Discussion: The Second Amendment

[Franklin Richards]

We already had a bloodless coup. Where were your guns in the 2000 Election?

 

[moraldeficiency]

Isn't that why there are laws made to restrict bad driving habits? Like drinking while driving, wearing seatbelts, etc.?

Yes and there are laws against bad gun habits as well. But their shouldn't be laws against someone with a clean record possessing a gun the same way there aren't laws against possessing a car with a clean record.

 

[Addendum]

That's pretty much my attitude towards the whole thing. When the government starts taking the stance of "we need to make sure that the people can't overthrow us," it's a very dangerous road to go down. The founding fathers gave us the second amendment so that we could abolish a tyrannical government by force if we had to, and as long as we can get guns it's very unlikely that a tyrannical government can come to power. If you set the people up to be in a position where they'd have no means to defend themselves against a rogue government though, then you might as well burn the constitution because it's as good as gone.

And if those semi-auto bans were reversed, it wouldn't guarantee success. One would still have to be able to properly fire and maintain it. If force is taken against a "tyrannical government", they're not going to stand there like the targets do on the range. So combat training would be necessary. The infantry is just one aspect of a land army, so there would be a need for those who can operate the artillery because there could be opportunities where they could be used, either in combat or stolen. Medical care would definitely be a plus, so something more than simple first aid would be needed. I doubt insurance would cover it though.

There would also be naval warfare as well, but jetskis, speedboats, yachts and dingys just don't stand a chance with the main vessels in the navy, though not all those vessels can get to some parts of the US.

As for air combat, the Air Force, the Air National Guard, the Marine's aviation, the Navy's aviation, no civilian craft have a chance.

And it all depends on when it happens. During football season, not a chance. Same during March Madness. Summer vacation? Families are busy heading to the beach or Disneyland. August is out since it's back to school time.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yes, of course you'd have to know how to use a gun to use a gun. But that's never changed.

They wouldn't stand there like targets, it would probably be similiar to how this nation got started.

Look people seem to think a revolution of that type would be the cities against the service when that's just blatantly false. First off you're not gonna carpet bomb a city to get at some of the people. Secondly I doubt the military would be completely behind the oppressive gov. Some would some wouldn't. But to be able to defend yourself (not against a tank but definately against a soldier) that's reasonable. And a pistol against a machine gun is not good enough. I'm not saying hand out guns to everyone, but if the VietCong can kick our ass, I'd hope US citizens could do as well.

 

[Addendum]

Viet Cong didn't have Dancing with the Stars, Vietnamese Idol, video game systems, the internet, fast food, prime time TV, pro sport leagues, wrasslin, and other things

 

[moraldeficiency]

There are still a few tough ****ers over here. I'm here so there's at least one.

 

[Addendum]

There's always going to be vets. But not everyone in the US enlists.

 

[moraldeficiency]

No, but I still know several people over here that are damn good shots, never been in the service and wouldn't be useless. Besides do you really think their could be a revolution where some in the service would break apart. During the revolutionary war all we had the cops on our side, and some of the soldiers from here. During the civil war forces were broken apart at the state line. It isn't like any revolution would be hippies against the full force of the US military.

 

[Addendum]

And the same goes for those who are civilians. Some would be with the government, some would fight, some would be neutral to make money for both sides (it's a holdover from when I liked Star Wars. Han Solo and Chewie popped up), some would say **** it and move.

 

[BlackLantern]

well this civil war wouldn't be defined by state lines, but by ideological ones

 

[Timstuff]

^ Exactly.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Actually to predict it one way or the other is a bit presumptious. I would say the last civil war was over idelogical reasons that was fought over state lines. So to predict what would happen is too much. I will say any opposition to the gov would stand a chance depending on their size. What we are talking about is a last ditch senario, a final failsafe for the nation, that the people in enough numbers and with the right equiptment could become fearsome to the gov. Now it sucks that some psycho's get weapons and blast people, but they are murders anyway so one way or another they are gonna do it so that's kinda a moot point.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Is it legal to possess fully automatic guns? If so, why? Why the hell would you need to walk down the street with a MP-5 or something?

 

[Paradoxium]

Well you can switch from automatic with an MP5 technically speaking

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well you know what I mean. Why would you need a full auto gun? It diesn't take 20 bullets to put someone down.

 

[Paradyme]

Is it legal to possess fully automatic guns? If so, why? Why the hell would you need to walk down the street with a MP-5 or something?

Yes, you can but the permits cost a pretty penny and you have to renew them yearly. Hulk Hogan has automatic weapons. Or you can buy a conversion kit for your AR15 but if caught is punishable up to 20 years in prison.

People walk down streets with rifles a lot where you live?

 

[Paradyme]

Well you know what I mean. Why would you need a full auto gun? It diesn't take 20 bullets to put someone down.

That depends on how accurate the person is with said rifle.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yes, you can but the permits cost a pretty penny and you have to renew them yearly. Hulk Hogan has automatic weapons. Or you can buy a conversion kit for your AR15 but if caught is punishable up to 20 years in prison.

People walk down streets with rifles a lot where you live?

Well I'm from England, so na not guns, knives, the ***** holes.

That depends on how accurate the person is with said rifle.

Well if you are that bad a shot then you shouldn't have a gun in the first place. There should be a gun test, same way there is a driving test. If you are a piss poor aim, which could result in hitting someone you are not aiming at, then you shouldn't have a gun. Same way as if you are a piss poor driver, you can't drive a car.

 

[Paradyme]

Well I'm from England, so na not guns, knives, the ***** holes.



Well if you are that bad a shot then you shouldn't have a gun in the first place. There should be a gun test, same way there is a driving test. If you are a piss poor aim, which could result in hitting someone you are not aiming at, then you shouldn't have a gun. Same way as if you are a piss poor driver, you can't drive a car.

They do test you when you take your conceal carry course. It's a mandatory 8 hour course where you learn all about safety and functioning of a handgun. After that you MUST land so many shots in center mass from a distance of 10-15 FT.

I wouldn't mind going through a course on an automatic rifle if that is all it took to own one.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Ahh I see. Well that's cool then.

I would understand having an automatic gun at home, to defend your property. But actually taking one out and about on the streets? That's just overkill.

 

[Paradyme]

Ahh I see. Well that's cool then.

I would understand having an automatic gun at home, to defend your property. But actually taking one out and about on the streets? That's just overkill.

And a bit irresponsible. Unless, you are in a really bad Mad Max-esque gang neighborhood I don't see a point, a concealed handgun would suffice.

 

[NotFadeAway]

So, I'm assuming that everyone here knows that the right to bear arms gives us, the American people, the ability to prevent tyranny by the Federal Government and it makes us impossible to invade? This might sound sick and cold hearted, but the needs justify the ends, and if the ability to prevent tyranny and invasion results in tragedy every now in the form of some ghetto drive by or gas station hold up, so be it. Man has killed man since the dawn of time, before guns and after guns, and nothing will change that.

 

[NotFadeAway]

So, I'm assuming that everyone here knows that the right to bear arms gives us, the American people, the ability to prevent tyranny by the Federal Government and it makes us impossible to invade? This might sound sick and cold hearted, but the needs justify the ends, and if the ability to prevent tyranny and invasion results in tragedy every now in the form of some ghetto drive by or gas station hold up, so be it. Man has killed man since the dawn of time, before guns and after guns, and nothing will change that.

 

[Addendum]

Murder will cease when mankind's existence does as well

 

[NotFadeAway]

Murder will go extinct when mankind does

Exactly.