Discussion: The Second Amendment

[SuBe]

Please tell me a logical reason why a person needs an assault rifle?

Defense against a Tyrranical Government?

 

[Paradoxium]

I sure career criminals quiver in their boots at the might of skinny college hippies or yuppies who can call 911 with their superduper Blackberries.

No they prefer to rob someone at gunpoint at an NRA convention.

It is perfectly logical

Part of me does wonder what the outcome would be for those college campus shootings (i.e. Virginia Tech), if the students were actually allowed to carry concealed weapons.

 

[SuBe]

I sure career criminals quiver in their boots at the might of skinny college hippies or yuppies who can call 911 with their superduper Blackberries.

No they prefer to rob someone at gunpoint at an NRA convention.

It is perfectly logical

Part of me does wonder what the outcome would be for those college campus shootings (i.e. Virginia Tech), if the students were actually allowed to carry concealed weapons.

Brilliant.

Or that Church shooter? Remember that last year? How was he stopped?

A lady with a CCW, that's how.

 

[danoyse]

Part of me does wonder what the outcome would be for those college campus shootings (i.e. Virginia Tech), if the students were actually allowed to carry concealed weapons.

I hear that one all the time. What are the odds that more people would have been shot with even more shooting going on from all directions? I really don't think the answer is to give all the students their own gun.

I'm in favor of sensible gun control. I don't think they should be banned. I think hunter's rights need to be protected, as well as the right for someone to own a gun if they choose.

But having grown up in a metro area where guns are rarely used for anything sensible, I think there needs to be a better way of controlling who gets their hands on the guns.

 

[hammerhedd11]

Where do you live hammerhedd?

Minnesota.

 

[SuperT]

Part of me does wonder what the outcome would be for those college campus shootings (i.e. Virginia Tech), if the students were actually allowed to carry concealed weapons.

What an idea just asking for trouble, and absolutely frightening.

We can barely drink responsbily, let alone being responsible with a damn gun on campus too. Plus I don't ever see that even remotely coming close to happening. And it never should.

If I had kids, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable sending them off to college knowing their roommate or the one next them could have gun in their dorm.

People are crazy these days.

 

[SuBe]

What an idea just asking for trouble, and absolutely frightening.

We can barely drink responsbily, let alone being responsible with a damn gun on campus too. Plus I don't ever see that even remotely coming close to happening. And it never should.

If I had kids, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable sending them off to college knowing their roommate or the one next them could have gun in their dorm.

People are crazy these days.

What if that "kid" spent 4 years in the Marine Corps, where he was an Military Police Officer that is highly trained? Would that disqualify him from your dream world?

 

[SuperT]

Yep. I still wouldn't want him having a gun in a public dorm.

 

[dnno1]

I don't want kids to have guns, so I guess I'm for it.

 

[SuBe]

Yep. I still wouldn't want him having a gun in a public dorm.

So, if a kid with a gun goes on a shooting Rampage, you are fine with the Fact that it could take 5 minutes for Cops to get there, and by then it is possible to shoot, what 200+ bullets in 5 minutes? Instead of having a Trained Professional there that could actually save lives, you would rather see those lives wasted because of that ban?

You are ok with that? Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

 

[Addendum]

Jman, do you believe that even though our Government is as Strong as it is Militarilly, that we should just bow down to them? That we should never be able to defend ourselves from them? Just in Case?

Saying that certain types of weapons shouldn't be owned by law-abiding citizens isn't "bowing down to a government".

I think it was back in 2007, when news broke of a "foiled terrorist plot" against Fort Dix, it gave me a good laugh. Because there was no way those idiots would have succeeded in their plan to breach the base, kill as many soldiers as possible, and then "retreat completely without any losses". The base can have up to 15,000 troops training there on the weekends, with about 3,000 or so actually working there.

I highly doubt that any stateside group, no matter how much it loves the US, no matter how much they believe in their cause, would have a chance against our nation's military. That's not "bowing down to a government" or failing to stand up to what someone calls "tyranny". It's simply being realistic.

