Supreme Court to consider D.C. handgun ban

[justinlancaster]

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court said Tuesday it will decide whether the District of Columbia can ban handguns, a case that could produce the most in-depth examination of the constitutional right to "keep and bear arms" in nearly 70 years.
The justices' decision to hear the case could make the divisive debate over guns an issue in the 2008 presidential and congressional elections.
The government of Washington, D.C., is asking the court to uphold its 31-year ban on handgun ownership in the face of a federal appeals court ruling that struck down the ban as incompatible with the Second Amendment. Tuesday's announcement was widely expected, especially after both the District and the man who challenged the handgun ban asked for the high court review. A lower court struck down the ban as a violation of the Second Amendment rights of gun ownership.
rest of the article here ----> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21901379/

What do you guys think?

 

[cundog]

I think guns have little place in a supposedly civilised society. Here in the UK, guns are illegal...it doesn't stop people being killed by them but it will at least keep the number down to a minimum. I think it is only right that the ownership of handguns should be completely banned.

 

[Warhammer]

I don't think the ban will pass.

 

[justinlancaster]

I think guns have little place in a supposedly civilised society. Here in the UK, guns are illegal...it doesn't stop people being killed by them but it will at least keep the number down to a minimum. I think it is only right that the ownership of handguns should be completely banned.

How does it keep the number of killings down when you essentially take the guns out of lawful citizens hands and leave them open to vitimization at the will of criminals that do not care for nor obey gun laws.

And the UK's gun crimes have been on the rise since the gun ban.
http://www.connected.gov.uk/facts/guncrime/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm

 

[LexCorp]

I think guns have little place in a supposedly civilised society. Here in the UK, guns are illegal...it doesn't stop people being killed by them but it will at least keep the number down to a minimum. I think it is only right that the ownership of handguns should be completely banned.

I will agree with that having lived in the UK since I was born and then a year or two in the states.

But saying that the UK is much smaller than the USA and is easy to police.

 

[bell110]

Considering the supreme court is more right leaning now, I say they will repeal the gun ban.

 

[cundog]

How does it keep the number of killings down when you essentially take the guns out of lawful citizens hands and leave them open to vitimization at the will of criminals that do not care for nor obey gun laws.

And the UK's gun crimes have been on the rise since the gun ban.
http://www.connected.gov.uk/facts/guncrime/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm

Introducing a gun ban is not "essentially taking the guns out of lawful citizens hands, leaving them open to vitimization at the will of criminals"...it is there to protect the citizens. How many school shootings have occured in America in recent history? How many people are killed or injured by accident because their own relatives have shot them? Of course, I can think of some examples of this in the UK also but it happens far less than in America...this is where the gun ban is effective.

And I didn't state that gun crime had gone down...incidents of needless killings like those of Dunblane have on the other hand. Guns are still attractive to criminals, perhaps even more so now the ban is in effect.

EDIT: Just had a quick check...according to this story, overall gun crime is actually down this year compared to last year:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm

 

[cundog]

I will agree with that having lived in the UK since I was born and then a year or two in the states.

But saying that the UK is much smaller than the USA and is easy to police.

I wouldn't say that any nation was particularly easy to police...regardless of its' size. Over 60 million people live in the UK, hardly an easy number to police! Lol.

 

[justinlancaster]

Introducing a gun ban is not "essentially taking the guns out of lawful citizens hands, leaving them open to vitimization at the will of criminals"...it is there to protect the citizens. How many school shootings have occured in America in recent history? How many people are killed or injured by accident because their own relatives have shot them? Of course, I can think of some examples of this in the UK also but it happens far less than in America...this is where the gun ban is effective.

And I didn't state that gun crime had gone down...incidents of needless killings like those of Dunblane have on the other hand. Guns are still attractive to criminals, perhaps even more so now the ban is in effect.

School shootings and familiy members getting killed by accident are few and far between. Just because they get blasted accross the mainstream media doesn't mean they are everyday occurrences. As far as gun bans protecting the citizens, I think I would rather leave the decision of protecting the citizens up to the citizens themselves rather than currupt bureaucrats.

