Discussion: The Second Amendment

[SentinelMind]

You live in a sick and twisted world, not me.

You obviously live a very sheltered, insulated world. Step outside your comfort zone and things can change.

I have no fear when I walk down the street or when I go to bed. I don't even lock my doors.

Good for you. Not everybody has the luxurious that you currently take for granted, so its presumptuous for you to dismiss the needs of others to protect themselves just because you've never walked in their shoes. There are people who can't walk down their street and feel safe. There are people who are afraid to hang out in their own neighborhood and can't afford to go elsewhere. There are women or elderly people who live in a relatively safe suburban area and still have been mugged or raped because they left their sliding glass door open.

I feel safe and am happy where my life is going..so this isn't about me being paranoid or demanding everyone own a gun. I'm defending people's right to protect themselves...to choose how and whether they want to protect themselves.....to put their responsibility to defend themselves in their own hands and not in the hands of their government.

The fact of the matter is this...if you outlaw guns...only the criminals will have them.

 

[Paroxysm]

You obviously live a very sheltered, insulated world. Step outside your comfort zone and things can change.

I'd hardly call Vancouver "sheltered and insulated" but that's cool. It gets cold up here.

The fact of the matter is this...if you outlaw guns...only the criminals will have them.

Australia has explicitly outlawed gun ownership. The police officers in Australia are still required to carry guns. When guns are outlawed in a country, it won't ONLY be outlaws who possess guns.

So Police officers will continue to carry guns in a society which bans them.

 

[SentinelMind]

Australia has explicitly outlawed gun ownership. The police officers in Australia are still required to carry guns. When guns are outlawed in a country, it won't ONLY be outlaws who possess guns.

So Police officers will continue to carry guns in a society which bans them.

Police will always have guns regardless of whether there is a ban. The black market will have guns whether or not there is a ban. The only ones who won't have a gun is the law-abiding citizen. The criminal who wants to rob or assault isn't going to respect a ban on guns.

So citizens should just put their faith in the police arriving on time at all times, that's it? People shouldn't be given the ability to at least protect themselves and their property?

Could part of the reason Canada has a significantly higher armed robbery and property crime rate than America because their citizens feel they should have ability to protect themselves? Criminals have repeatedly admitted they fear armed homeowners than police officers. The fear of being shot in someone's home is greater than fear of being arrested.

Newark NJ just laid off like 1/10 of its police force and its the most dangerous city in this country. Police are being laid off left and right. I'm all for police, but am against disarming the public and leaving people at mercy of some agency which can be underfunded to protect themselves.

 

[Paroxysm]

Could part of the reason Canada has a significantly higher armed robbery and property crime rate than America.

That may be true but less than 0.3% of all the firearms in Canada are used for a violent purpose and up here twenty-nine per cent of Canadian homes possess an estimated total of nine million firearms. Go figure.

 

[Marx]

Rachel Maddow is having a great segment on this subject right now. It's interesting how certain people on the right have turned the second amendment into a right to 'have the ability to overthrow the tyrannical government' instead of what it truly is. She pointed out that President W. Bush campaigned on the exact same gun philosophy that President Obama has...yet there was little to no outrage.

Food for thought.

 

[Kelly]

I would venture to say it goes down the same line that there was political hate rhetoric used by left leaning websites, left leaning pundits, left leaning radio....etc....etc....and nothing was said by the left.

If it does not work in favor of the side of the political spectrum one believes in, then it is not useful in the debate....if it does work in favor of the side of the political spectrum one believes in it will be used to the furthest point of a debate whether it is truly relevant to the debate or not.....the news story that has sparked all of this discussion is a testament to that.

 

[Kelly]

Just something that was sent to me via my facebook, thought it was interesting...

If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat ! Remember: Hold the person accountable for their actions, not the means they chose to utilize!!!

Not a quote from me, just something I read....

 

[Kelly]

I'd hardly call Vancouver "sheltered and insulated" but that's cool. It gets cold up here.

I have no fear when I walk down the street or when I go to bed. I don't even lock my doors.

I'm assuming that this is a quote from you that Sentinel used....I didn't have time to go back and check.....

If it is, then these two posts together show a very strong naive outlook on your life, and if others live with you, and it is your decision to leave your door unlocked, your naive outlook could quite possibly turn to something you might never expect.

I'm not saying "go buy a gun".....but lock your damn door.....

 

[StorminNorman]

Rachel Maddow is having a great segment on this subject right now. It's interesting how certain people on the right have turned the second amendment into a right to 'have the ability to overthrow the tyrannical government' instead of what it truly is. She pointed out that President W. Bush campaigned on the exact same gun philosophy that President Obama has...yet there was little to no outrage.

Food for thought.

When I look for Constitutional clarification I opt not for Maddow nor Bush nor Obama but the Founders.

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson

Can you explain where Jefferson is wrong?

 

[Paroxysm]

I'm assuming that this is a quote from you that Sentinel used....I didn't have time to go back and check.....

If it is, then these two posts together show a very strong naive outlook on your life, and if others live with you, and it is your decision to leave your door unlocked, your naive outlook could quite possibly turn to something you might never expect.

I'm not saying "go buy a gun".....but lock your damn door.....

No it doesn't, it's just your opinion on my outlook of life, and based on what? a quote? You're being naive. I know what to expect, I know my neighborhood better than you do.

 

[Paroxysm]

the Founders.

Actually Native American's were living in what you call "American" long before your fathers "found it". So more like the Immigrants.

 

[Kelly]

No it doesn't, it's just your opinion on my outlook of life, and based on what? a quote? You're being naive. I know what to expect, I know my neighborhood better than you do.

Honestly Paroxysm, the main point of my post was....the part about "lock your door".

