Discussion: The Second Amendment III

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Did anyone see the... "interview" with Piers Morgan and Alex Jones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y

I think that is the problem with the current train of thought of the far far right. If somebody believes that then doing something simple as making it slightly harder to buy a gun(say you can only by it at a gun shop while getting a background check) will be seen as a huge evil that takes away rights by the evil government

I think it's fair to say the government could go evil and that is a reason we shouldn't outlaw guns, but simple fact is most people want tougher gun regulation, not to outrght ban guns. There has to be some middle ground and to many make it a black or white issue
 
John Stewart had a great segment on gun control last night. It was spot on especially the part with gun control and drinking and driving laws.
 
Although with misuse it can, automobiles were not designed for killing. That is not the case with a firearm. I doubt you would be firing a warning shot with an intruder in your home. You don't know what he might have. If you draw a firearm it should be because you are in fear of your life. If you draw and fire a warning shot, then it begs the question whether you were really in fear or not. I find it hard to believe that they teach that in firearms class.

In my scenario, I would certainly know if someone was breaking into my house as my German Shepperd would alert me. Not knowing if they had a gun or not - and in some likelyhood that they managed to subdue my dog - I would gather my family into one room, barricade the door, let the intruder know I had a gun, verbally or with a warning shot, while my wife called the police. I don;t own a gun so if someone comes into my house I can run down the stairs and confront them, but so that if they press the issue and it is my life or theirs, I have the means to defend and protect myself and my family. According to you, unless I run down and kill the guy I'm not really concerned about protecting my family. I think this debate took a left turn a bit ago. I see that you are either being deliberately irrational to spark some flames and get some mod intervention or your world view is so radically different from mine (and apparently some others on here) that having a logical discourse on the subject with you is not possible. The world is not black and white. But you can find no fault in Obama whether he blatantly lies or not, Zimmerman should be hanged though he hasn't even been tried and much of what we DO know points to it NOT being murder, people ONLY buy guns to kill others. Check, check, and check.

YOu know who's in favor of getting rid of legal firearms? Criminals who obtain theirs illegally. Might want to think about that.


dnno1 said:
How often do people drive their car to mow down school children? Vehicular homicide comes with very stiff penalties in most states and that does not happen as much as gun deaths.

AS I said, take away the guns and see what happens. The people who perpetrated these mass murders di so from the basis that they had an intent to kill, period. Take away the guns and they'll find some other way. A car, a bomb, something. THen it would get blown up on the 'news' 24/7 giving other nutjobs all kind of new ideas and then you'd start seeing a proliferation of murders done in a like manner.

And again, how are you prepared to protect yourself and your family in the event an armed intruder threatened your lives? Still haven't answered that one.
 
In my scenario, I would certainly know if someone was breaking into my house as my German Shepperd would alert me. Not knowing if they had a gun or not - and in some likelyhood that they managed to subdue my dog - I would gather my family into one room, barricade the door, let the intruder know I had a gun, verbally or with a warning shot, while my wife called the police. I don;t own a gun so if someone comes into my house I can run down the stairs and confront them, but so that if they press the issue and it is my life or theirs, I have the means to defend and protect myself and my family. According to you, unless I run down and kill the guy I'm not really concerned about protecting my family. I think this debate took a left turn a bit ago. I see that you are either being deliberately irrational to spark some flames and get some mod intervention or your world view is so radically different from mine (and apparently some others on here) that having a logical discourse on the subject with you is not possible. The world is not black and white. But you can find no fault in Obama whether he blatantly lies or not, Zimmerman should be hanged though he hasn't even been tried and much of what we DO know points to it NOT being murder, people ONLY buy guns to kill others. Check, check, and check.

YOu know who's in favor of getting rid of legal firearms? Criminals who obtain theirs illegally. Might want to think about that.




AS I said, take away the guns and see what happens. The people who perpetrated these mass murders di so from the basis that they had an intent to kill, period. Take away the guns and they'll find some other way. A car, a bomb, something. THen it would get blown up on the 'news' 24/7 giving other nutjobs all kind of new ideas and then you'd start seeing a proliferation of murders done in a like manner.