To me, its unrealistic to take guns away from law abiding citizens in the name of safety. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for packing a gun.

 

[cundog]

School shootings and familiy members getting killed by accident are few and far between. Just because they get blasted accross the mainstream media doesn't mean they are everyday occurrences. As far as gun bans protecting the citizens, I think I would rather leave the decision of protecting the citizens up to the citizens themselves rather than currupt bureaucrats.

To me, its unrealistic to take guns away from law abiding citizens in the name of safety. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for packing a gun.

How very Marxist of you! Lol.

I wasn't trying to imply that they were everyday occurances, just that they are more common because guns are so readily available to people. But fair enough...I can see your point about guns also being a deterrent for criminals; but I believe that they do much more harm than good.

 

[DV8]

while I agree that handguns are of no common necessity for what should be a 'civilized' society, it's not that simple . . . I would be all for banning handguns in our nation's most dangerous cities, but it's just not realistic, and why should every proud, rule-following gun owner have to suffer?

 

[kainedamo]

How does it keep the number of killings down when you essentially take the guns out of lawful citizens hands and leave them open to vitimization at the will of criminals that do not care for nor obey gun laws.

And the UK's gun crimes have been on the rise since the gun ban.
http://www.connected.gov.uk/facts/guncrime/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm

That's down to social circumstances.

The gun crime rate would be ALOT higher if guns were legal in the UK, believe me.

Seriously, "criminals ignore the law" is a pretty weak reason to not ban guns. You might aswell legalize stealing seeing as criminals ignore that particular law.

 

[kainedamo]

while I agree that handguns are of no common necessity for what should be a 'civilized' society, it's not that simple . . . I would be all for banning handguns in our nation's most dangerous cities, but it's just not realistic, and why should every proud, rule-following gun owner have to suffer?

For the greater good, for the safety of everyone else.

Just taking out the factor of teenage kids that go psycho and take Daddys gun and decide to kill a dozen innocent people, there are still alot of accidental gun deaths.

Banning smoking in public is reasonable because second hand smoke is harmful. Its clear from the figures that if less people had guns, less accidents would happen, the nation would be happier and safer overall.

 

[AhabTheArab]

yea the government banned marijuana and you can't find that **** anywhere! or not. if you want to get a gun, you dont have to buy it at the store. banning guns is ******ed.

 

[DV8]

That's down to social circumstances.

The gun crime rate would be ALOT higher if guns were legal in the UK, believe me.

Seriously, "criminals ignore the law" is a pretty weak reason to not ban guns. You might aswell legalize stealing seeing as criminals ignore that particular law.

not really, though . . . while there are certainly many accidental gun deaths, a majority of those deaths are attributed to illegal ownership of guns, and criminal acts . . . those people will always find a way to have a gun . . . and if I'm a law-abiding homeowner, I would like some kind of protection as it's my right to choose . . .

 

[kainedamo]

not really, though . . . while there are certainly many accidental gun deaths, a majority of those deaths are attributed to illegal ownership of guns, and criminal acts . . . those people will always find a way to have a gun . . . and if I'm a law-abiding homeowner, I would like some kind of protection as it's my right to choose . . .

Ugh...

I've lived most of my entire life in an area that is considered one of the roughest in Belfast.

Belfast, in Northern Ireland, where there was a WAR for 30 years.

I have never needed a ****ing gun. Christ. Gun discussion angers me, its like trying to explain to a kid why its a bad idea for him to play with knifes, except the kid is at least smart enough to use the "self-defense" argument.

Actually, thats a funny thing. You know how many kids run around with knives in the UK, claiming they need it for "protection", and then the dumb bastards stab either each other or someone innocent? They actually think they need it for protection 'cause of all the other idiots with knives. Imagine these stupid *******s could get guns, how much worse that would get.

****ing americans. I swear. What other western country would react so apathetically to so many shootings in schools? What is it about your culture that makes you guys think global warming is a liberal farce, communists are out to get you, and that owning a deadly weapon is your god given right?