 

[SuBe]

Saying that certain types of weapons shouldn't be owned by law-abiding citizens isn't "bowing down to a government".

I think it was back in 2007, when news broke of a "foiled terrorist plot" against Fort Dix, it gave me a good laugh. Because there was no way those idiots would have succeeded in their plan to breach the base, kill as many soldiers as possible, and then "retreat completely without any losses". The base can have up to 15,000 troops training there on the weekends, with about 3,000 or so actually working there.

I highly doubt that any stateside group, no matter how much it loves the US, no matter how much they believe in their cause, would have a chance against our nation's military. That's not "bowing down to a government" or failing to stand up to what someone calls "tyranny". It's simply being realistic.

1/3 of the Colonists didn't support the US's Indenpendence. 1/3 was apathetic. 1/3 fought for it. I'm in the 1/3 that would fight for it, you might not be, but that's that.

 

[Addendum]

I don't agree with some of the actions of the government, but it's not like they're acting how the British government did with the colonies

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about gun control, mainly because I don't have any desire to ever own, much less fire a gun. I see the explanation of home defense used constantly, but find it kind of foolish. Here's why, say an intruder breaks into your house, if he had half a brain his first step would be to make sure said house was empty going to your or your kid's rooms first. So you hear him enter, get out of bed and since you're practicing gun safety, you get the gun from either it's hiding place and unlock the trigger lock or the safe it's kept in, then get the bullets and load the gun. What are the odds you've successfully accomplished making sure the gun is ready to fire before the halfway competent criminal/intruder has made it to your room and shot you (because you are getting a gun after all). I just don't think the having a gun (and using proper gun safety) for home protection works in a real life scenario.

 

[SuBe]

I don't agree with some of the actions of the government, but it's not like they're acting how the British government did with the colonies

Why, when the colonists fought Britian, it was over 15 days worth of work in Taxes, currently is is clost to 120 days worth of work in Taxes. They control every aspect of our life, from what we eat, what we drive, what we wear, to where we can go. They control what we see on TV to what we learn in School, to what we hear in Music. They control everything, we are in a more oppressed Society than they were.

 

[SuBe]

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about gun control, mainly because I don't have any desire to ever own, much less fire a gun. I see the explanation of home defense used constantly, but find it kind of foolish. Here's why, say an intruder breaks into your house, if he had half a brain his first step would be to make sure said house was empty going to your or your kid's rooms first. So you hear him enter, get out of bed and since you're practicing gun safety, you get the gun from either it's hiding place and unlock the trigger lock or the safe it's kept in, then get the bullets and load the gun. What are the odds you've successfully accomplished making sure the gun is ready to fire before the halfway competent criminal/intruder has made it to your room and shot you (because you are getting a gun after all). I just don't think the having a gun (and using proper gun safety) for home protection works in a real life scenario.

You answered your own Scenerio. A properly trained individual would be able to unlock and arm his weapon in the dark and under duress. I can have my shot gun out in a matter of seconds. Locked and ready.

 

[hammerhedd11]

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about gun control, mainly because I don't have any desire to ever own, much less fire a gun. I see the explanation of home defense used constantly, but find it kind of foolish. Here's why, say an intruder breaks into your house, if he had half a brain his first step would be to make sure said house was empty going to your or your kid's rooms first. So you hear him enter, get out of bed and since you're practicing gun safety, you get the gun from either it's hiding place and unlock the trigger lock or the safe it's kept in, then get the bullets and load the gun. What are the odds you've successfully accomplished making sure the gun is ready to fire before the halfway competent criminal/intruder has made it to your room and shot you (because you are getting a gun after all). I just don't think the having a gun (and using proper gun safety) for home protection works in a real life scenario.

So it makes more sense for you to just not get a gun and let the man shoot you?

 

[Metamorpho1977]

I'm not for taking away the right to bear arms. I do however, believe that there should be some tighter regulations on who is allowed to purchase them. Even that won't keep criminals from getting them. There is an old saying. If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns.

