like Warren or Sanders unless he sees the writing on the wall.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I have bad news for everyone...

Genie is out of the bottle for the foreseeable future.

America now has a THRIVING Fascist political culture. Trump is going to be looked in history as a tipping point. The 3rd POTUS of the 21st century normalized fascist demagoguery and fascist tactics. He normalized the long-simmering white resentment of this country's conservatives and weaponized it into what I think is going to be able to Lasting white nationalist movement.

Trump is not the end of the story.

 

[InCali]

I have bad news for everyone...

Genie is out of the bottle for the foreseeable future.

America now has a THRIVING Fascist political culture. Trump is going to be looked in history as a tipping point. The 3rd POTUS of the 21st century normalized fascist demagoguery and fascist tactics. He normalized the long-simmering white resentment of this country's conservatives and weaponized it into what I think is going to be able to Lasting white nationalist movement.

Trump is not the end of the story.

I wish I could say I think you're wrong. There's a way out of this, but I don't know if our "leaders" have the political will to make it happen.

 

[moviedoors]

Whether Biden, if he wins, will follow through, I can't say for sure. The ideas he's putting forward address some of the issues you mentioned. They don't go far enough and my personal opinion is that Biden will, if he gets a lot of pressure from those to the left of him, make some positive changes. He's not someone who will get out in front of an issue like Warren or Sanders unless he sees the writing on the wall.

This is becoming a mantra for you, but I’m not onboard. If he wins, then they don’t NEED the left. Whose really going to be able to pressure him? And how far left can he go when he’s also busy courting and trying to be friends with the GOP?

 

[Schlosser85]

This is becoming a mantra for you, but I’m not onboard. If he wins, then they don’t NEED the left. Whose really going to be able to pressure him? And how far left can he go when he’s also busy courting and trying to be friends with the GOP?

So what’s your suggestion? Vote third party?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I wish I could say I think you're wrong. There's a way out of this, but I don't know if our "leaders" have the political will to make it happen.

See... do I think that there is a political component that absolutely includes considering massive overhauls to various sclerotic institutions in the United States?

Well... Sure.

That that isn't also end point of the story though nor even the beginning.

I know it's unpopular to say this but a lot of the issues of this country actually don't have anything to do with corruption at the highest levels or Elite maybe not even moneyed interests.

I wish the story was as simple as there are villains who have power economically and politically. But that does not happen unless it is willingly handed over in a society like ours. Our problems are not top-down problems I'm sorry. Our problems are ground up problems. The source of all of our woes is the American citizen. And that is not a way of saying well since everyone's at fault no one's at fault. We as a political entity the public we have made choices. I don't like The Narrative of the poor put-upon citizen of this country. It just lets too many of us off the hook.

We have a sickness in the culture. The politics flows from that.

 

[InCali]

This is becoming a mantra for you, but I’m not onboard. If he wins, then they don’t NEED the left. Whose really going to be able to pressure him? And how far left can he go when he’s also busy courting and trying to be friends with the GOP?

What I said is I'm not sure if he'll follow through. I don't think anyone knows the answer to that yet. If he's being shortsighted, then, sure, he doesn't need the left. If he's taking a long term view, he knows damn well he does. An alliance with the GOP is becoming less and less likely IMO.

 

[InCali]

See... do I think that there is a political component that absolutely includes considering massive overhauls to various sclerotic institutions in the United States?

Well... Sure.

That that isn't also end point of the story though nor even the beginning.

I know it's unpopular to say this but a lot of the issues of this country actually don't have anything to do with corruption at the highest levels or Elite maybe not even moneyed interests.

I wish the story was as simple as there are villains who have power economically and politically. But that does not happen unless it is willingly handed over in a society like ours. Our problems are not top-down problems I'm sorry. Our problems are ground up problems. The source of all of our woes is the American citizen. And that is not a way of saying well since everyone's at fault no one's at fault. We as a political entity the public we have made choices. I don't like The Narrative of the poor put-upon citizen of this country. It just lets too many of us off the hook.

We have a sickness in the culture. The politics flows from that.

I don't disagree with you, but I think the politics feeds the sickness also. It's not a one way thing.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't disagree with you, but I think the politics feeds the sickness also. It's not a one way thing.

Oh there is a terrible feedback loop for sure.

 

[moviedoors]

So what’s your suggestion? Vote third party?

That's the awful rub: we have to vote Biden.

I'm just not holding my breath for change. I'm afraid that at best a Biden victory simply postpones the rot, not stop it.

I suppose I'll take the extra time to figure out if I want to flee to another country.

 

[InCali]

That's the awful rub: we have to vote Biden.

I'm just not holding my breath for change. I'm afraid that at best a Biden victory simply postpones the rot, not stop it.

I suppose I'll take the extra time to figure out if I want to flee to another country.