For every child that has accidentally blown his head off in the US, the blame lies with guys like you.

 

[Halcohol]

Kaine, if you look at American history, it was the average citizen bearing arms that won the American Revolution and threw the British out of the colonies. It's ingrained in their historical mindset that the right of the citizens to protect themselves from the tyranny of the state is of paramount importance and needed to be put into the Constitution.

That's why I don't understand how the handgun ban was successful in the first place. Personally, I don't believe the capital district of their nation should ever need to give citizens the right to be armed due to the mass amount of military force within short distance, but it's still their Constitutional right.

 

[kainedamo]

Kaine, if you look at American history, it was the average citizen bearing arms that won the American Revolution and threw the British out of the colonies. It's ingrained in their historical mindset that the right of the citizens to protect themselves from the tyranny of the state is of paramount importance and needed to be put into the Constitution.

What you guys need to start recognising is that was the past. Times have changed. Too many guns are in the hands of too many of the wrong people because the gun industry has become an absolute monster. Paranoid hicks walking around with a gun under their belt and letting it fall into the hands of children is not what the constitution was meant for. Honest citizens having their guns stolen and then used for crime is not what it was meant for. It is now time to recognise that the guns don't have the same meaning that they once had, and they are a negative on the society rather than a positive.

That's why I don't understand how the handgun ban was successful in the first place. Personally, I don't believe the capital district of their nation should ever need to give citizens the right to be armed due to the mass amount of military force within short distance, but it's still their Constitutional right.

If thats what people are gonna keep clinging to, then the Constitution needs to be ammended to fit closer with these modern times.

 

[AhabTheArab]

^ good luck getting that across to the 'paranoid hicks' as you put it. because if their CONSTITUTIONAL rights are in danger... i guarantee they will come out to vote. guarantee. and you won't just get that crowd either....

 

[kainedamo]

^ good luck getting that across to the 'paranoid hicks' as you put it. because if their CONSTITUTIONAL rights are in danger... i guarantee they will come out to vote. guarantee. and you won't just get that crowd either....

It seems to me they only come out when its a right being changed that is convenient to them.

Americans don't seem to mind being spied on, or having the Patriot Act, or nuking Hiroshima, or kicking out perfecly decent people 'cause they might be communists, or locking up thousands upon thousands of innocent Japanese people. Americans don't even notice that kind of crap. But even attempt to tell them their gun laws are out of date?? They come out in all their roaring force.

 

[justinlancaster]

What you guys need to start recognising is that was the past. Times have changed. Too many guns are in the hands of too many of the wrong people because the gun industry has become an absolute monster. Paranoid hicks walking around with a gun under their belt and letting it fall into the hands of children is not what the constitution was meant for. Honest citizens having their guns stolen and then used for crime is not what it was meant for. It is now time to recognise that the guns don't have the same meaning that they once had, and they are a negative on the society rather than a positive.

-Times have not changed as dramatically as you think. The only thing that has changed is technology. Tyrannical governments still thrive today just as they did in the past. Slavery thrives just as it has in the past. Wars thrive just as they have in the past so I'm not sure what you're point is. Are we any smarter or more enlightened than civilizations of the past? I don't think so and I think its very arrogant to think otherwise.

The constitution was written in a way to keep Americans free and the government in check so that it doesn't overstep its boundaries and turn into a dictorship type government.



If thats what people are gonna keep clinging to, then the Constitution needs to be ammended to fit closer with these modern times.

-The constitution is fine and if politicians didn't ignore it as much as they do now, we would be in a better postion.

 

[chamber-music]

Seriously its a cultural thing. There isn't really a point arguing about gun control with americans its to ingrained in their history/culture. I'm not put any american down I'm just saying that to europeans unless your hunting or what ever they don't really have a big gun loving culture.

Although I really don't understand the whole we need guns arguement. Its obvious you need guns because everyone else has guns. At the end of the day its up to people but I can sleep safe in my home and walk through the streets and not feel the need to carry or own a deadly weapon.

