Discussion: The Second Amendment

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Damn, my information must be slighted because I get it from the news. :whatever:


Did you ever clarify why someone needs to own a 50 cal. Sniper Rifle? not that they could, why do they need that type of gun as a civilian in the U.S.?

News isn't fact but think what you want.

I've answered your question several times. So, go re-read my responses and then if you still don't understand I'll explain it again.
 
well, I'm at work right now so I can't dig that far, but here is something from a quick google search. Of course, you have to weave around the crazy to find it...

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Sep15/0,4670,AssaultWeaponAttacks,00.html

thats from 2 years ago, and there was another case recently where a gang banger was caught at a traffic stop and was fired on with a police officer with one of those Chinese AK-47 rip-off.

Page Cannot be found.

You're only giving stories of single events. Where is the statistical evidence that there is an increase in gun violence?
 
I dont own a gun, so they could all end up in the trash for all I care. Sure, some of the old ones are kinda cool, but they belong in museums.
 
That's not evidence of rise in attacks. That is just one unfortunate event.

If it's not hard to find cases, then you should be able to find some to support your arguments.

I'm sure this will get belittled because of the source, but...

In the four years since the federal assault weapons ban expired on September 15, 2004, at least 163 people have been killed and 185 wounded with military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, including at least 38 police officers killed or wounded, according to a report issued by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/research-americans-less-safe-since-assault-weapon-ban-ended


Paradyme said:
I've answered your question several times. So, go re-read my responses and then if you still don't understand I'll explain it again

NVM, I seen it. I understand your viewpoint, but I never looked at guns as being a "fun" tool. Apparently, neither do police and local authorities.
 
I'm sure this will get belittled because of the source, but...

In the four years since the federal assault weapons ban expired on September 15, 2004, at least 163 people have been killed and 185 wounded with military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, including at least 38 police officers killed or wounded, according to a report issued by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/research-americans-less-safe-since-assault-weapon-ban-ended




NVM, I seen it. I understand your viewpoint, but I never looked at guns as being a "fun" tool. Apparently, neither do police and local authorities.

Target practice and skeet shooting is fun. Its a stress reliever. Although guns should never under any circumstance be considered a toy.

I'd like to point to a comment below the article you posted

The Brady Campaign also reports that in the US, 30,000 die annually with "gun shot" as the cause of death. OK. Helmke's hope is that we think "wow, these so-called assault weapons are really the gun of choice for murderers." Well, think about it. It's been 4.5 years since the federal ban on certain semiauto firearms has been lifted. If you do the math, that means during those 4.5 years, one-tenth of one percent of gun-related deaths were attributable to these so-called "assault weapons." Helmke obviously hopes that people aren't capable of math ... but when you look at it, these firearms account for a miniscule and insignificant number of gunshot deaths. Insignificant means that in the big picture, they don't even matter.
 
well, I'm at work right now so I can't dig that far, but here is something from a quick google search. Of course, you have to weave around the crazy to find it...

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Sep15/0,4670,AssaultWeaponAttacks,00.html

thats from 2 years ago, and there was another case recently where a gang banger was caught at a traffic stop and was fired on with a police officer with one of those Chinese AK-47 rip-off.

It's not hard to find gang crime committed with assault weapons. If anything, look up police data, they are the main group pushing for Ban's.

Unfortunately, the only real demographic that the Assault Weapons ban affects are those who buy them legally from the dealers. Gangs and criminals who decide to use the Black Market are not affected at all by the ban. In fact, the Black Market dealers will see a rise in sales because they no longer have to compete with the licensed dealers.

I can just imagine the conversation," Yo, yo, gee. They passed that Assault Weapons ban today. I can't go to tha dealer and get dat Tech 9 I's been lookin' at. Cain't go off on dat drive by no more, yo. Guess we'll go on down to the Y and volunteer for Meals on Wheels instead!"

Yeah......right.
 
Target practice and skeet shooting is fun. Its a stress reliever. Although guns should never under any circumstance be considered a toy.

I'd like to point to a comment below the article you posted

I'd be curious as to what the number was during the ban.
 
Banning anything but AntiTank weapons (and the high-cyclic rate guns like machine guns on tripods) is insane in my view...
 
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.


So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese
assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/ele...-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

Take it or leave it.
 
Banning anything but AntiTank weapons (and the high-cyclic rate guns like machine guns on tripods) is insane in my view...

I want my Anti Tank weapon dad gummit....keep them kids off the lawn
 
That is not a mass shooting; it is a hostage situation.
 
I agree with the previous poster that gun control wouldn't have caused this. The fact is as long as there are people walking God's green Earth people will find a way to get weapons whether it be illegal or legal. While tougher regulations might stop SOME crime, if people really want to do something they will find a way to do it.

The talk about gun control just helps the firearm industry. My dad went to go get another gun permit around a year ago and was able to walk away with it the same day. I went to get a gun permit in January 09 and they said they were backlog over a month and a half because people were scared Obama would change the gun laws. I'm for some gun control but I don't kid myself into think it will stop any problems.
 
I agree with the previous poster that gun control wouldn't have caused this.

Isn't it to early to speculate about that? The authorities are still investigating what happened.

The fact is as long as there are people walking God's green Earth people will find a way to get weapons whether it be illegal or legal. While tougher regulations might stop SOME crime, if people really want to do something they will find a way to do it.
True. Rules should definitely be stricter, though. They would make it much more difficult for criminals and the mentally ill to get them instead of almost nothing.

The talk about gun control just helps the firearm industry. My dad went to go get another gun permit around a year ago and was able to walk away with it the same day.

It should be harder to get a gun permit then that IMO.

I went to get a gun permit in January 09 and they said they were backlog over a month and a half because people were scared Obama would change the gun laws.
What are they expecting him to do? Take all their guns by force?

I'm for some gun control but I don't kid myself into think it will stop any problems.

It wouldn't stop all gun problems, but it would stop many. That's a worthy cause IMO.
 
Gun control wouldn't have prevented this.
I completely agree. If someone INSIDE the building had a gun, it could have prevented this. As insensitive as that sounds, it's the truth.
 
I completely agree. If someone INSIDE the building had a gun, it could have prevented this. As insensitive as that sounds, it's the truth.
Not necessarily. That could have not only gotten the shooter killed, but the person with the gun and any bystanders who are unlucky enough to get in the way. The shooter could have also taken the gun from the person if they were injured during the shootout, as well. Which would make the situation worse for everyone.
 
Sube:

Reread my previous post. I updated it explaining why.
 
Not necessarily. That could have not only gotten the shooter killed, but the person with the gun and any bystanders who are unlucky enough to get in the way. The shooter could have also taken the gun from the person if they were injured during the shootout, as well. Which would make the situation worse for everyone.

Or the person could have shot and killed the shooter. They wouldn't have pulled the gun on him with him looking. They would have done it with his back turned and then unloaded a clip into him.
 
True. Rules should definitely be stricter, though. They would make it much more difficult for criminals and the mentally ill to get them instead of almost nothing.

Right because criminals are all about going through proper legal channels, right...:huh:

It should be harder to get a gun permit then that IMO.

Why? Do you think possession of a permit makes one more likely to use a gun illegally? If someone wants to harm someone, they don't need a permit to get one. Added regulation only separates responsible gun owners from these weapons.

It wouldn't stop all gun problems, but it would stop many. That's a worthy cause IMO.

Name one.
 
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