I hope we find out. The infrastructure plans he put forward are a start. I think new, greener jobs can be a help in a lot of different ways; not just energy production and slowing climate change.

 

[Lily Adler]

Progressives had another great night. Cori Bush won in Missouri.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sam being an older, wiser person, who gives way more consideration to strategy and not out of hand complaining about everything the Democrats do shows what little faith we should probably have in this situation.

 

[chaseter]

Way to go Janet:
Trial Date Set for Janet Reed

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Way to go Janet:
Trial Date Set for Janet Reed

Wow, it is amazing how it seems all attempts at voter fraud are caught. It's almost like it isn't an issue at all...

 

[chaseter]

Wow, it is amazing how it seems all attempts at voter fraud are caught. It's almost like it isn't an issue at all...

If you think all instances are caught then you are delusional. Then again we have laws and cops catch all criminals every single time. I’m sure Janet was the only one.

 

[InCali]

If you think all instances are caught then you are delusional. Then again we have laws and cops catch all criminals every single time. I’m sure Janet was the only one.

Not all of anything is caught, but this idea that there is widespread voter fraud doesn't hold up. It happens for sure, but Trump's version of this story just sounds self-serving and stupid.

 

[chaseter]

Not all of anything is caught, but this idea that there is widespread voter fraud doesn't hold up. It happens for sure, but Trump's version of this story just sounds self-serving and stupid.

There should be zero voter fraud. How do you reduce instances of voter fraud? Guns and voting are constitutional rights. Both have instances of fraud and abuse. To buy a gun, you must do so in person with an ID. Why is voting different from a rights standpoint than owning guns? How can we make it harder for a criminal to commit fraud? My answer is voting in person with an ID. If an ID can’t be afforded, then it should be subsidized. I’m also all for more polling places and extended times. For people that cannot vote in person, an exception must occur (absentee). I am not for mail in ballots. That’s crazy.

 

[InCali]

There should be zero voter fraud. How do you reduce instances of voter fraud? Guns and voting are constitutional rights. Both have instances of fraud and abuse. To buy a gun, you must do so in person with an ID. Why is voting different from a rights standpoint than owning guns? How can we make it harder for a criminal to commit fraud? My answer is voting in person with an ID. If an ID can’t be afforded, then it should be subsidized. I’m also all for more polling places and extended times. For people that cannot vote in person, an exception must occur (absentee). I am not for mail in ballots. That’s crazy.

There will never be zero cases of fraud no matter what you do. There is always a way of circumventing processes. The best we can do is make it not worth someone's time to cheat. "When" adequate polling places are in place and when adequate access is available, we can discuss mail in voting requirement; unless, of course, you are in the middle of a pandemic or other extraordinary circumstances.

 

[moviedoors]

There should be zero voter fraud. How do you reduce instances of voter fraud? Guns and voting are constitutional rights. Both have instances of fraud and abuse. To buy a gun, you must do so in person with an ID. Why is voting different from a rights standpoint than owning guns? How can we make it harder for a criminal to commit fraud? My answer is voting in person with an ID. If an ID can’t be afforded, then it should be subsidized. I’m also all for more polling places and extended times. For people that cannot vote in person, an exception must occur (absentee). I am not for mail in ballots. That’s crazy.

And this is based on... your gut feelings?

 

[Schlosser85]

There should be zero voter fraud. How do you reduce instances of voter fraud? Guns and voting are constitutional rights. Both have instances of fraud and abuse. To buy a gun, you must do so in person with an ID. Why is voting different from a rights standpoint than owning guns? How can we make it harder for a criminal to commit fraud? My answer is voting in person with an ID. If an ID can’t be afforded, then it should be subsidized. I’m also all for more polling places and extended times. For people that cannot vote in person, an exception must occur (absentee). I am not for mail in ballots. That’s crazy.

Yea, I’m gonna take the word of the experts who say the amount of mail in fraud is minuscule and the states who’ve already been voting entirely by mail for years over a name on a messageboard.

 

[InCali]

Yea, I’m gonna take the word of the experts who say the amount of mail in fraud is minuscule and the states who’ve already been voting entirely by mail for years over a name on a messageboard.

Let's also be consistent. It's okay for Florida, but let's file a lawsuit if Nevada wants mail in ballots.

 

[chaseter]

And this is based on... your gut feelings?

Opinion. Your statistics rely on prosecuted instances. Side example: My opinion is that child sex trafficking occurs at a higher rate than current convictions rates stand. Would you agree? Same for voter fraud, tax fraud, any type of fraud. The only difference with voter fraud is that the Left don’t care about it and they want to make it easier for it to occur. Yes I’m aware the Right want to make it harder for minorities to vote. I’m not for either. Both sides suck.

 

[Schlosser85]

The only difference with voter fraud is that the Left don’t care about it and they want to make it easier for it to occur.