 

[Addendum]

They control every aspect of our life, from what we eat

The nutrition plan isn't enforceable by law. The Food and Drug Administration makes sure that food is properly labeled and safe for consumption. Same with the regulations regarding tap water. I see no harm in maintaining safe food and water for all citizens.

what we drive

Driving is not a right but a privilege. Opinions may vary regarding global warming, but I don't see the harm in taking efforts to lower pollution. One approach is making sure the emissions from vehicles are tolerable, and that the engines in those vehicles get good mileage. I certainly don't trust car makers to have those thoughts in place when designing their vehicles.

what we wear

The military has always had a dress code. No complaints there. Businesses have dress codes regarding their employees, and some higher-end restaurants have a dress code for their clientele. When a citizen reports for jury duty, there is a dress code as well. Some school boards have instituted dress codes in an attempt to lower instances of fights and killings among students regarding sneakers or what color your clothes are.

to where we can go

Every country issues passports to their citizens who wish to travel abroad. The only limitations are those countries that the US has an embargo, and if one is a defendant in a criminal case and poses a flight risk.

They control what we see on TV

Paid channels such as HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime have no restriction of content. Cable television has some standards but compared to the standard channels, it is looser at certain times: Cartoon Network's Adult Swim section after Prime Time, Comedy Central's Secret Stash, and Turner Classic Movies Underground lineup (A few months ago, I was able to catch Coffy and Foxy Brown)

to what we learn in School

I don't see the problem in having a standard for what is taught in every school across the nation, rather than letting a school in the Appalachia region (or any other area) decide to focus on certain subjects and ignore others.

to what we hear in Music.

Stores such as Walmart have made arrangements with record companies to have edited versions of certain albums, or simply refuse to stock certain artists. I know I'm not going to see any album by Deicide or Carcass in Walmart, but I know where I can purchase their albums if I so choose. Besides, satellite radio has much better content than terrestrial radio can ever dream of.

They control everything, we are in a more oppressed Society than they were.

The only way I could agree with you is if I give up logic and reason and embrace paranoid delusions and knee jerk emotions.

 

[SuperT]

For pete sake! With the way SuBe is talking, you'd think we were all in the midst of the Revolutionary War!!!

 

[The Chairman]

I'm for reasonable gun control. Background checks, certain types of restrictions, and whatnot are necessary, but over all I'm a firm supporter of the Second Amendment and the efforts of the NRA.

I'm with him and danoyse to an extent. Sensible gun control is fine. But if a person with a family wants one for protection and has been proven reasonable enough to be allowed own one, than that person should have one.

 

[Addendum]

For peter sake! With the way SuBe is talking, you'd think we were all in the midst of the Revolutionary War!!!

Today you have universal health care, tomorrow it's "howdy comrade"

 

[Paradoxium]

I hear that one all the time. What are the odds that more people would have been shot with even more shooting going on from all directions? I really don't think the answer is to give all the students their own gun.

If not the student at least the private security and the faculty members, no? The Virgina tech campus was a completely "gun free zone", they just never fathomed someone would actually "break the rules" and massacre a bunch of students... Having people gunned down is small price to pay in order to feel free of guns

Besides, most students are too broke ass poor to purchase firearms legally. It's the illegal stuff that is cheap. It's not like we are asking the government to subsidize people so everyone has a gun.

If we are concerned about guns, maybe we should have controls on knives, and matches. Those two things can kill people too. Hell, but I can rip the legs off a wooden chair and use it stab someone, maybe we should eliminate wooden chairs as well, and maybe wooden tables for small measure. There are pretty creative ways to kill people, in fact I am looking at some guitar strings right now, I can use those strings as well... sorry if I sound incredibly violent

 

[The Senator]

Allowing a bunch of drunk, inattentive, irrational college students the liberty to carry firearms with them on campus is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.

 

[SuperFerret]

"Guns don't hurt people" is crap. Guns are weapons, they are intended to be used to hurt people. They are not tools like hammers and screwdrivers, as those tools have non-violent uses.