And again, how are you prepared to protect yourself and your family in the event an armed intruder threatened your lives? Still haven't answered that one.


I'm sure dnn01 has one of these in his front yard.
Gun-FreeZone_zps6b84f804.gif
 
In my scenario, I would certainly know if someone was breaking into my house as my German Shepperd would alert me. Not knowing if they had a gun or not - and in some likelyhood that they managed to subdue my dog - I would gather my family into one room, barricade the door, let the intruder know I had a gun, verbally or with a warning shot, while my wife called the police. I don;t own a gun so if someone comes into my house I can run down the stairs and confront them, but so that if they press the issue and it is my life or theirs, I have the means to defend and protect myself and my family. According to you, unless I run down and kill the guy I'm not really concerned about protecting my family. I think this debate took a left turn a bit ago. I see that you are either being deliberately irrational to spark some flames and get some mod intervention or your world view is so radically different from mine (and apparently some others on here) that having a logical discourse on the subject with you is not possible. The world is not black and white. But you can find no fault in Obama whether he blatantly lies or not, Zimmerman should be hanged though he hasn't even been tried and much of what we DO know points to it NOT being murder, people ONLY buy guns to kill others. Check, check, and check.

YOu know who's in favor of getting rid of legal firearms? Criminals who obtain theirs illegally. Might want to think about that.




AS I said, take away the guns and see what happens. The people who perpetrated these mass murders di so from the basis that they had an intent to kill, period. Take away the guns and they'll find some other way. A car, a bomb, something. THen it would get blown up on the 'news' 24/7 giving other nutjobs all kind of new ideas and then you'd start seeing a proliferation of murders done in a like manner.

And again, how are you prepared to protect yourself and your family in the event an armed intruder threatened your lives? Still haven't answered that one.

While you are doing that (unlikely considering home invasion is very fast and very few people have time to do much of anything) I'll just shoot them and call 911. :)
 
Being prepared requires planning, so you are still planing to kill. Explosives are controlled. That's why you don't see so many car bombings here in the US.

Uh? What WORLD do you live in? Explosives are not controlled. Anyone with internet access to make one. If there were no guns, explosives would be the next big thing.

But really, it's not even about that. Many violent gun related crimes involve unregistered, illegally obtained weapons. You DO realize that right?
 
I'm no fan of Morgan, but even I have to have sympathy for him after that.
 
I'm no fan of Morgan, but even I have to have sympathy for him after that.

I'm not a fan of Piers either, but I don't feel sorry for him. The way he treats some people it's nice to see him get some back. Unfortunately, Alex Jones just made gun owners look like crazy enraged people. I'll admit, I'm enfuriated about how people are acting about gun control, but I stay calm and I don't act like a raving lunatic about it.
A time and place for everything and on a tv show is not the place to unleash.
Now former Marine Cpl. Joshua Boston handled himself with the type of calm and dignity I expect from any respectable gun owner.
http://youtu.be/arwfRgiw-qc

I also applaud the letter Cpl. Boston wrote to Dianne Feinstein and I stand right with him.
 
Having Alex Jones representing people who don't want sweeping gun bans was done on purpose by CNN. They could have picked someone much better but instead choose to marginalize all gun owners by having this whack job scream his head off on live television and look completely insane.
 
I'm not a fan of Piers either, but I don't feel sorry for him.
Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson beat Piers Morgan up back in 2005. They had a five year public feud
Having Alex Jones representing people who don't want sweeping gun bans was done on purpose by CNN. They could have picked someone much better but instead choose to marginalize all gun owners by having this whack job scream his head off on live television and look completely insane.
Pretty much.

Piers is a smart guy. Letting Alex Jones get airtime and voice his crazy conspiracy theory sillyness meant Piers could just sit back watch the guy make a fool of himself live on tv.

Its funny that Alex Jones went on a rant about meds because he seems like someone who could use some.
 