I really don't care right now about people's opinion on guns, or their opinion on the 2nd amendment.....I just really think you should lock your doors...there really wasn't any other point in my post.

My comment on you being naive was not meant to be a slam, I actually enjoy seeing in many cases people that are still naive to think that life is chilled enough to be unafraid, I just don't think that is an area where being naive is smart, that's all.

 

[Paroxysm]

Honestly Paroxysm, the main point of my post was....the part about "lock your door".

I really don't care right now about people's opinion on guns, or their opinion on the 2nd amendment.....I just really think you should lock your doors...there really wasn't any other point in my post.

Thanks for your concern(and I'm being honest) but you don't have to worry Kel, no ones going to break into my house and "Jack me up like Nicholas".

 

[StorminNorman]

Actually Native American's were living in what you call "American" long before your fathers "found it". So more like the Immigrants.

LOL, cute.

Of course the problem here is that the "America" you are referring to is the continent itself which, while beautiful, is obviously irrelevant to the deciphering the Constitution.

 

[Paroxysm]

LOL, cute.

Of course the problem here is that the "America" you are referring to is the continent itself which, while beautiful, is obviously irrelevant to the deciphering the Constitution.

I know, just pointing it out. The term "founding fathers" always bugged me. Canada, "United States", we both screwed the Natives.

 

[TheVileOne]

Paroxysm, so ****ing what? If it bothers you that much donate all your possessions to a Native American reservation or casino and move to Europe or where ever.

And once again, there is nothing wrong with people who want to hunt and kill their own food which is more humane than slaughterhouses.

 

[Paroxysm]

Paroxysm, so ****ing what? If it bothers you that much donate all your possessions to a Native American reservation or casino and move to Europe or where ever.

The truth brah.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Paroxysm, so ****ing what? If it bothers you that much donate all your possessions to a Native American reservation or casino and move to Europe or where ever.

I love how some on the right use absolutes when anyone expresses displeasure about a flaw in the system or dares to criticize the founding fathers. "Move to Europe!" seems to be the standard battle-cry. I think libertarians should all move to Somalia because there's NO government there. And plenty of guns of course.

And actually, I'd call "screwing the natives" an extremely polite way to describe genocide. There shouldn't be any debate about what we did to them.

 

[doih]

You live in a sick and twisted world, not me.

I have no fear when I walk down the street or when I go to bed. I don't even lock my doors.

I feel safe in my own country. I don't like my current government but I also sure as hell don't fear them.

How can you live in a place like that?

Ok, let's try something a little different.

Do you have home insurance, or any other type of insurance that you're not required to own due to govt regulations? If you do, have you ever needed to make a claim? If you haven't needed to make a claim (which is most people), why do you have insurance?

I'm not some assclown who drinks beer and fires his ak into the air for the lulz. Owning a firearm is like having insurance. You hope you never need to use it, but it's there in case you need to use it.

When's the last time your property had a fire? Never? Why don't you throw out your fire extinguisher, your smoke alarms, etc.?

I called Shenanigans and he told me to read this article:

Lax State Gun Laws Tied to Crimes in Other States

States that have lax gun laws contribute to crimes in other States. That's the real fact of the matter. You can read the Trace the Guns report here.

*sigh*

yes, people can get guns in states that have laxer gun laws then go to states with strict gun laws and commit crimes. So to people with your political persuasion, we should take away all the guns from law abiding people and implement full gun control, because that will stop people who want to commit crimes from obtaining guns.

Like Kel and others have stated, enforce the regulations of who is allowed to obtain a gun better. Strict background checks, mental health screenings, etc.
C'mon people. Bad guys don't follow the rules. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people. But wait! Didn't he know that you're not supposed to bring a gun to campus? He probably did. Which is why he shot up a campus with impunity.

If you still support gun control, you join an illustrious group of humanity's greatest people such as Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Imperial Japan, Maoist China, Khmer Cambodia, and others. Yeah, I went there.

 

[StorminNorman]

I know, just pointing it out. The term "founding fathers" always bugged me. Canada, "United States", we both screwed the Natives.

It shouldn't. There is nothing remotely offensive about referring to the people who established the American Government as the "Founding Fathers". It's actually more offensive that it is offensive than anything else, but it's not your fault. If the Canadian educational system is anything like the American you were taught from an early age the necessity of white guilt.

 

[Franklin Richards]

If you still support gun control, you join an illustrious group of humanity's greatest people such as Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Imperial Japan, Maoist China, Khmer Cambodia, and others. Yeah, I went there.

Don't forget Jesus.

 

[Franklin Richards]

When I look for Constitutional clarification I opt not for Maddow nor Bush nor Obama but the Founders.

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson

Can you explain where Jefferson is wrong?

Jefferson is wrong unless the people have RPG's, Drones, tanks, and tactical nukes.


Thinking that you can match the government with your glock is the real naivety.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Jefferson is wrong unless the people have RPG's, Drones, tanks, and tactical nukes.


Thinking that you can match the government with your glock is the real naivety.

Co-signed.

 

[StorminNorman]

Jefferson is wrong unless the people have RPG's, Drones, tanks, and tactical nukes.


Thinking that you can match the government with your glock is the real naivety.

I missed where Jefferson said the citizenry had to be as well armed as the government.

The implausibility of being able to fight off the might of the government with a glock is hardly a valid justification for further handicapping the citizen. If anything it would tell me that we should remove all limits on arms.

That reminds me of a great libertarian self-depreciating joke about how the reason the Libertarian Party could be successful because "there is no mass constituency for seven-year-old heroine dealers to buy tanks with their profits from prostitution".

 

[Franklin Richards]

I thought you were a realist? A pragmatist? Where's the logic in facing the Empire with sticks and stones?