 

[justinlancaster]

For the greater good, for the safety of everyone else.

Just taking out the factor of teenage kids that go psycho and take Daddys gun and decide to kill a dozen innocent people, there are still alot of accidental gun deaths.

Banning smoking in public is reasonable because second hand smoke is harmful. Its clear from the figures that if less people had guns, less accidents would happen, the nation would be happier and safer overall.

-Yes, because teenage kids go to school everyday and kill everyone. Banning guns because of this seems like an emotional knee jerk reaction. Let’s take guns away from law abiding citizens because some psycho kid decided to go nutso and kill people. That’s overkill.

There have been instances of school shootings in America where the shooter was held off by students until the cops arrived because they had guns in their cars.

Ugh...

I've lived most of my entire life in an area that is considered one of the roughest in Belfast.

Belfast, in Northern Ireland, where there was a WAR for 30 years.

I have never needed a ****ing gun. Christ. Gun discussion angers me, its like trying to explain to a kid why its a bad idea for him to play with knifes, except the kid is at least smart enough to use the "self-defense" argument……****ing americans. I swear. What other western country would react so apathetically to so many shootings in schools? What is it about your culture that makes you guys think global warming is a liberal farce, communists are out to get you, and that owning a deadly weapon is your god given right?

For every child that has accidentally blown his head off in the US, the blame lies with guys like you.

-If the topic angers you so much then don’t post. And what country would knee jerk so bad and ban all guns because of a couple messed up kids. Global warming? You know there are a lot of liberals in America. You would know that if you had any idea how America functions. Communists are out to get us? Not really sure what you mean there. Owning a deadly weapon is our god given right? Its not our god given right but our constitutional right.
And for every family that gets burglarized, murdered or raped because they were not able to adequately protect themselves, the blame lies with guys like you.

It seems to me they only come out when its a right being changed that is convenient to them.

Americans don't seem to mind being spied on, or having the Patriot Act, or nuking Hiroshima, or kicking out perfecly decent people 'cause they might be communists, or locking up thousands upon thousands of innocent Japanese people. Americans don't even notice that kind of crap. But even attempt to tell them their gun laws are out of date?? They come out in all their roaring force.

-Obviously you have no grasp as to what goes on in America. There are plenty of people that fight against the patriot act. As for the situations regarding the Japanese or calling people communists, no country is perfect. I’m sure at the time there were plenty of people fighting against these things. And if you want to bring up blemishes in the history of America, lets start bring up the history of the UK. I bet its pretty colorful.

You have no grasp of our constitution and why certain rights are given to us. You have no idea what goes on in America on a day to day. Apparently we are all right wingers who don't believe in global warming. You can't repectfully debate with people without responding to them as ****ing Americans or paranoid hicks. Why are you in this discussion?

 

[justinlancaster]

Seriously its a cultural thing. There isn't really a point arguing about gun control with americans its to ingrained in their history/culture. I'm not put any american down I'm just saying that to europeans unless your hunting or what ever they don't really have a big gun loving culture.

Although I really don't understand the whole we need guns arguement. Its obvious you need guns because everyone else has guns. At the end of the day its up to people but I can sleep safe in my home and walk through the streets and not feel the need to carry or own a deadly weapon.

You're right. And I have no problems with Europeans not wanting guns in their cultures. Thats totally up to them and how their countries have developed over the years. The US constitution was written a certain way to give the people the ultimate say so and the founding fathers thought that it would be wise to arm the citizens to keep the government in check if need be. Its just a difference in cultures. I just don't like it when I or anyone else gets called a "paranoid hick" because we feel its necessary to own and resposibly operate guns.

 

[Halcohol]

There have been instances of school shootings in America where the shooter was held off by students until the cops arrived because they had guns in their cars.

This seems right to you? That kids at school SHOULD be allowed to have guns in the interests of security?

And for every family that gets burglarized, murdered or raped because they were not able to adequately protect themselves, the blame lies with guys like you.

I hope you didn't throw your back out with this giant load of bulls***.