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In my scenario, I would certainly know if someone was breaking into my house as my German Shepperd would alert me. Not knowing if they had a gun or not - and in some likelyhood that they managed to subdue my dog - I would gather my family into one room, barricade the door, let the intruder know I had a gun, verbally or with a warning shot, while my wife called the police. I don;t own a gun so if someone comes into my house I can run down the stairs and confront them, but so that if they press the issue and it is my life or theirs, I have the means to defend and protect myself and my family. According to you, unless I run down and kill the guy I'm not really concerned about protecting my family. I think this debate took a left turn a bit ago. I see that you are either being deliberately irrational to spark some flames and get some mod intervention or your world view is so radically different from mine (and apparently some others on here) that having a logical discourse on the subject with you is not possible. The world is not black and white. But you can find no fault in Obama whether he blatantly lies or not, Zimmerman should be hanged though he hasn't even been tried and much of what we DO know points to it NOT being murder, people ONLY buy guns to kill others. Check, check, and check.

Many people will tell you that firing a warning shot is not wise at all. First of all if you fire it in the air, it's going to come down somewhere and it could hit someone. I remember when I was around high school age there was a member of my church, a young girl, who was paralyzed by a bullet of which ballistics test concluded could have been fired from 3 miles away. Although they were never able to find the shooter, that could have easily been the round from a warning shot. Even if one were to fire the round safely into the ground you could be guilty of reckless endangerment. Even showing the weapon to the attacker or mentioning that you are armed is not the safe thing to do. Another anecdote, I also had a friend, who's son was a serif's deputy. While off duty with his girlfriend he got into an argument on the street with another driver. He showed the other driver that he had a gun as well as his badge and drove off. The other person caught up with him at the next light and pointed a pistol at him shouting "I've got one of those too". The driver fired a round at the car, but luckily it hit the door jam and ricocheted across the roof exiting on the passenger side of the car. The assailant drove of and left the sheriff with a $3000 car repair.

YOu know who's in favor of getting rid of legal firearms? Criminals who obtain theirs illegally. Might want to think about that.

That's doubtful since many criminals can legally purchase firearms through private sales. Private owners are not required to perform background checks so it's perfectly legal and that is how the purchase weapons.

AS I said, take away the guns and see what happens. The people who perpetrated these mass murders di so from the basis that they had an intent to kill, period. Take away the guns and they'll find some other way. A car, a bomb, something. THen it would get blown up on the 'news' 24/7 giving other nutjobs all kind of new ideas and then you'd start seeing a proliferation of murders done in a like manner.

If you don't have uniform regulation I could see that happening since the criminals could just go to some other jurisdiction where they can obtain a firearm legally (that's what is happening in Chicago). It would be a different story if there was a national standard.

And again, how are you prepared to protect yourself and your family in the event an armed intruder threatened your lives? Still haven't answered that one.

With a cell phone.
 
Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson beat Piers Morgan up back in 2005. They had a five year public feud

Pretty much.

Piers is a smart guy. Letting Alex Jones get airtime and voice his crazy conspiracy theory sillyness meant Piers could just sit back watch the guy make a fool of himself live on tv.

Its funny that Alex Jones went on a rant about meds because he seems like someone who could use some.

I thought the reason he was on the show was because he was spearheading the whole 'deport Piers' movement?
 
Many people will tell you that firing a warning shot is not wise at all. First of all if you fire it in the air, it's going to come down somewhere and it could hit someone.

This is very true.

That's doubtful since many criminals can legally purchase firearms through private sales.

Stolen or illegal guns sold through a private seller are not legal. Felons buying through private sales is not legal.

Private owners are not required to perform background checks so it's perfectly legal and that is how the purchase weapons.

I do agree that it is very unwise to sell guns privately to someone other than friends or family. While it is legal in most if not all states, it is highly advised that the transaction be done through an FFL dealer to cover the original owner's butt. I would not be against changing that advisement into a regulation.

With a cell phone.

A cell phone is not protection. I wish that is all anyone would ever need, but it's not. Do you even have a bat or mace or taser?

Also, I really want to hear your reply to my earlier post to you:

Originally Posted by dnno1 said:
Being prepared requires planning, so you are still planing to kill.

People prepare by knowing the laws and target practicing. And 9.9/10 they're looking at it from the point of view of recreational enjoyment and basic familiarity with the weapon, not how awesomely they're going to shoot a bad guy. I have a few guns. I enjoy shooting them at the range, nothing more. If my life were in danger, yes, I do have a means to protect myself, but that is not why i purchased said weapons, it is not a situation I ever hope to be in and I have no plans on killing anyone.

I'm curious:

What do you think goes through the mind of someone who purchases a gun for recreational use (target shooting, collectiong, etc)?

How do you think a person who buys a gun for personal protection "plans" to kill? Do you think they walk through their house and say "Ok, when a bad guy comes in through the window, I'll stand over here...no, wait...over here, fire two shots into his chest, and if he's still moving, I'm going to John Woo jump over the couch - remember to release the doves, when i do, sweatheart - and after the barrell roll, I'll shoot him again in his stupid face."
 
To be fair to the crazy people yelling that people want to take their guns away... they're not wrong.

If you want to enact British style gun laws (or better yet, Japanese laws) as many anti-Second Amendment people do, this is about a lot more than "assault weapons".

They're coming for your "assault rifle", your semiautomatic handgun, your revolver, and your freaking antique flintlock musket.
 
With a cell phone.

"Get back, or I'll call the police, and they'll be here in seven to ten minutes! ...assuming they don't put me on hold."

Provided you get service in that closet your are hiding in, of course.
 
Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson beat Piers Morgan up back in 2005. They had a five year public feud

Pretty much.

Piers is a smart guy. Letting Alex Jones get airtime and voice his crazy conspiracy theory sillyness meant Piers could just sit back watch the guy make a fool of himself live on tv.

Its funny that Alex Jones went on a rant about meds because he seems like someone who could use some.


Which is exactly why he was the one chosen to come on....

I'm not a big gun person...in fact, I have debated for stricter gun laws on here...but damn, that was so transparent on CNN's part that it isn't even funny. It was pretty pathetic actually. And Morgan is an ass.
 
Dnno1 really? Cellphone, that is your protection. What? Is it from the 1990's and it fits in the front seat of your car, so you are going to throw it at them?
 
Dnno1 really? Cellphone, that is your protection. What? Is it from the 1990's and it fits in the front seat of your car, so you are going to throw it at them?

Yes, a cellphone.

"Get back, or I'll call the police, and they'll be here in seven to ten minutes! ...assuming they don't put me on hold."

Provided you get service in that closet your are hiding in, of course.

You don't have to give any warning. Just dial (or speed dial) 911.
 
"Get back, or I'll call the police, and they'll be here in seven to ten minutes! ...assuming they don't put me on hold."

Provided you get service in that closet your are hiding in, of course.
The police don't put you on hold during emergency calls. Usually people who get placed on hold called up with some bullsh**, even though they'll swear it was really, really, important. What bizarre Michael Bay picture did you get that notion from?
 
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The Second Amendment is an archaic law for an archaic time. This isn't the 1800s, it's the 21st century. I'm not saying guns should be banned outright. But you certainly shouldn't be able to buy guns and ammo from a ****ing Walmart.
 
After doing a bit of research a while ago after the massacre at the TDKR showing, there is more gun deaths in America than the whole of Europe per annum. A lot more. Can't remember the exact figures but it was something like 10,000 in America and 300 in Europe. Not exactly a small margin. It's a real issue that needs to be confronted, not shrugged off as hippy liberals whinging. Changing the gun laws isn't the only thing that needs to be done. It's a cultural thing.
 
The Second Amendment is an archaic law for an archaic time.

How so? Has the world suddenly become crimeless? Have people in power suddenly stopped becoming corrupt? Sorry, but the fact that it is the 21st Century has nothing to do with the right to own weapons.

But you certainly shouldn't be able to buy guns and ammo from a ****ing Walmart.

Admittedly, this has always felt extremely odd to me. If Walmart stopped selling ammo and the few rifles they're allowed to carry, I wouldn't shed a tear.
 
Because the 1800s were lawless. It was literally kill or be killed. There wasn't law enforcement like there is today.
 
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